Those suffering from any kind of pollution, housing issues e.g. noise, air quality, flooding, flat defects, etc can share your experiences here

[windwaver]

https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/raspberry-pi-air-quality-monitor

There are such monitors sold online, I bought one myself many years ago and it can be powered with a portable battery.

 

[pwongkk]

There are such monitors sold online, I bought one myself many years ago and it can be powered with a portable battery.

I chose this setup as I allowed my relatives and some friends to access my air monitor.

 

[windwaver]

Oh yes, I remember the Pengerang incident but Singaporeans generally have short memory .

I did speak to a few people on the ground mainly those working in Northshore before it was built on the air quality, all of them advised me not to buy a property there.

However, I can understand the lure of a sea view (even most are direct west sun) and I think those stacks can hold their value in time to come.

Oh just to add.

There's also helicopter noise at times, it can be as early as 8am from what I understand from residents.

The helicopter will fly along the Singapore side of the Johor Strait, those units having the sea view to Pasir Gudang will be the worst affected.

I experienced it once and it was really noisy, much worse than fighter jets higher up in the sky.

However, it was interesting having such a closed up view of a helicopter in operation.

 

[windwaver]

The sound is like this (captured at Northshore), you'll notice the helicopter coming real close at around the 1 min mark.

 

[madedd]

With regards to my question on what to monitor, here's their reply.

You can go to www.haze.gov.sg and click on haze update then look into the Pollution concentration.

Regards
Joey Ng

Mr. Joey Ng Kee Meng • Technical Supervisor • Pollution Control Department • National Environment Agency • DID : +65 6731 9979 • Fax : +65 6731 9651 • Email : Joey_Ng@nea.gov.sg

Windwaver, may I know if at any point in your correspondences with NEA you have asked if their monitoring specifically includes detecting pollutants commonly produced by refineries?

NEA's Joey Ng pointed you to the haze.gov.sg Pollution concentrations, which includes sub-indices for SO2 Sulphur Dioxide, O3 Ozone, CO Carbon Monoxide, NO2 Nitrogen Dioxide.

What about other common refinery-produced BTEX compounds, i.e. benzene, toluene, ethylbenzene and xylene? Are they monitoring the concentration of those compounds?

If yes, are the readings published anywhere? If no, why not?

 

[keenklee]

Windwaver, may I know if at any point in your correspondences with NEA you have asked if their monitoring specifically includes detecting pollutants commonly produced by refineries?

NEA's Joey Ng pointed you to the haze.gov.sg Pollution concentrations, which includes sub-indices for SO2 Sulphur Dioxide, O3 Ozone, CO Carbon Monoxide, NO2 Nitrogen Dioxide.

What about other common refinery-produced BTEX compounds, i.e. benzene, toluene, ethylbenzene and xylene? Are they monitoring the concentration of those compounds?

If yes, are the readings published anywhere? If no, why not?

IMHO.
If you want the answers to what you ask, just write - it is not like the email is not there.

 

[madedd]

IMHO.
If you want the answers to what you ask, just write - it is not like the email is not there.

Already did, via the general feedback form.

No harm in asking for past replies for comparison while I await a reply, right?

Also, am curious for the number of times TS mentions asking uncles on his jogging path and other residents for anecdotal feedback, whether the most critical question of published BTEX readings was asked - that, would be in the spirit of his earlier comments on basing the discussion on facts and science.

 

[keenklee]

Already did, via the general feedback form.

No harm in asking for past replies for comparison while I await a reply, right?

Also, am curious for the number of times TS mentions asking uncles on his jogging path and other residents for anecdotal feedback, whether the most critical question of published BTEX readings was asked - that, would be in the spirit of his earlier comments on basing the discussion on facts and science.

IMHO.
Also there is no harm stating what was already being done to avoid unnecessary replies.
Punggol may be divided into East, Centre and West - facts and science therefore needs to be precise.

 

[madedd]

IMHO.
Also there is no harm stating what was already being done to avoid unnecessary replies.
Punggol may be divided into East, Centre and West - facts and science therefore needs to be precise.

Bro, let's keep the discussion productive leh.

I asked TS whether he asked NEA about published BTEX readings. Whether I asked NEA myself has no bearing on his answer, right? What unnecessary replies leh?

Also, "Punggol may be divided... needs to be precise"... Erm, maybe let TS reply whether he asked and whether NEA said they publish BTEX readings in the first place, before you demand to know if the readings relate to Punggol NSEW? Published readings are associated with specific regional monitoring stations ma, then we will naturally know what.

IMHO, not sure how your reply is helpful wor. Shall we just wait for TS to reply?

 

[keenklee]

Bro, let's keep the discussion productive leh.

I asked TS whether he asked NEA about published BTEX readings. Whether I asked NEA myself has no bearing on his answer, right? What unnecessary replies leh?

Also, "Punggol may be divided... needs to be precise"... Erm, maybe let TS reply whether he asked and whether NEA said they publish BTEX readings in the first place, before you demand to know if the readings relate to Punggol NSEW? Published readings are associated with specific regional monitoring stations ma, then we will naturally know what.

IMHO, not sure how your reply is helpful wor. Shall we just wait for TS to reply?

IMHO.
Usually discussion relating to Punggol = NSEW.

Below was a measurement of air quality in Punggol. Where got issue ?
CO2 - 400 ppm
HCHO - 0.002 mg/m3
TVOC - 0.007 mg/m3

 

[madedd]

IMHO.
Usually discussion relating to Punggol = NSEW.

Below was a measurement of air quality in Punggol. Where got issue ?
CO2 - 400 ppm
HCHO - 0.002 mg/m3
TVOC - 0.007 mg/m3

Are these NEA published readings? If so, a link would be nice - because that was the whole point of my qns.

As with all elements of nature, air quality readings are not static. So not sure what your point is posting stats with no timestamps or historical min/max/avg is supposed to say as to "got issue" or not.

Save a link to NEA which I'll greatly appreciate - assuming your readings are from NEA - will not engage further.

 

[windwaver]

Windwaver, may I know if at any point in your correspondences with NEA you have asked if their monitoring specifically includes detecting pollutants commonly produced by refineries?

NEA's Joey Ng pointed you to the haze.gov.sg Pollution concentrations, which includes sub-indices for SO2 Sulphur Dioxide, O3 Ozone, CO Carbon Monoxide, NO2 Nitrogen Dioxide.

What about other common refinery-produced BTEX compounds, i.e. benzene, toluene, ethylbenzene and xylene? Are they monitoring the concentration of those compounds?

If yes, are the readings published anywhere? If no, why not?

No I didn't ask but it sounded like all those parameters NEA is tracking seems sufficient.

Maybe a qualified engineer will be in a better position to question them?

I sent an email to NEA because there were so many controversies about air quality so I thought the reply might be helpful to residents of Punggol (I don't stay in Punggol though).

Hope that helps

 

[keenklee]

Are these NEA published readings? If so, a link would be nice - because that was the whole point of my qns.

As with all elements of nature, air quality readings are not static. So not sure what your point is posting stats with no timestamps or historical min/max/avg is supposed to say as to "got issue" or not.

Save a link to NEA which I'll greatly appreciate - assuming your readings are from NEA - will not engage further.

IMHO.
The point is straight forward - no point asking in great details when more or less the answer is decided.

When others say got pollution issue without readings, a lot of people go Yes Yes Yes.
When I post no pollution from readings, ask me time stamp, historical data, min/max/avg, and links etc.

If NEA data are necessary, no point posting in here since already written to NEA. NEA will probably give Punggol=NSEW and not Punggol in NSEW.

Like I said - Also there is no harm stating what was already being done to avoid unnecessary replies.

Like you said in bold red above, the data is dynamic. There are some data on the internet relating to this for Punggol separated into NSEW. Just have to look deeper. If really interested, it doesn't cost a lot to buy an air quality detector and self measure.

 

[keenklee]

No I didn't ask but it sounded like all those parameters NEA is tracking seems sufficient.

Maybe a qualified engineer will be in a better position to question them?

I sent an email to NEA because there were so many controversies about air quality so I thought the reply might be helpful to residents of Punggol (I don't stay in Punggol though).

Hope that helps

IMHO.
I already shared my data. There is no air quality issue in Punggol (NSEW).
CO2 - 400 ppm
HCHO - 0.002 mg/m3
TVOC - 0.007 mg/m3

 

[windwaver]

Already did, via the general feedback form.

No harm in asking for past replies for comparison while I await a reply, right?

Also, am curious for the number of times TS mentions asking uncles on his jogging path and other residents for anecdotal feedback, whether the most critical question of published BTEX readings was asked - that, would be in the spirit of his earlier comments on basing the discussion on facts and science.

Hi @madedd , the route is one of the most extreme jogging paths if I want to do a long one, that's why I'm a familiar face with some of the residents and workers there.

Other than the reply from NEA, I was just curious and started asking around if people working/living there did experience strange smells, if there is, how often and what kind because by the time I do my runs, it usually smells ok. The only time the air smell odd (which cause me to feel nauseous) was during the bad pollution in Pasir Gudang.

As I've mentioned, the replies all pointed back to occasional bad smell and air quality with the exception of a construction foreman and a worker sweeping the beaches on the shore.

Both the foreman and the worker sweeping the beaches told me not to buy properties in the vicinity and the reason is daily bad air quality. They told me air quality is pretty bad early in the morning, especially from the worker sweeping the beaches which happens to be nearest to Pasir Gudang.

The most recent was a young couple that shifted in not long ago. They told me the funny smell in the air comes on randomly and they just shut all their windows when that happens. It usually happens deep into the night so most visitors will never experience it.

Don't get me wrong, I really love the nature around that area but all these are facts I gathered from the ground. However, I'm not a qualified engineer to comment on NEA's reply.

All I was hoping is helping out the residents of Punggol with regards to their concerns.

 

[madedd]

No I didn't ask but it sounded like all those parameters NEA is tracking seems sufficient.

Thanks for the reply. No worries, I will share NEA's reply to me as and when they respond, since I asked specifically about published VOC/BTEX readings.

The readings they publish at haze.gov.sg don't include Volatile Organic Compounds / BTEX which are common pollutants from oil refineries as stated in NEA's own FAQ (i.e. search NEA Air Quality).

From my readings, press releases from NEA and articles (e.g. search 99.co Pasir Gudang) by property researchers only state NEA as saying they do monitor VOCs and that measurements are "well within international safety guidelines”, but they gave no readings nor figures which their safety guidelines are based upon.

Here's hoping keenklee actually found NEA's published VOC/BTEX readings and that he'll share link - assuming his numbers are from NEA.

Edit:

IMHO.
I already shared my data. There is no air quality issue in Punggol (NSEW).

... no point asking in great details when more or less the answer is decided.

... it doesn't cost a lot to buy an air quality detector and self measure.

1) So keenklee, your singular non-attributed and non-timestamped reading is from your own detector, not NEA?

IMHO.
When others say got pollution issue without readings, a lot of people go Yes Yes Yes.
When I post no pollution from readings, ask me time stamp, historical data, min/max/avg, and links etc.

2) If we want to be scientific and base the discussion on facts, anyone concerned and objective would ask for historical data, no? Else it's like telling me the rainfall measurement is 0mm today so it never has and will never rain in Singapore. Does that make sense to you?

 

[keenklee]

Edit:

1) So keenklee, your singular non-attributed and non-timestamped reading is from your own detector, not NEA?

2) If we want to be scientific and base the discussion on facts, anyone concerned and objective would ask for historical data, no? Else it's like telling me the rainfall measurement is 0mm today so it never has and will never rain in Singapore. Does that make sense to you?

IMHO.

1. My data got indicate any pollution concern ?
2. If you are satisfied with your telling of the rainfall measurement is 0mm today so it never has and will never rain in Singapore, it is entirely up to you. I just illustrate to you. A person use a ear thermometer and take a temperature reading. Rather that use that single value to determine whether at that point of time does the person have fever, you argue whether it is accurate to the extend that in order to have science and facts, one need to perhaps measure 10 times and take the average.

For me, it is straight forward, I make the effort to take measurement and move from there. I also make the effort to go and take the measurement a few times and there readings were thereabout. If I am a research person, I will take my own readings and compare with NEA readings. I will not ask for readings only and try to find "loopholes" in the reading to substantiate my case.

P.S. I had specifically posted the readings knowing because most who already had their answer in mind and will unlikely comment that based on the readings, there is no pollution as well as trying to disregard my posted readings. And it happened exactly as such. I already specially pointed out that to most, Punggol = NSEW but again, no one ask where the reading was taken.

Anyway, the readings are just a by-product of my interests of finding out the CO2.

 

[madedd]

Aiyoh bro. Okay lah I get it. You don't really want to know the facts.

1. My data got indicate any pollution concern ?

You gave no information on the equipment you used, its rated sensitivity, where and when the measurements were taken. How to take your 'data' to be meaningful ah?

2. If you are satisfied with your telling of the rainfall measurement is 0mm today so it never has and will never rain in Singapore, it is entirely up to you.

Huh that is not what I want, that is what you are telling us leh!

If I am a research person, I will take my own readings and compare with NEA readings. I will not ask for readings only and try to find "loopholes" in the reading to substantiate my case.

Er bro, no one asked for your data. I asked for NEA published readings.

You jumped in with your own unattributed and unqualified 'data' trying to dismiss the need for NEA data.

Then you say I show 'proof' liao you still niao try to poke holes.

I have no 'case', I want to know the facts.

You are the one with the "no pollution, nothing to see here" case trying to force your point.

P.S. [...] Punggol = NSEW but again, no one ask where the reading was taken.

P.S. If you sincere in sharing your data points:
1) State the equipment you use and its rated sensitivity specs
2) Give the GPS coordinates where the measurements are taken, and keep to the same location
3) Keep timestamped historical records of measurements at regular intervals

Punggol residents will surely be grateful if anyone would share reliable data as such, for comparison against NEA if/when they publish VOC/BTEX readings.

I asked for NEA data, you responded with your own and I had to pry it out of you for an admission it's not from NEA.

When one is not upfront and honest, how to blame others for not taking your single datapoint seriously??

Out.

 

[keenklee]

Aiyoh bro. Okay lah I get it. You don't really want to know the facts.



You gave no information on the equipment you used, its rated sensitivity, where and when the measurements were taken. How to take your 'data' to be meaningful ah?



Huh that is not what I want, that is what you are telling us leh!



Er bro, no one asked for your data. I asked for NEA published readings.

You jumped in with your own unattributed and unqualified 'data' trying to dismiss the need for NEA data.

Then you say I show 'proof' liao you still niao try to poke holes.

I have no 'case', I want to know the facts.

You are the one with the "no pollution, nothing to see here" case trying to force your point.



P.S. If you sincere in sharing your data points:
1) State the equipment you use and its rated sensitivity specs
2) Give the GPS coordinates where the measurements are taken, and keep to the same location
3) Keep timestamped historical records of measurements at regular intervals

Punggol residents will surely be grateful if anyone would share reliable data as such, for comparison against NEA if/when they publish VOC/BTEX readings.

I asked for NEA data, you responded with your own and I had to pry it out of you for an admission it's not from NEA.

When one is not upfront and honest, how to blame others for not taking your single datapoint seriously??

Out.

IMHO.
You're still expecting from others.
Anyway, DIY yourself, it is not difficult. Others, not me, will be grateful to you perhaps.

Like I had said - " I will not ask for readings only and try to find "loopholes" in the reading to substantiate my case. " - exactly it happens by asking type of equipment, specs, etc

Like I have pointed to you, "Also there is no harm stating what was already being done to avoid unnecessary replies." i.e. upfront.

Re-read what I posted on the measurement below. You can interpret however you like. I am also ok and understand if you deem me to be not upfront and DISHONEST.

"Below was a measurement of air quality in Punggol. Where got issue ?
CO2 - 400 ppm
HCHO - 0.002 mg/m3
TVOC - 0.007 mg/m3"

P.S. Usually I try not to say people outright dishonest. Tsk Tsk.

 

[neutralph]

Sorry to kaypoh, but what is the hooha around here? Anyone claiming NEA reading not accurate or doctored? I thought they have a hourly reading for the entire island?

https://www.haze.gov.sg/resources/pollutant-concentrations