Roboadvisor: Stashaway vs Syfe

[Thoreldan]

Every month when salary comes,just put a fixed amt in one of the recommended uk etf..not too difficult right ?

 

[chompsnoms]

coz marketing and social media brainwashing influencers.

but when it comes to robos like them, size matters. these 3 seems to be able to raise funds frm big boys, thus enjoying economics of scale. the others like auotwealth, kristal, not so sure. seems to be too small.
the others tied to banks and traditional brokers are not too bad as well. juz be aware of their fees and their customer service.

actually for poems i went to chat with the cust serv to ask about their smart portfolio and they were quite helpful la. just wondering what other investors here think. they invest in UTs with 3 risk profiles. their approach is not the super risky kind. the highest risk one last 1 yr returns is 8% annualised. seems quite legit. at least for me la cause i'm looking to diversify from my stocks portfolio. other robos the reviews are like half half so i really don't know whether can invest with them or not.

 

[chompsnoms]

oh ya their fees are 0.5% p.a. that's all. ok leh. are there other fees that other robos charge? can share?

 

[init00]

Every month when salary comes,just put a fixed amt in one of the recommended uk etf..not too difficult right ?

what is the recommended UK ETF that you are referring to?

 

[ohceeek]

depends yr risk level. if 5% acceptable to u, is not bad alrdy.

actually for poems i went to chat with the cust serv to ask about their smart portfolio and they were quite helpful la. just wondering what other investors here think. they invest in UTs with 3 risk profiles. their approach is not the super risky kind. the highest risk one last 1 yr returns is 8% annualised. seems quite legit. at least for me la cause i'm looking to diversify from my stocks portfolio. other robos the reviews are like half half so i really don't know whether can invest with them or not.

for fresh grad student, is 5% returns good for me?? still a newbie here, was looking at SMART syfe dbs portfolio etc lol

 

[Thoreldan]

what is the recommended UK ETF that you are referring to?

IWDA -> MSCI World (YTD 18.04%)
VWRA -> FTSE All-World (YTD 16.63%)
CIND -> DOW30 equivalent (YTD 16.94%)
CNDX -> NASDAQ100 equivalent (YTD 19.81%)
CSPX -> S&P500 equivalent (YTD 21.44%)
IUIT -> S&P500/IT (YTD 22.07%)
IUHC -> S&P500/Healthcare (YTD 14.42%)
etc...

take your pick

By the way I have nothing against all the robo platform. Just opening up some ideas for people who may want a little more hands-on approach in their investment journey.

 

[Okenba]

oh ya their fees are 0.5% p.a. that's all. ok leh. are there other fees that other robos charge? can share?

Does the 0.5 include the fees of the UTs? Or just what they charge to maintain your portfolio.

Typically UTs have their own fees that they charge, and some also have trailer fees (otherwise known as kickbacks) where part of these fees are paid to the platform through which you buy the UT.

It is good that you are trying to find out more. Don't rush into things just because people show you nice numbers. No one cares more about your money than youself.

 

[dappermen]

what is the recommended UK ETF that you are referring to?

Cannot discuss other topics here(need to stick to topic) but the etf u wanna r discussed here: instead

https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/threads/iwda-vwra-isac-etf-some-of-the-best-etf.5781627/page-184

 

[Thoreldan]

for fresh grad student, is 5% returns good for me?? still a newbie here, was looking at SMART syfe dbs portfolio etc lol

5% annual return? nobody knows if it's good for you, other than yourself.
but 5% is pretty trashy if you ask me.

 

[dappermen]

Indeed Anything less than a 7% pa is comsidered low to me too

And dont jump into it
Just for the short term benefits:
Invest* in any Thematic Portfolio before 25 October 2021, and we’ll manage your funds for free.
StashAway
1 month’s free investing on funds of up to $3,000 SGD - TP1MONTH
3 months’ free investing on funds of $3,000 SGD or more - TP3MONTHS
6 months’ free investing on funds of $10,000 SGD or more - TP6MONTHS
9 months’ free investing on f

 

[Okenba]

for fresh grad student, is 5% returns good for me?? still a newbie here, was looking at SMART syfe dbs portfolio etc lol

Everyone has different philosophies of investing. Best to read up on your own and come to your own conviction about it.

5% is not high. Put in CPF SA and you already get 4%. And that is risk free and will never go lower. Investing on our own is never risk free and will have ups and downs and even times when you may experience loss of capital.

 

[Okenba]

IWDA -> MSCI World (YTD 18.04%)
VWRA -> FTSE All-World (YTD 16.63%)
CIND -> DOW30 equivalent (YTD 16.94%)
CNDX -> NASDAQ100 equivalent (YTD 19.81%)
CSPX -> S&P500 equivalent (YTD 21.44%)
IUIT -> S&P500/IT (YTD 22.07%)
IUHC -> S&P500/Healthcare (YTD 14.42%)
etc...

take your pick

By the way I have nothing against all the robo platform. Just opening up some ideas for people who may want a little more hands-on approach in their investment journey.

Some folks pick robos because they think they don't know enough to invest on their own. But with the robos we have, I think one needs to know more before investing in Robos.

Conversely, buying into VWRA or IWDA needs even less knowledge and just a conviction to stick to the plan.

It is more likely that those picking robos will make mistakes and encounter losses, while those who stick to investing into VWRA or IWDA every month will probably come out ahead in the long run. (Assuming they stick to the plan and buy every month.)

Most of the Robos in SG are just high tech fund managers and there is research to show that a simple index fund reflecting the market will outperform most active funds in the long run.

 

[Mr. Wood]

oh ya their fees are 0.5% p.a. that's all. ok leh. are there other fees that other robos charge? can share?

other robos may hav sales fees, platform fees, must be aware. not necessarily means only one time annual fee is good. depends.
lets say u DCA $100 evymonth. robos like syfe and stashaway (and many other robos) charge fees evy quarter. as the funds grow bigger, u pay more. at the start, very cheap cos u pay only $7, but at the 10th yr, u will pay $72/yr. in comparison, if only charge a sales charge, u know u will pay the same fee evy time.

 

[Mr. Wood]

for fresh grad student, is 5% returns good for me?? still a newbie here, was looking at SMART syfe dbs portfolio etc lol

diff folks diff strokes.
"is xxx a good investment or not" is not the correct qn. shud start ask urself wht is yr objective and desired risk/reward ratio.
$1mil 5% returns $50k/yr can semi retire alrdy
conversely a low income earner <$1000 cannot afford to pay rent, 100% returns oso not enuff.
oso, mayb $100 throw into bitcoin to some1 is not a big deal. but to u mayb $100 lose will not die, but u will lose sleep. is it worth it?

u can start by attending the various robos webinars and see how they invest and whether is it suitable for u.

or u can start listening to some of the investing basics planning here.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC249ZmHRDnxWyEFSOVjd8rglast time i learnt quite a bit frm him when i first started investing.


and btw, as a newbie, pls check yr own emotions. dun anyhow trust online "gurus" selling courses. dun be tempted no matter how much returns they say. they will lead to more harm than good.

 

[twosix]

it's good to invest some of ur salary wisely when young. i did that and i'm already retired in my 50s.

 

[twosix]

diff folks diff strokes.
"is xxx a good investment or not" is not the correct qn. shud start ask urself wht is yr objective and desired risk/reward ratio.
$1mil 5% returns $50k/yr can semi retire alrdy

if the 5% returns are in dividends, then yes, $50k into the pocket w/o touching the shares. if it is share prices increase by 5%, u won't get to enjoy it unless u sell the shares, and then u will have nothing the following year.

 

[tesarise]

if the 5% returns are in dividends, then yes, $50k into the pocket w/o touching the shares. if it is share prices increase by 5%, u won't get to enjoy it unless u sell the shares, and then u will have nothing the following year.

errr. just sell 50k worth so that its back to $1mil?

 

[Okenba]

if the 5% returns are in dividends, then yes, $50k into the pocket w/o touching the shares. if it is share prices increase by 5%, u won't get to enjoy it unless u sell the shares, and then u will have nothing the following year.

Not really.
If the 5% is share price increase, you sell the 50k and end up the same as 5% dividends.

Say 10,000 shares of $100 each. Total $1m

5% dividends = $50k into your pocket.
Left with 10,000 shares of $100 each.

If, instead, price increase by 5%.
You now have 10,000 shares of $105 each.
Sell 476 shares, $49,980 into pocket.
Left with 9,524 shares of $105 each.
Total = $1m + $20

 

[silverbomb]

Not really.
If the 5% is share price increase, you sell the 50k and end up the same as 5% dividends.

Say 10,000 shares of $100 each. Total $1m

5% dividends = $50k into your pocket.
Left with 10,000 shares of $100 each.

If, instead, price increase by 5%.
You now have 10,000 shares of $105 each.
Sell 476 shares, $49,980 into pocket.
Left with 9,524 shares of $105 each.
Total = $1m + $20

for fresh grad student, is 5% returns good for me?? still a newbie here, was looking at SMART syfe dbs portfolio etc lol

my personal feel currently is towards stocks with potential than receiving dividends. if a company is giving dividends, means that they're more inclined to give dividend to shareholders and not spend the profit/revenue back into reinvesting/R&D of that company to brings more innovations or products for the company. this view was also similarly highlighted by Elon Musk 2 weeks ago during the shareholder meetings.

so pick wisely if going long for the fresh grad. even starting with robo is a form of feeling invested, it gets you started on your feet than never ever. I feel that as fresh grad should be more gutsy, even if he lose he cannot lose much in this stage of life and have low barriers of entry to investing nowadays. if investing had a low barrier of entry (high cost, manual trades, hear say, little access to info/resource online) when i was younger, i would have started 10 years earlier, but start late better than never.

 

[dappermen]

evn w/o the Chart, we know!
the Only surprise is STi! evn score a more thn 10% ytd

https://endowus.com/insights/q3-202...view&utm_campaign=291021-Update-Q3Performance
Spk w ONLY facts , not Emotions...




he wrote somethg- https://seedly.sg/opinions/robo-war...PQS_LKWwC7WhUJCE6OE3ivhBl6XJHMRUzKPiRmWprjNYY

Key Observations​

1. Endowus portfolio was taking a lead among the 3 robo advisors so far, and StashAway portfolio was falling quite far behind.
2. Endowus portfolio followed quite closely the movement of the 2 world indices, and it managed to outperform them.
3. Both Syfe and StashAway portfolios were alternating between profit and loss from month to month.
4. StashAway portfolio mainly sufferred a setback from exposure to China equity and Gold.
   
   though Observation period is too short to make a conclusive verdict on their relative performance.