FYI/A: Bufferbloat 101

[xiaofan]

Strange I have problem posting the links for the JPG.

http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/66626579
I can not see the JPG.

http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/66626579.png

Interesting. The problem seems to be with the Hardwarezone Forum app on my Huawei P20 Android phone. The jpg photos just keep spinning and do not display at all.

On my old iPhone 6S Hardwarezone Forum app, the jpg photos are fine.

 

[hwzlite]

M1

Wow.... nice result almost near to 1GB line speed.
What router are you in , any Qos / SQM tweak applied?

 

[hwzlite]

Wired ethernet connection to switch, then to my pfsense router.
Custom settings, 32 streams up and down. I checked the logs and only 8 streams are downloading for the download test though..

Nice!, on 500mbps plan right? Good enough liao near line speed

 

[miloaisdino]

I think I selected wrongly "Public WiFi" for the test.

Now I test again by the correct "Fibre" selection and the result is bad.
Mac Mini M1 on WiFi (2*2 AX), Chrome browser, Singtel 1Gbps Fibre, Asus RT-AX82U.

Bufferbloat is "D" or "C" even though Quality is A+.
http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/66626339
http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/66626339.png

extremely high bufferbloat on upload. exactly the same for my zte. i will send my results soon. im really starting to suspect the zte now...

 

[xiaofan]

extremely high bufferbloat on upload. exactly the same for my zte. i will send my results soon. im really starting to suspect the zte now...

Yes upload is very bad.

Need to get more results from Singtel users on different ONT/ONR.

1) ONR: Huawei (two models) or Nokia

2) ONT: ZTE, old Ericsson and ALU (now part of Nokia)

 

[Qubicfactor]

extremely high bufferbloat on upload. exactly the same for my zte. i will send my results soon. im really starting to suspect the zte now...

See if can find someone else on the old Ericsson, or maybe this weekend when I can go test at my parent's place which also has the old Ericsson. Other possibility is some equipment at certain exchanges/locations are overloaded.

 

[miloaisdino]

http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/66635727

 

[Mach3.2]

Nice!, on 500mbps plan right? Good enough liao near line speed

Yup, M1 500Mbps plan.

Didn't apply any QoS settings as I find it unnecessary for fibre plans.

 

[Mach3.2]

extremely high bufferbloat on upload. exactly the same for my zte. i will send my results soon. im really starting to suspect the zte now...

I think it's a wifi thing, I'm getting very high spikes in the beginning for upload buffer bloat when I tested using my iPad connected to an AC- LR AP, but it's only in the beginning.

Edit: nvm, I think you're on wired connection, disregard what i said.

Your bufferbloat seem to be consistently high too, could be your router like you said.

 

[BradenHeat]

So wait, what’s the take ways samuraiz message here

I’m just a entry level networking noob

 

[miloaisdino]

I think it's a wifi thing, I'm getting very high spikes in the beginning for upload buffer bloat when I tested using my iPad connected to an AC- LR AP, but it's only in the beginning.

Edit: nvm, I think you're on wired connection, disregard what i said.

Your bufferbloat seem to be consistently high too, could be your router like you said.

its the zte ont, not the router. i use mikrotik hapac2 which is different from xiaofan. this test is via the router tho. i cant test directly from ont at the moment since ppl need to WFH in my home

btw my this upload bufferbloat begins once upload speed exceeds around 400mbps for me. verified this by limiting upload bw manually on my pc. my mikrotik cant handle qos at such high speeds

 

[liangtam]

its the zte ont, not the router. i use mikrotik hapac2 which is different from xiaofan. this test is via the router tho. i cant test directly from ont at the moment since ppl need to WFH in my home

http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/66636345

My 8yo 中兴 ONT

Maybe you have the newer zhong xing ont

 

[TanKianW]

http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/66636345

My 8yo 中兴 ONT

Maybe you have the newer zhong xing ont

Wah, liangtam! 稀客！Last time 的常客。

Not sure if forumers like "chaicka" still lurking around.

 

[xiaofan]

Yes the new ZTE ONT is of different model (ZTE GPON ONR, ZXA10 F620G). It is actually an ONR configured in ONT mode. I replaced my old Ericsson ONT for the new ZTE ONT in Sept 2018 since the Ericsson ONT developed a power contact issue after 7.5 years+ of service.

Test again with wired again using my Windows laptop but upload bufferbloat is still bad at C even though Quality is A+.
1) to Asus RT-AX82U (in AP mode) which is behind Singtel Mesh Router
http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/66637556

2) to direct connect to Singtel Mesh Router.
http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/66637581

 

[Mach3.2]

Wah, liangtam! 稀客！Last time 的常客。

Not sure if forumers like "chaicka" still lurking around.

He is lurking, and very much alive on UBNT's forums.

 

[BradenHeat]

http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/66636345

My 8yo 中兴 ONT

Maybe you have the newer zhong xing ont

Must go buy 4D

Rare master in siol

 

[xiaofan]

Interesting I get better result with Double NAT by setting the AX82U to be the secondary router after the Singtel Mesh Router.

Tested using Mac Mini M1.
ZTE ONT -- Singtel Mesh Router -- RT-AX82U (Double NAT) --wireless -- Mac Mini M1.

http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/66638229

 

[miloaisdino]

http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/66636345

My 8yo 中兴 ONT

Maybe you have the newer zhong xing ont

i used this many years ago until singtel called me to say they will come to my place to replace it for no apparent reason. lol

but then again this result (bufferbloat A+) is also not entirely unexpected since bandwidth limiting is done at the OLT side, so no buffering will occur on the zte ont if network speeds are only around 500mbps (no where near gigabit!).

if zte onr performance was good, i see no reason why singtel would choose to deploy it as ont instead. probably this onr (new zte ont) had performance issues and wouldn't work well on 2gbps plans or 1gbps with nat. this leaves me to suspect the zte has serious issues

alternatively it could be due different brands of olt used in different areas (alu vs huawei). alu ont was usually paired with alu olt (same brand) back then. if someone can produce a 500mbps ish result with bad upload bufferbloat it will confirm this case

 

[xiaofan]

Okay, let's say certain ONT on certain ISP, and some routers, may have issues with bufferbloat score of "C" or "D", is there a real problem in reality?

Take example of SingTel new ZTE ONT, the upload gets bufferbloat issues. Is there a real impact? In most use cases, download data are much more than the upload. And take note upload speed is still good in the tests.

From what I read, QoS and SQM are usually doing more damages to symmetrical 1Gbps and above Fibre internet services, as typical home routers can not handle QoS/SQM properly at 1Gbps, including Ubiquiti/MikroTik.

 

[Qubicfactor]

Okay, let's say certain ONT on certain ISP, and some routers, may have issues with bufferbloat score of "C" or "D", is there a real problem in reality?

Take example of SingTel new ZTE ONT, the upload gets bufferbloat issues. Is there a real impact? In most use cases, download data are much more than the upload. And take note upload speed is still good in the tests.

From what I read, QoS and SQM are usually doing more damages to symmetrical 1Gbps and above Fibre internet services, as typical home routers can not handle QoS/SQM properly at 1Gbps, including Ubiquiti/MikroTik.

Impact for bufferbloat on uploads are more of you noticing it taking longer to load websites coz the request to the server to send you data is delayed. If doing videoconferencing, other ppl may notice you are lagging since your vide stream to them is not real time but buffered. Bandwidth isnt always everything.

That said, the issue might be something that is tolerable to some and not to others, coz the feeling of lag is still somewhat subjective, although measurable.

I would think a badly implemented QoS/SQM solution is far more harmful than that any supposed harm done on underpowered home routers on gigabit lines, coz the vast majority of ppl dont saturate their connections all the time. Personally I would rather sacrifice some underutilized bandwidth for better latency.