(GPGT)Espresso machine hoot

[tremor]

You can find the Lelit machines in Taka, I think they are from Boncafe. Not sure whether you'll be able to pull a shot though.



What were your considerations when buying the Appartamento?

I'm considering to get the Cronometro.

Cronometer I don't think really that much of a upgrade, its just a timer.

And it uses much more space. Apartamento is much smaller and cheaper. I don't think taste got difference between cronometer and apartamento anyways.

 

[chobo_kel]

Cronometer I don't think really that much of a upgrade, its just a timer.

And it uses much more space. Apartamento is much smaller and cheaper. I don't think taste got difference between cronometer and apartamento anyways.

I think the Cronometer has a PID which the Apartamento does not have? That's probably the main reason why I'm looking at the Cronometer instead.

 

[wook2000]

I think the Cronometer has a PID which the Apartamento does not have? That's probably the main reason why I'm looking at the Cronometer instead.

HX machines are unable to take advantage of PID features.. the instability is inherent in it heat exchanger thermosyphon design of the group head. PID will work best in dual boiler or saturated grouphead design..save your money and go with the basic hx design available.

 

[codling]

I must say, FCC is super quick. Ordered my bezzera bz10 on 6 Jan around 5pm, courier called me on 7 Jan 12.30 to inform me of machine delivery at 4pm.

First impressions:
1. Machine start up and getting up to brew ready pressure is faster than I expected. Though I waited a while longer for the group head to be warmed up.
2. It’s so shiny!
3. While the machine is not quiet, it sounds quieter than my BE.
4. BB005 grinder a bit loud. The hopper lid is not airtight, its not even snug. There are 2 tiny holes at the bottom of the hopper. Grinds seems fluffy though.
5. Height of group head and drainage tray is quite short. There’s option to remove the tray but it means the relief valve will cause a mess when you are done with your shot.
6. Bz10 factory setting of espresso extraction around 10-11bars.
7. There’s an option for FCC to help tune the grinder, so it seems to work ok for me. I only had one cup to test.
8. The steam so powderful! Not used to the speed and power.

Gonna see if tmw morning it’s able to heat up quick enough to make a cup before going to office.

 

[chanvh]

I must say, FCC is super quick. Ordered my bezzera bz10 on 6 Jan around 5pm, courier called me on 7 Jan 12.30 to inform me of machine delivery at 4pm.

congrats you made the leap. I think I have to hold decision for now and may at the end still opt for a Lelit. As for now my contribution has been locked into the Niche Zero. So might reconsider once the grinder has delivered. months ago, if I hadn't chanced upon this forum - I'm gonna go with the full BZ bundle but well... that boat has sailed now I have already put in for a Niche Zero.

Even if I got another grinder like Eureka or BB or Quamar I'd have sold it by mid-year anyway. I hope you enjoy your new shiny Bezzera, they do have beautiful built.

I wonder if anyone else here has a Bezzera and was it pulling decent shots?

 

[chobo_kel]

HX machines are unable to take advantage of PID features.. the instability is inherent in it heat exchanger thermosyphon design of the group head. PID will work best in dual boiler or saturated grouphead design..save your money and go with the basic hx design available.

So from what I gather, the main issue is that you the brew temp is a bit of a guesswork, as the PID of the steam boiler does not directly corelate with brew temperature. And the group head will reach near boil water temperatures too, which you will need to do a flush to cool it down before making a shot. But brew temperature is consistent throughout the shot

 

[DriftKing]

congrats you made the leap. I think I have to hold decision for now and may at the end still opt for a Lelit. As for now my contribution has been locked into the Niche Zero. So might reconsider once the grinder has delivered. months ago, if I hadn't chanced upon this forum - I'm gonna go with the full BZ bundle but well... that boat has sailed now I have already put in for a Niche Zero.

Even if I got another grinder like Eureka or BB or Quamar I'd have sold it by mid-year anyway. I hope you enjoy your new shiny Bezzera, they do have beautiful built.

I wonder if anyone else here has a Bezzera and was it pulling decent shots?

Had the Strega before, very fun machine to use. Actually if I had taken the leap to mod the steam pressure I might not have sold it for the LMLM...maybe along the way may return back to a lever machine (Londinium?)

Really a buy and forget grinder is the way to go if we are to stay long in the espresso machine game. Aiming for my end game grinder to just end all. Titus grinder sounds yummy but the price..

From how I read about Bezzera's proprietary groupheads, they are also electronically heated up? (instead of water siphoning like traditional E61). They should heat up pretty quickly, of course some would say get it fully warmed up will bring even better heat stability during shot, but all we have is just that one cup daily, I wouldnt fuss much about it, unless we have exceptional taste memory.

More importantly be proud and feel good of owning the machine!

 

[wook2000]

So from what I gather, the main issue is that you the brew temp is a bit of a guesswork, as the PID of the steam boiler does not directly corelate with brew temperature. And the group head will reach near boil water temperatures too, which you will need to do a flush to cool it down before making a shot. But brew temperature is consistent throughout the shot

Yup that is right..The group head will affect the brew temperature greatly because all water has to pass thru the group head. Too shot a flush the brew water going to the coffee will be too hot, too long a flush cools the group head considerably and water going to the coffee will be too cool.

Rocket machine tend to have a "dragon" style group head, meaning it over heats considerably and requires a shorter flush vs other brands.

The lelit mara latest model HX E61 is more interesting in this aspect because the temp probes are nearer the group head, meaning the boiler pressure will be constantly changing to stabilise the group head temp via the thermosyphon group, meaning lesser flactuations on the GH.

Understanding your specific E61 grouphead is key, brew temperature will never be consistent for HX machine because of the changing dynamics of the grouphead temperature. HX temperature signature is more like a declining temperature profile, simliar to Lever machine, starts hot end cool.

 

[purpleberry]

congrats you made the leap. I think I have to hold decision for now and may at the end still opt for a Lelit. As for now my contribution has been locked into the Niche Zero. So might reconsider once the grinder has delivered. months ago, if I hadn't chanced upon this forum - I'm gonna go with the full BZ bundle but well... that boat has sailed now I have already put in for a Niche Zero.

Even if I got another grinder like Eureka or BB or Quamar I'd have sold it by mid-year anyway. I hope you enjoy your new shiny Bezzera, they do have beautiful built.

I wonder if anyone else here has a Bezzera and was it pulling decent shots?

Dont go for the bundle deals as your Niche Zero is better than Bezzera BB005. Although mine still works well, it still retains about 0.2gms of coffee inside.

 

[purpleberry]

Had the Strega before, very fun machine to use. Actually if I had taken the leap to mod the steam pressure I might not have sold it for the LMLM...maybe along the way may return back to a lever machine (Londinium?)

There was a group at HB forums who wanted to compare lever machines including Londinium and Strega but they canceled the meeting, unfortunately. This was like 1-2 years ago.

 

[DriftKing]

There was a group at HB forums who wanted to compare lever machines including Londinium and Strega but they canceled the meeting, unfortunately. This was like 1-2 years ago.

I think I'd remember that, was it Jim (the person single handedly put Strega into the limelight) who was persuaded to do a comparison?

I was amused by Londinium's choice to go Hybrid Lever (somewhat similar to what Strega is designed for?) a Pump assisted lever machine. Didn't read in depth of the science behind it, but in the end is it 'Better' than traditional Levers - La Pavoni, Olympia Cremina, hence the change?

 

[KoChi]

anybody can recommend me weighing scale? the current scale I had the weight keep changing

 

[wahjohreno]

anybody can recommend me weighing scale? the current scale I had the weight keep changing

These 2 scales have been pretty faultless for years.

The Brewista I’ve had since 2016 and the Acaia Pearl since 2017.

My Brewista is the first gen, so it suffers from sticky rubber coating. Current gen doesn’t have that problem. Current gen also has rechargeable batteries, although I have zero issues with mine which runs on AAA’s.

The Acaia Pearl has been perfect. Not a single issue. Battery life is a month (daily use) before needing to recharge.

 

[KoChi]

wow Acaia Pearl is really expensive hahaha its 270 at amazon.. Brewista too big for my coffee machine..

very nice coffee corner you have

 

[wahjohreno]

wow Acaia Pearl is really expensive hahaha its 270 at amazon.. Brewista too big for my coffee machine..

very nice coffee corner you have

Actually the Brewista was the only one besides the Acaia Lunar that fits under my machine.

I bought it when I wasn’t willing to spend so much on a scale. I’m just waiting for it to spoil before buying a new one. But it doesn’t look like it will any time soon.

The Brewista is less than 2cm tall.

 

[DriftKing]

wow Acaia Pearl is really expensive hahaha its 270 at amazon.. Brewista too big for my coffee machine..

very nice coffee corner you have

Bought before some cheapo scale, eats CR battery within a week even when off. Very unstable as well. Bought the Acaia and used it for 4 years already. Think it'll last much longer still..

 

[purpleberry]

I think I'd remember that, was it Jim (the person single handedly put Strega into the limelight) who was persuaded to do a comparison?

I was amused by Londinium's choice to go Hybrid Lever (somewhat similar to what Strega is designed for?) a Pump assisted lever machine. Didn't read in depth of the science behind it, but in the end is it 'Better' than traditional Levers - La Pavoni, Olympia Cremina, hence the change?

For home-based pump+lever machine, it's only Strega and Londonium at this point. I read up quite a bit years ago and it was something to do with a combination of pre-infusion benefits plus varying strengths of pressure that brings out the best of both worlds in a coffee machine. The known cafes in Italy also operate using a lever machine. To be honest, you can just visit any cafes there and it is way better than any starbucks, coffee bean here.

I didn't follow up with the Strega HB group. I think Jim wasn't involved in the meet up but knowing Londinium costs twice more, maybe its safer for my wallet not to know the result lol

 

[testerjp]

Read abit.

In summary, Reiss who was the founder from Londinium used to remark that Strega was a disaster and levers don't work without using thermosyphon heating control and a pump. Then he later made the Londonium R which he claimed to have a lot of remarkable improvements, also does not have the thermosyphon system and has a pump.

Strega has a microswitch actuator to control the pump at will to fill the chamber as you like. Meaning you can extract from 3 to iirc 10 bars pressure as you please. Londonium R iirc works slightly different in this, there's another pressure switch that set at 3 bars to stop the pump, so you can't experiment as much or as freely with different pressure, which has a direct impact to how it transform the flavours. From this, it's already quite unfair for the Londonium to really compete heads on. Some also remark that back to back extraction on the Londonium have heating stability issues, especially in the original older designs which were mostly designed for plumb in.
Last is the Londonium, needs a full hour to heat up. You won't want to let it on 24/7 because of power consumption and the electrical parts have a lifespan. There's zero local support and all help must be obtained from Londinium directly, so you must DIY do all the repairs and servicing.

The Londinium used to look more awesome with the wooden handles, but that is now also available on the Stregas. Not easy to get the Strega, my colleague wanted to get one last yr but it was always oos.

 

[nubbyyy]

I must say, FCC is super quick. Ordered my bezzera bz10 on 6 Jan around 5pm, courier called me on 7 Jan 12.30 to inform me of machine delivery at 4pm.

First impressions:
1. Machine start up and getting up to brew ready pressure is faster than I expected. Though I waited a while longer for the group head to be warmed up.
2. It’s so shiny!
3. While the machine is not quiet, it sounds quieter than my BE.
4. BB005 grinder a bit loud. The hopper lid is not airtight, its not even snug. There are 2 tiny holes at the bottom of the hopper. Grinds seems fluffy though.
5. Height of group head and drainage tray is quite short. There’s option to remove the tray but it means the relief valve will cause a mess when you are done with your shot.
6. Bz10 factory setting of espresso extraction around 10-11bars.
7. There’s an option for FCC to help tune the grinder, so it seems to work ok for me. I only had one cup to test.
8. The steam so powderful! Not used to the speed and power.

Gonna see if tmw morning it’s able to heat up quick enough to make a cup before going to office.

Congrats on your new machine and welcome to the dark side What's the warm-up time like?

Dont go for the bundle deals as your Niche Zero is better than Bezzera BB005. Although mine still works well, it still retains about 0.2gms of coffee inside.

0.2grams is pretty good rentention level isn't it? Considering that the gold standard Niche is 0.1grams

 

[wook2000]

I have used both the BB005 and Niche, no comparison the Niche is much better.

The Niche is way better in terms of usability, consistency and workflow compared to the BB005, the BB005 has easily 3g of retention or more. Most of the grinds are stuck at the mouth of the exit chute you to remove the chute plate to access and clean up the stale grounds. There are some mods which you can do to make it easier to remove the retention, search around "BB005 3d printed mod"