Roboadvisor: Stashaway vs Syfe

[WindBoi]

hitg bk @ Edwus obviously!

ETFs Or Unit Trusts? The True Costs You Need To Know Before Making Your Choice >here​

https://www.syfe.com/magazine/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/14-aug-1.png

All return figures are as of 30 June 2021
The expense ratios for funds assumes them to be index funds. Active mutual funds can have expense ratios 2 – 3 times the expense ratio indicated above
*Transaction and hedging costs are estimated to be 0.5% on average based on Lumint data.
**Mutual fund bid-offer spread estimated to be approximately 0.10% based on data from National Bank Financial
^Dividend withholding tax taken as 30% for US ETFs and 15% for Irish domiciled UCIT ETF/funds. Syfe’s Equity100 dividend yield is 1.25% compared to ~1.85% estimated for a comparable 100% equity portfolio using funds
^^Syfe’s FX conversion fee is 0.09%. Funds may pay higher FX costs through banks

Expense ratio: Why it matters​

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/7...Iv3qh3__e7LltM7m9BeSA-aNL1AuizdlSCNB1WkoahQzaThe expense ratio tells you a great deal about your ETF or unit trust, but it doesn’t show the full costs you’ll pay. Transaction costs and other fees such as brokerage commissions or sales charges are not included in a fund’s expense ratio.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/J...ipi6aWANqEzkTIOySo7djgHP1yMO1IiDoB7fM6J6Edc3A


https://www.eventbrite.sg/e/an-in-d...s-tickets-167027252007?aff=ebdssbonlinesearch
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/threads/syfe-reit.6196988/page-18#post-135912776

There are some things weird

1. They left out the biggest elephant in the room which is that they are using estate tax inefficient ETF. And they should officially address why using US-domiciled ETF is not such a big estate tax issue.
2. They are comparing against a 100% equity fund. We don't typically hedge for equity. We just use different currency denomination. The underlying is still the same. So that hedging cost should not be there at all.
3. Even if hedging does come in, on Syfe's side they should include the losses purely from not hedging!
4. The TER of the funds of the 100% equity UT portfolio is higher because it is trying to be smarter. It is not a likely for like comparison. Basically if we were to implement it, we could have just use institutional class that is 10 basis points.

Just some things to think about.

 

[dappermen]

I realise why didnt syfe put in their usual mgt fees of 0.65-0.5% too??

Even if The chart / eg in the article shows calculations based on a sample $100,000 investment. In that case, Syfe's management fees is 0.4%.

oh the PLatform Fee is 0.65% management fees for Syfe and a platform fee of 0.60% for another fund platform in Singapore.

 

[Mr. Wood]

funny be4 these robos, no one seems to talk abt estate duties. agents and advisors happily selling and selling and ppl oso happily trading stocks, reits, etfs in US. suddenly with robos, estate duties, fees, foreign exchange suddenly become a big issue.

not saying it is not a problem, but i wonder why surface these issues only now?
like 10yrs ago agents happy happy sell ILP. now coming to maturity den suddenly tell u all the problems cannot claim dis how come lost money....

 

[dappermen]

Btw my Sa dropped more than 6% after the recent re-opt, how abt yours??

 

[paradigm paralysis]

Btw my Sa dropped more than 6% after the recent re-opt, how abt yours??

Just checked mine. Abt -5%

 

[dappermen]

To me even a 20-30% stk mkt drop is Nothing but this is nt my holdings of indv stks….

Robo hardly has such huge drop (covid situatn at beginning of 2020 aside)

To make matters worse, the robo Sa wasnt able to break thru at all since beginning of yr 2021 for so long, nvm
Yet it dropped by so much after a re-opt

 

[Okenba]

To me even a 20-30% stk mkt drop is Nothing but this is nt even stks….

Robo hardly has such huge drop (covid situatn at beginning of 2020 aside)

To make matters worse, the robo Sa wasnt able to break thru at all since beginning of yr 2021 for so long, nvm
Yet it dropped by so much after a re-opt

What do you mean this is not stocks? ETFs are just a basket of stocks.
Robos are not some separate, different asset class from the stock market...
However much the stock market can drop, the ETF can drop as well.

In fact, Robos like SA are less diversified than the whole stock market and therefore may drop even more than the market. (Of course, if they guess right, it may also gain more than the overall market...)

 

[twosix]

kweb is the culprit, with so many negative news about china and their emperor's jealous of the rich. lucky i pulled out when they announce the recent re-opt. sigh...

 

[twosix]

ETF, UT, all have stock plays....

 

[dappermen]

After the recent re-opt…. Sa has lower % in kweb holdings

 

[twosix]

Straits Times 20 Aug 2021:

 

[twosix]

no leh... it went up:

 

[ceestudent]

My SA36 ytd is -7% because of kweb keep dropping. Not sure should hold or withdraw all. I should withdraw before re-opt last time.
Luckily not really a lot inside.

 

[jywy2005]

My money-weighted return after 1 year at 30% risk level (since July 2020) is now 2.46%. Really pathetic. Used to be 8% before te-opt.

 

[dappermen]

no leh... it went up:

Sorry for highest risk it went dwn and it is not kweb who has pulled sa dwn

 

[dappermen]

wont b attendg the KraneShares CiO webinar : Deep Dive into China and Chinese Tech 24aug

 

[twosix]

 

[Sambuca78]

My SA 36% since beginning of 2021 is now -12.36% Money weight return.

 

[dappermen]

On bhalf o Sa i thank u for your patience!!!!


Eeeeeew my sg income pf once it bcame zero% last yr i instantly sell it off after 1yr or so!!!!

Sa is a inconspicuous robber, i felt! Nt even a best description

 

[Kojo0403]

interestingly their Stashaway SG income portfolio is doing much better than any of their global portfolio this year