FYI/A: Bufferbloat 101

[xiaofan]

but its still quite weird that singtel upload is higher than download

Actually Singtel itself is rather symmetrical for download and upload. But then it is possible that the speed test server may skew the results since different test servers may use different methods for testing.

With my Huawei AX3 Pro wireless repeater setup, DSL Reports seem to be giving much slower download speed compared to Ookla. Upload speed is also a bit slower than Ookla but not too much. Therefore you see the discrepancy in the DSL Reports speed test.

 

[miloaisdino]

i gonna check the zte ont also and see if i can apply upload qos there instead.

 

[xiaofan]

i gonna check the zte ont also and see if i can apply upload qos there instead.

Haha, you are going to hack into the ZTE ONT?

 

[hwzlite]

but its still quite weird that singtel upload is higher than download

Actually Singtel itself is rather symmetrical for download and upload. But then it is possible that the speed test server may skew the results since different test servers may use different methods for testing.

With my Huawei AX3 Pro wireless repeater setup, DSL Reports seem to be giving much slower download speed compared to Ookla. Upload speed is also a bit slower than Ookla but not too much. Therefore you see the discrepancy in the DSL Reports speed test.

This is usually the expected behavior for untamed devices cos dslspeed is excuting upload&download concurrently to test the effect of bufferbloat (lag) under load at the same time. Ookla just test upload & download separately.

 

[xiaofan]

This is usually the expected behavior for untamed devices cos dslspeed is excuting upload&download concurrently to test the effect of bufferbloat (lag) under load at the same time. Ookla just test upload & download separately.

It seems to me DSL Reports speedtest is still carrying out download first and then upload later.

Probably the test servers are just not as fast as Ookla for SingTel users at times. As per Milo, Singtel may not have good peering with SoftLayer.

 

[miloaisdino]

It seems to me DSL Reports speedtest is still carrying out download first and then upload later.

Probably the test servers are just not as fast as Ookla for SingTel users at times. As per Milo, Singtel may not have good peering with SoftLayer.

singtel peering with singtel seems to have improved as im no longer getting 40ms idle ping to softlayer

 

[hwzlite]

It seems to me DSL Reports speedtest is still carrying out download first and then upload later.
.

FAQ: How does the test work?

The browser based speed test downloads "files" and uploads parts of the same files, to remote servers, in parallel, measuring the speed.


The most accurate will be the old-sckool saki RRUL test suite >> RRUL Rogues Gallery

 

[hwzlite]

singtel peering with singtel seems to have improved as im no longer getting 40ms idle ping to softlayer

Indeed looks good, according to collective test from SG RIPE Atlas probes >>
Traceroute measurement to 161.202.17.29 (SoftLayer SG - dslreports.com) , most ~6ms RTT

 

[xiaofan]

FAQ: How does the test work?

The browser based speed test downloads "files" and uploads parts of the same files, to remote servers, in parallel, measuring the speed.

The most accurate will be the old-sckool saki RRUL test suite >> RRUL Rogues Gallery

Thanks. The FAQ is clear.

I seems to come across command line tool for DSL Reports speed test, but I could not find it now. I prefer to use command line tools to get rid of the effects of Browsers.

But on the other hand, probably I should stick to wired test for bufferbloat as wireless test results are not that consistent for me, sometimes A and sometimes C or worse. Then for wired it is consistently C or worse.

 

[miloaisdino]

Haha, you are going to hack into the ZTE ONT?

i currently have ssh access into the ont. will attempt to apply qos by cli commands

after fixing bufferbloat, i will attempt to allow singtel tv on another port of ont, and enable multiport internet if possible

 

[xiaofan]

I seems to come across command line tool for DSL Reports speed test, but I could not find it now. I prefer to use command line tools to get rid of the effects of Browsers.

The CLI version should be here. But now DSLReports website seems to be down from my side.
https://www.dslreports.com/forum/speedtestbinary

 

[Elijahonli]

Nice! What router are you in , any Qos / SQM tweak applied?

erm ASUS AC66U, no QoS/SQM tweaks applied

 

[miloaisdino]

command used on zte:
switchtst -spratelmt eth0 2 1 860000 1

speedtest.net gives ~800mbps download and upload. cheapest qos solution without need for powerful router

i can push the speed higher but then the bufferbloat will only be A and not A+ (with loaded latency on upload side around 60ms max)

 

[xiaofan]

command used on zte:
switchtst -spratelmt eth0 2 1 860000 1

speedtest.net gives ~800mbps download and upload. cheapest qos solution without need for powerful router


i can push the speed higher but then the bufferbloat will only be A and not A+ (with loaded latency on upload side around 60ms max)

Nice one.

So indeed this is trading a bit of speed for better latency.

 

[miloaisdino]

Nice one.

So indeed this is trading a bit of speed for better latency.

yep. funny behaviour is that the moment upload reaches 900mbps, the buffer gets filled and cant be cleared in time, causing those super high upload latencies even if upload drops to lower speed later. so rate limit has to be set much lower so that upload doesnt get a chance to burst to 900mbps before it gets throttled.

unfortunately zte only allows rate limit of download speed only or both upload and download, no option for upload only

 

[xiaofan]

BTW, enabling QoS bandwidth limiter will make my RT-AX82U performs very badly. Apparently the Tri-Core 1.5GHz Arm Cortex A7 CPU can not handle QoS at high speed. And it does not help the bufferbloat either.

Without QoS, wired speed, Windows 10 Ookla SpeedTest App

Enable QoS Band limiter (download 1000Mbps, upload 500Mbps) for the Acer Windows 10 laptop

Bufferbloat is now even worse at F.
http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/66694808

 

[xiaofan]

So your MyRepublic 1Gbps connection side is very good.

What about your Singtel 1Gbps connection (bridged ONR)? It would be interested to know the performance from the Singtel ONR users. Thanks.

 

[xiaofan]

So wait, what’s the take ways samuraiz message here

I’m just a entry level networking noob

Based on the limited results so far, here are my observations
1) M1 and MyRepublic are good

2) Starhub users seem to need some tweaks to get better results.

3) Singtel new ZTE ONT users have problems with the ZTE ONT, with poor bufferbloat performance in upload. Rate limit the ZTE ONT (hacking into ZTE) may fix the issue but then the speed limit will be about 800Mbps.

We probably need more results. I expect Viewquest users to be similar to M1 and MyRepublic.

I will be interesting to get more results from the following users.
1) Singtel Huawei ONR users without bridging, Whizcomms with the default ONR may perform similar. I am not so sure if Nokia ONR will perform similar or not.

2) Singtel Huawei ONR users with bridging port, Whizcomms users with ONT configuration of the ONR will probably perform similar.

I tend to think Huawei ONR will be okay, unlike the Singtel ZTE ONT (ONR configured as ONT),

 

[miloaisdino]

Based on the limited results so far, here are my observations
1) M1 and MyRepublic are good

2) Starhub users seem to need some tweaks to get better results.

3) Singtel new ZTE ONT users have problems with the ZTE ONT, with poor bufferbloat performance in upload. Rate limit the ZTE ONT (hacking into ZTE) may fix the issue but then the speed limit will be about 800Mbps.

We probably need more results. I expect Viewquest users to be similar to M1 and MyRepublic.

I will be interesting to get more results from the following users.
1) Singtel Huawei ONR users without bridging, Whizcomms with the default ONR may perform similar. I am not so sure if Nokia ONR will perform similar or not.

2) Singtel Huawei ONR users with bridging port, Whizcomms users with ONT configuration of the ONR will probably perform similar.

I tend to think Huawei ONR will be okay, unlike the Singtel ZTE ONT (ONR configured as ONT),

I read that huawei ont/onr typically has no problems with bufferbloat unless upstream is congested, and their inbuilt ratelimiting function is "broken" as it creates more bufferbloat unlike zte.

 

[xiaofan]

The CLI version should be here. But now DSLReports website seems to be down from my side.
https://www.dslreports.com/forum/speedtestbinary

Unfortunately it seems to me the CLI version has been abandoned and there are no source available.

The x86_64 macOS version does not work under my Mac Mini M1 (ARM64) with Rosetta 2 emulation.

mcuee@mcuees-Mac-mini speedtest % ./dslrcli-darwin-amd64
zsh: segmentation fault ./dslrcli-darwin-amd64