FIRE (Financial Independence, Retire Early) Movement

[Nofear40]

Nah, avg for the last decade is probably around 140-150.

Your property investment must be doing v well

 

[d5dude]

actually my original post didnt compare or even remotely suggest that property investment did better than equities.

btw, i also can use your wise words and say SPY is already the past. We should move forward and identify the next pot of gold whahahahaha

Thought that was what you were suggesting since you brought this up specifically... also I said nothing about investing in the S&P500 being the best way of investing for anyone, I only mentioned it cos its a boring index fund that has done better than SG real estate.

There are many ways to achieve financial independence, you just have to do what you think will work for you, there is no "best" way to get there.

 

[d5dude]

I know of a guy that borrowed a huge tonne of ringgit then used rental incomes to pay for the interest, so if there is any capital gain he wins.
very crazy, the monthly installment kept going down in terms of sgd.

Can definitely work well if Malaysia interest rates remain low and ringgit is weak.

 

[d5dude]

Your property investment must be doing v well

I dun invest in properties, my only property is my primary residence, its up around 70% since I bought it.

 

[Nofear40]

I dun invest in properties, my only property is my primary residence, its up around 70% since I bought it.

Wa
Is this included in your 3m net worth

 

[d5dude]

Wa
Is this included in your 3m net worth

Yes, some of my primary residence was funded with CPF OA so I did not include CPF in determining networth.

 

[DevilPlate]

Did some research and realised sunny spring in Geylang 4X since 2005!!!!!
from 380psf to today 15xxpsf….GEYLANG!!!!!

I viewed this project before and was utterly surprised by their stellar performance

 

[DevilPlate]

Thought that was what you were suggesting since you brought this up specifically... also I said nothing about investing in the S&P500 being the best way of investing for anyone, I only mentioned it cos its a boring index fund that has done better than SG real estate.

There are many ways to achieve financial independence, you just have to do what you think will work for you, there is no "best" way to get there.

Very good at making assumptions indeed.
did i say property is the best way?

hindsight is always 20/20 my friend.

 

[DevilPlate]

Saw a video interviewing amdk entrepreneur…..to him he expects investment to double every year…..whahaha
from his standpoint as he build and flip biz…..just watch for entertainment whahaha

 

[xorionn]

What % in stocks, % property % cash today?

 

[highsulphur]

What % in stocks, % property % cash today?

for me is less than 3% cash. Property is probably 40%

 

[DevilPlate]

What % in stocks, % property % cash today?

For FI/FIRE perspective, maybe we should only include investment properties and exclude primary residence unless one intend to downgrade in the future to cash out.

 

[DevilPlate]

An extremely boring index fund like S&P500 has returned more than 5x (including divs) between 2005 and 2023, so you dun need to pick stocks if you are not looking to get rich thru investing. even gold is up 4-5x since 2005, there's nothing special about property investment if you dun lever up (which can be extremely risky).

Just to add from my personal experience……investment property is actually very safe because tenant is paying the bulk of your installment for initial years and eventually as inflation creeps up….rental will surpass all cost with some spare change even. The key is maintaining a good cashflow just like doing a biz…..i make sure i have sufficient E cash to sustain installment for 6-12mths in the event of a vacancy period. Also both husband and wife need to work to reduce the risk of being retrenched. Single income indeed VERY RISKY to invest in property. Even own stay very risky for single income without deep sufficient Ecash.

Whereas for own stay, that is the real risk. So during wealth accumulation phase, stay in a cheap HDB or cheaper suburbs condo instead.

 

[Nofear40]

Just to add from my personal experience……investment property is actually very safe because tenant is paying the bulk of your installment for initial years and eventually as inflation creeps up….rental will surpass all cost with some spare change even. The key is maintaining a good cashflow just like doing a biz…..i make sure i have sufficient E cash to sustain installment for 6-12mths in the event of a vacancy period. Also both husband and wife need to work to reduce the risk of being retrenched. Single income indeed VERY RISKY to invest in property. Even own stay very risky for single income without deep sufficient Ecash.

Whereas for own stay, that is the real risk. So during wealth accumulation phase, stay in a cheap HDB or cheaper suburbs condo instead.

Have a few friends who intend to downgrade to retire or have already downgraded
Earn quite a bit

 

[DevilPlate]

However having said so much about property, i find recent or upcoming launches selling at ridiculous prices whereas if u look harder at the resale market….there are still some decent deals out there.

Majority of the folks here are into equities….i get it….i am as well else i will not be here scouting for ideas.

 

[kickass22]

Thank you for all the sharing by all the folks in MM. It is great to get diverse views.

I am surprised that so many people here specify that they already have 3 million or 5 million etc... and they cannot retire. I just don't get it as it seems to be on the high end.

I am guessing, either your lifestyle requirements are high and thus not enough, or you have not done proper planning and thus have a lot of fear?/uncertainty? in you. The uncertainty will not go away until you do proper planning for the decumulation phase of your life.

The combination of stocks, bonds, cash, and other relevant assets together with an appropriate well-planned accumulation strategy will greatly help in reducing the fear/uncertainty ( if that is the reason).

 

[hwmook]

However having said so much about property, i find recent or upcoming launches selling at ridiculous prices whereas if u look harder at the resale market….there are still some decent deals out there.

Majority of the folks here are into equities….i get it….i am as well else i will not be here scouting for ideas.

Those guys who invest in properties cannot retire early so they are not in this forums.

Property investment need a lot of guts or money and if you have ton of that, you can make much more in equities. Property investment belong to a niche portion so that's why not many interested here.

 

[limster]

Thank you for all the sharing by all the folks in MM. It is great to get diverse views.

I am surprised that so many people here specify that they already have 3 million or 5 million etc... and they cannot retire. I just don't get it as it seems to be on the high end.

I'm happy to be contrarian and admit that I have enough to retire now since I have reached Financial Independence (passive income > standard of living), but I have no interest in retiring now.

(1) retire too early, friends still working, and probably working hard, no time to hang out with you. If you retire later, for example 50+, your friends may also have retired or are coasting in their careers, so more time to hang out for tea/kopi with you.

(2) I don't hate my job. I have some WFH though not as much as d5dude WFH seems to be what FIRE is like. Wake up, cycle to hawker centre for breakfast, check e-mails, go back to Zoom then gym and swim, then go out for lunch, then do work in Starbucks.

 

[Nofear40]

I'm happy to be contrarian and admit that I have enough to retire now since I have reached Financial Independence (passive income > standard of living), but I have no interest in retiring now.

(1) retire too early, friends still working, and probably working hard, no time to hang out with you. If you retire later, for example 50+, your friends may also have retired or are coasting in their careers, so more time to hang out for tea/kopi with you.

(2) I don't hate my job. I have some WFH though not as much as d5dude WFH seems to be what FIRE is like. Wake up, cycle to hawker centre for breakfast, check e-mails, go back to Zoom then gym and swim, then go out for lunch, then do work in Starbucks.

May I ask what is your source of passive income? Dividends and/or rental?

 

[Nofear40]

Thank you for all the sharing by all the folks in MM. It is great to get diverse views.

I am surprised that so many people here specify that they already have 3 million or 5 million etc... and they cannot retire. I just don't get it as it seems to be on the high end.

I am guessing, either your lifestyle requirements are high and thus not enough, or you have not done proper planning and thus have a lot of fear?/uncertainty? in you. The uncertainty will not go away until you do proper planning for the decumulation phase of your life.

The combination of stocks, bonds, cash, and other relevant assets together with an appropriate well-planned accumulation strategy will greatly help in reducing the fear/uncertainty ( if that is the reason).

If a large chunk of the wealth is due to the property that one is staying in, unless one is willing to downgrade (but need to consider spouse and/or kids needs), it will be a different story.
But most of my friends do intend to downgrade after they marry their kids off.. lol