Public hospital requires us to pay deposit before surgery. Can anyone explain?

limster

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BBCWatcher

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Medical providers in Singapore are not required to accept insurers' Letters of Guarantee or insurers' other representations about bill payments. As a courtesy they often do, and the public restructured hospitals are on average more relaxed in this way, but it's at their sole discretion.

Medical providers are more likely to demand immediate bill payment in these circumstances (notable examples):

1. The medical procedure is not medically necessary. Integrated Shield plans all have a medical necessity provision and won't pay claims otherwise.

2. The medical provider is concerned the patient has reached, or will soon reach, a policy limit such as an annual limit.

3. The medical provider fears that a claim will be denied due to a preexisting condition exclusion, with reimbursement only at the MediShield Life level.

4. The provider has/had a past payment collection issue with the same patient or his/her immediate family.

5. The patient is unsubsidized (didn't get a polyclinic or public hospital A&E referral).

6. The patient wants to stay in a high (expensive) ward class.

7. The patient is not a Singaporean citizen.

8. The patient is not a Singapore Permanent Resident.

9. There's a high rate of complications and/or long hospital recuperation period.

10. The care is related to some other coverage exclusion, such as self-harm (suicide attempt, substance abuse, etc. -- although this may change at least for MediShield Life coverage in 2021), certain HIV transmission paths, "avoidable" COVID-19, and some other examples.

11. The patient abused the provider's staff in a previous encounter.
 

reddevil0728

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I can see why he is thinking that way. SG is very small and our info is pretty much connected also so if you are not paying it is super easy to track you down and possibly impose a legal case. Also his argument is him having an insurance in the first place so he is not in a way "not secured".

Although the purpose of insurance is to hedge when we are hospitalized wouldn't it be much better when it offers a much better peace of mind when we are hospitalized. Imagine going to hospital when you are super sick and while thinking there is a possibility that insurance company can cherry pick which of these they will or will not reimburse and then also need to quickly come up with cash to cover deposit that might not be small amount.

not sure about the "connected" part. maybe more and more so, but not fully.

if you are really sick and get warded, I am pretty sure no deposit is required. but those elective 1 maybe.

You do realise, even if they allow you to go cashless, if your claim is assessed to not eligible for cover, they can still ask you to pay back right?

LOG doesn't mean confirm can cover.
 

mansae

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Even private hospital don't ask if i tell them I'm on NTUC enhanced income shield preferred plan.

What type of insurance do you have actually? Feel free to share only if you feel comfortable

For my experience with private hospital, it's only the follow up visits we have to pay 1st claim later. Or could it be surgery is different? I didn't experience surgery though

prushield plus
 

mansae

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Medical providers in Singapore are not required to accept insurers' Letters of Guarantee or insurers' other representations about bill payments. As a courtesy they often do, and the public restructured hospitals are on average more relaxed in this way, but it's at their sole discretion.

Medical providers are more likely to demand immediate bill payment in these circumstances (notable examples):

1. The medical procedure is not medically necessary. Integrated Shield plans all have a medical necessity provision and won't pay claims otherwise.

2. The medical provider is concerned the patient has reached, or will soon reach, a policy limit such as an annual limit.

3. The medical provider fears that a claim will be denied due to a preexisting condition exclusion, with reimbursement only at the MediShield Life level.

4. The provider has/had a past payment collection issue with the same patient or his/her immediate family.

5. The patient is unsubsidized (didn't get a polyclinic or public hospital A&E referral).

6. The patient wants to stay in a high (expensive) ward class.

7. The patient is not a Singaporean citizen.

8. The patient is not a Singapore Permanent Resident.

9. There's a high rate of complications and/or long hospital recuperation period.

10. The care is related to some other coverage exclusion, such as self-harm (suicide attempt, substance abuse, etc. -- although this may change at least for MediShield Life coverage in 2021), certain HIV transmission paths, "avoidable" COVID-19, and some other examples.

11. The patient abused the provider's staff in a previous encounter.


we chose A1, could that be why?
 

limster

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McFadden

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From what I understand. You can ask the insurance agent to provide the policy number and details. If the insurance is valid, hospital will use that.

Ask ur agent to check la. Take so much commission should be able to advise u correctly

medishield so cheap, they dont earn much
 

mansae

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Q14. What happens if the deposit required exceeds the approved eLOG amount?
A14. The excess deposit would have to be borne by the life assured.

https://www.prudential.com.sg/services/claims/prushield-electronic-letter-of-guarantee-elog

its on the prudential website?

Your LOG only for $10k, estimated hospital bill is $200k (unusual for govt hospital unless you are foreigner), deposit will be more than $10k.

I'm still confused, the log is only 10k and the estimated bill is 200k means we have to pay over 100k first? Why is this considered unusual?
 

BBCWatcher

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we chose A1, could that be why?
That's the most expensive public hospital ward class, reason #6 on my informal list. However, Limster likely has identified another contributing factor:

Q14. What happens if the deposit required exceeds the approved eLOG amount?
A14. The excess deposit would have to be borne by the life assured.

https://www.prudential.com.sg/services/claims/prushield-electronic-letter-of-guarantee-elog

its on the prudential website?

Your LOG only for $10k, estimated hospital bill is $200k (unusual for govt hospital unless you are foreigner), deposit will be more than $10k.
The ~$200K bill estimate includes the most expensive hospital room, and the insurer is guaranteeing a mere $10K of that estimated bill....

....And that suggests you might be able to avoid a large deposit, or any deposit, if you request a lower ward class. Ask the hospital if you'd like to pursue that option.
 

newjungle

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On deposit sum, their system will indicate what’s the amount with respect to your estimated bill, you can always suggest a lower amount and see whether it is acceptable to them.

They do want to collect more deposit along the way (extended stay, more treatments due to complication etc), so be prepared.
 

reddevil0728

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I'm still confused, the log is only 10k and the estimated bill is 200k means we have to pay over 100k first? Why is this considered unusual?

I think poster is referring to estimated bill size of 200k for government hosp is unusual
 

limster

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Does your plan cover A1?

So far I have never been asked to pay deposit at SGH. They claim direct from the insurance company (INCOME).

My family members who are under income and go to govt hospital also never pay deposit. When you inform SGH that you are under INCOME, they can apply for LOG on your behalf. The $30k Log from Income will be more than enough to cover the deposit for most normal hospital bills: https://blog.seedly.sg/the-true-cos...re-that-every-singaporean-should-be-aware-of/ though I suspect that if the expected bill is not large, they might not bother.

TS expected bill of $200k is exceptionally high compared to the fees in the seedly link above, so LOG will not be able to cover. So a few have asked, how come his bill is so special for govt hospital, and is he a foreigner?

An insured who is eligible for IncomeShield LOG and is consulting a private specialist from IncomeShield’s Private Specialist Panel, can benefit from an IncomeShield LOG amount of up to $20,000; while it is up to $10,000 for choosing a private specialist who falls outside our panel. When choosing a specialist from a public hospital, the IncomeShield LOG amount is up to $30,000.

The Hospital administrators will assist to make the request on your behalf. If successful, the IncomeShield LOG will be issued to the hospital on the same day.
https://www.income.com.sg/claims/health-and-personal-accident/incomeshield-integrated-plan
 

BBCWatcher

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Mansae has already answered that question:

We are Singaporeans holding pink nric.
An estimated $200K bill size is indeed pretty big for a public hospital but not unprecedented. The A ward and possible non-referral (loss of subsidies) are typical cost increasing factors.

I don’t recall who posted this point, but it’s a very important point: a Letter of Guarantee doesn’t mean the insurance carrier will pay the claim. It just means you might not need to pay cash either up front or immediately upon discharge. The insurance company is free and legally entitled to recover the LoG amount from you if the claim is not a valid one — excluded due to a preexisting condition, for example. So if a ~$200K medical bill is concerning (yes, often) then you either want to have high confidence the insurer will pay the claim (with or without an accepted LoG) or seek to reduce the bill, via a lower cost hospital ward for example.
 
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reddevil0728

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Mansae has already answered that question:


An estimated $200K bill size is indeed pretty big for a public hospital but not unprecedented. The A ward and possible non-referral (loss of subsidies) are typical cost increasing factors.

I don’t recall who posted this point, but it’s a very important point: a Letter of Guarantee doesn’t mean the insurance carrier will pay the claim. It just means you might not need to pay cash either up front or immediately upon discharge. The insurance company is free and legally entitled to recover the LoG amount from you if the claim is not a valid one — excluded due to a preexisting condition, for example. So if a ~$200K medical bill is concerning (yes, often) then you either want to have high confidence the insurer will pay the claim (with or without an accepted LoG) or seek to reduce the bill, via a lower cost hospital ward for example.

I mentioned it above. LOG just means is cashless. But if assessment says it is not eligible claim, still need to pay back.

Log doesn’t mean claim is eligible
 

soneat

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Mansae has already answered that question:


An estimated $200K bill size is indeed pretty big for a public hospital but not unprecedented. The A ward and possible non-referral (loss of subsidies) are typical cost increasing factors.

I don’t recall who posted this point, but it’s a very important point: a Letter of Guarantee doesn’t mean the insurance carrier will pay the claim. It just means you might not need to pay cash either up front or immediately upon discharge. The insurance company is free and legally entitled to recover the LoG amount from you if the claim is not a valid one — excluded due to a preexisting condition, for example. So if a ~$200K medical bill is concerning (yes, often) then you either want to have high confidence the insurer will pay the claim (with or without an accepted LoG) or seek to reduce the bill, via a lower cost hospital ward for example.

I mentioned the point abt the Log as well.

All policyholders should take responsibility and understand what their policy covers.

Since thread starter is with prudential, he should try to see if he can get a pre authorisation (for govt hospital) from prudential.

The following is extracted from Prudential website:
Pre-Authorisation
If you are not eligible for the Letter of Guarantee, inform the hospital admission office to apply for pre-authorisation on your behalf. Upon approval, you can receive cashless medical treatment at our participating private PRUPanel Connect hospitals.
 

mansae

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That's the most expensive public hospital ward class, reason #6 on my informal list. However, Limster likely has identified another contributing factor:


The ~$200K bill estimate includes the most expensive hospital room, and the insurer is guaranteeing a mere $10K of that estimated bill....

....And that suggests you might be able to avoid a large deposit, or any deposit, if you request a lower ward class. Ask the hospital if you'd like to pursue that option.


Thanks for your input. Do you know if the log is fixed at 10k or 20k max regardless of the estimated bill? Even if stay C class, but for major surgeries like heart/neuro related ones, still have to pay a hefty deposit because of the surgery cost itself. Then those who have no money jialat liao.

For us we just relented and paid. But was just quite puzzled because if even govt hospitals make people pay such big amount of deposit when they are 100% covered by insurance, I really don't know how some old or poor people can get surgery :s11:
 

mansae

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I mentioned the point abt the Log as well.

All policyholders should take responsibility and understand what their policy covers.

Since thread starter is with prudential, he should try to see if he can get a pre authorisation from prudential.

The following is extracted from Prudential website:
Pre-Authorisation
If you are not eligible for the Letter of Guarantee, inform the hospital admission office to apply for pre-authorisation on your behalf. Upon approval, you can receive cashless medical treatment at our participating private PRUPanel Connect hospitals.

Hi soneat, we're eligible for log but was told that we can only get 10k and 20k max if they manage to get approval. But the approval takes weeks which we sua cos we couldn't afford to wait and even if we wait, 20k still means we have to fork out a large sum of deposit which makes no difference
 

reddevil0728

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Thanks for your input. Do you know if the log is fixed at 10k or 20k max regardless of the estimated bill? Even if stay C class, but for major surgeries like heart/neuro related ones, still have to pay a hefty deposit because of the surgery cost itself. Then those who have no money jialat liao.

For us we just relented and paid. But was just quite puzzled because if even govt hospitals make people pay such big amount of deposit when they are 100% covered by insurance, I really don't know how some old or poor people can get surgery :s11:

Don’t conflate emergency with elective.
 
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