New HDB BTO Flat - How do you connect your Home Fiber Network

[trenzterra]

Just got my internet installed yesterday. Using AX86U in db box with XD5 in the middle bedroom. Can get full bars throughout the house (4 rm bto)

 

[gamechanger]

Hello there,

Could someone please advise if my understanding (after reading couple of pages here on the thread) is correct for a 2 years old BTO flat?

Background info:
- Using google mesh wifi router with wifi point

- Google nest router is in the DB box (enclosed in a cupboard next to the main entrance of our HDB)
- Google nest point is in the kitchen
- Kitchen is most centralised part of the house
- Main entrance is furthest point of the house
- Wifi is weak in master bedroom
- 4 data points at home:

- data point 1: study room​

- data point 2: living room​

- data point 3: master bedroom​

- data point 4: kitchen​

Plan #1:
1. DB Box: Connect ONT to a 5-port switch
2. DB Box: Connect 5-port switch to all 4 data points of panel patch
3. Study: Connect CPU to data point 1
4. Living: Connect TV to data point 2
5. Master Bedroom: Connect Google nest point to data point 3
6. Kitchen: Connect Google nest wifi router to data point 4

Plan #2 :
1. Ditch current MyRepublic plan (up for renewal soon) for M1's GT-AX6000 plan
2. DB Box: Connect ONT to a 5-port switch
3. DB Box: Connect 5-port switch to all 4 data points of panel patch
3. Study: Connect CPU to data point 1
4. Living: Connect TV to data point 2
5. Kitchen: Connect GT-AX6000 WAN to data point 4

Thanks!

 

[xiaofan]

Hello there,

Could someone please advise if my understanding (after reading couple of pages here on the thread) is correct for a 2 years old BTO flat?

Background info:
- Using google mesh wifi router with wifi point

- Google nest router is in the DB box (enclosed in a cupboard next to the main door)
- Google nest point is in the kitchen
- Kitchen is most centralised part of the house
- Wifi is weak in master bedroom
- 4 data points at home:

- data point 1: study room​

- data point 2: living room​

- data point 3: master bedroom​

- data point 4: kitchen​

Plan #1:
1. DB Box: Connect ONT to a 5-port switch
2. DB Box: Connect 5-port switch to all 4 data points of panel patch
3. Study: Connect CPU to data point 1
4. Living: Connect TV to data point 2
5. Master Bedroom: Connect Google nest point to data point 3
6. Kitchen: Connect Google nest wifi router to data point 4

Plan #2 :
1. Ditch current MyRepublic plan (up for renewal soon) for M1's GT-AX6000 plan
2. DB Box: Connect ONT to a 5-port switch
3. DB Box: Connect 5-port switch to all 4 data points of panel patch
3. Study: Connect CPU to data point 1
4. Living: Connect TV to data point 2
5. Kitchen: Connect GT-AX6000 WAN to data point 4

Thanks!

Either plan does not work. You can not use the following configuration.
ONT --> Switch --> wireless router

You need to use the following configuration.
ONT --> main wireless router --> switch --> PC/TV and mesh node.

BTW, Google Nest WiFi is pretty lousy mesh solution.
1) Google Nest WiFi Point has no LAN ports, you have to use wireless backhaul. It will still work if it can have line of sight with the main Nest WiFi router.
2) Google Nest WiFi does not support mesh in AP mode. This may not be a concern for you though.
https://support.google.com/googlene...ef_topic=9831837&sjid=12351233616511017773-AP
https://support.google.com/googlenest/answer/6240987?hl=en&co=GENIE.Platform=Android

You may have to post the floor plan (with details of the ONT and LAN ports) to see what is a better option for you. Please also state the budget.

Placement is also important. It is in general a bad idea to put the main wireless router in the cupboard.

 

[gamechanger]

Either plan does not work. You can not use the following configuration.
ONT --> Switch --> wireless router

You need to use the following configuration.
ONT --> main wireless router --> switch --> PC/TV and mesh node.

BTW, Google Nest WiFi is pretty lousy mesh solution.
1) Google Nest WiFi Point has no LAN ports, you have to use wireless backhaul. It will still work if it can have line of sight with the main Nest WiFi router.
2) Google Nest WiFi does not support mesh in AP mode. This may not be a concern for you though.


You may have to post the floor plan (with details of the ONT and LAN ports) to see what is a better option for you. Please also state the budget.

Placement is also important. It is in general a bad idea to put the main wireless router in the cupboard.

Hello xiaofan,

Thanks for the very quick response man. Ah so it seems like the main wireless router has to be directly connected to the ONT with a cable?

Currently there's no line of sight and understand that Google nest is a pretty bad solution in general so am prepared to ditch it for something else. Budget wise, approx. $50/mth for a 1GBPS broadplan plan and approx $400 for a router? The GT-AX6000 seems like a good fit for me.

Yea definitely a bad idea to put main wireless router in cupboard which is why I am thinking of relocating it to the kitchen area via the data point there

Here's the floorplan, let me know if other info requried

#edit: my plan is only up for renewal in dec, so will have to make do with the google nest router in the meantime i guess

 

[xiaofan]

Hello xiaofan,

Thanks for the very quick response man. Ah so it seems like the main wireless router has to be directly connected to the ONT with a cable?

Currently there's no line of sight and understand that Google nest is a pretty bad solution in general so am prepared to ditch it for something else. Budget wise, approx. $50/mth for a 1GBPS broadplan plan and approx $400 for a router? The GT-AX6000 seems like a good fit for me.

Yea definitely a bad idea to put main wireless router in cupboard which is why I am thinking of relocating it to the kitchen area via the data point there

Here's the floorplan, let me know if other info requried

#edit: my plan is only up for renewal in dec, so will have to make do with the google nest router in the meantime i guess

No problem to keep using your current ISP and Google Nest Router/Point combination now.

And yes it is correct that your main router needs to be connected to the ONT directly using a Ethernet cable.

And yes GT-AX6000 is a very good router to buy, especially if you to M1.
https://www.m1.com.sg/home-broadband/devices/asus-rog-rapture-gt-ax6000

In fact a single GT-AX6000 in the kitchen area may be able to cover your full flat. The problem is that you also need the LAN ports in the living room and study room to be functional.


Option 1:
If you can, pull another cable from the DB Box (ONT location) to your kitchen area LAN port (say at aroud S$150). In that case, you can have the following connection.

ONT -- kitchen area LAN Port 1 -- Asus ROG GT-AX6000 -- kitchen area LAN Port 2 -- dumb switch (like TP-Link TL-SG105 in DB box) -- Room LAN ports
Living room LAN port -- TV
Study room LAN port -- PC

Total cost -- GT-AX6000 at S$13.12 per month x 24 months + S$29 for TL-SG105 + S$150 = S$493.88.

Option 2:
If that is not possible, then GT-AX6000 may not be the best buy as you need to put a router in the DB box area. Maybe you can get the ZenWiFi XD6/XD6S mesh at S$11.10 top-up from M1, and then buy TUF-AX4200 as the main router in DB box area at around S$249.

ONT -- TUF-AX4200 in DB box area -- Room LAN Ports
Study room LAN port -- Zenwifi XD6S -- PC
MBR LAN port -- ZenWiFi XD6S
Living room LAN port -- TV

Total cost -- Zenwifi XD6S (two nodes) at S$11.10 x 24 + S$249 = S$515.40

 

[1a2a3a]

Random thoughts - what would happen if you place a switch between modem and router?

modem > switch > router

 

[xiaofan]

Random thoughts - what would happen if you place a switch between modem and router?
modem > switch > router

For one router it should still work. For two routers only one of them will work as only one will get DHCP address from the ISP.

 

[1a2a3a]

For one router it should still work. For two routers only one of them will work as only one will get DHCP address from the ISP.

can you do this ----
fibre > modem > switch > router.
then switch LAN 1234 to DB patch panel 1234?
assuming router is not in db.

 

[Mach3.2]

can you do this ----
fibre > modem > switch > router.
then switch LAN 1234 to DB patch panel 1234?
assuming router is not in db.

You need a managed switch on both ends that allows you to segment WAN and LAN into different VLANs.

 

[xiaofan]

can you do this ----
fibre > modem > switch > router.
then switch LAN 1234 to DB patch panel 1234?
assuming router is not in db.

No, you can not do that, at least not with a dumb switch.

Example:
Fibre TP --> ONT --> Dumb Switch --> Router
Dumb Switch --> Room LAN ports
Bedroom LAN Port --> PC
Study LAN Port --> Xbox

Only one of the three devices will work, as the ISP only issue one DHCP address.

 

[xiaofan]

You need a managed switch on both ends that allows you to segment WAN and LAN into different VLANs.

Please help to elaborate. Thanks.

Something like the following? Say we use two untis of the cheper TP-Link TL-SG105E smart switch. If we use 1Gbps Fibre interner plan, It may become 1Gbps half duplex or 500Mbps full duplex, right?

Managed switch 1 (in DB Box) Trunk port 5 -- single Ethernet cable --> Managed Switch 2 (in living room) trunk port 1
Managed switch 1 LAN ports 2/3/4 (VLAN ID 200) --> patch panel --> Room LAN ports x 3
ONT --> Managed switch 1 WAN port 2 (VLAN ID 100)

Managed switch 2 WAN port 2 (VLAN ID 100) --> main router WAN port
Managed switch 2 LAN port 3/4/5 --Router LAN ports

Lazy to draw a proper picture, so I use a screenshot from a Chinese Youtube video.

Orange colour --> trunk ports
Red colour --> WAN port (VLAN ID 100)
Blue colour --> LAN ports (VLAN ID 200)

More details:

 

[Mach3.2]

Please help to elaborate. Thanks.

Something like the following? Say we use two untis of the cheper TP-Link TL-SG105E smart switch. If we use 1Gbps Fibre interner plan, It may become 1Gbps half duplex or 500Mbps full duplex, right?

Managed switch 1 (in DB Box) Trunk port 1 -- single Ethernet cable --> Managed Switch 2 (in living room) trunk port 1
Managed switch 1 LAN ports 3/4/5 (VLAN ID 200) --> patch panel --> Room LAN ports x 3
ONT --> Managed switch 1 WAN port 2 (VLAN ID 100)

Managed switch 2 WAN port 2 (VLAN ID 100) --> main router WAN port
Managed switch 2 LAN port 3/4/5 --Router LAN ports

Lazy to draw a proper picture, so I use a screenshot from a Chinese Youtube video.

Yes, essentially like this.

The trunk between both switches are still 1GbE full duplex. Since WAN traffic has to traverse from switch 1 to switch 2 before it reaches the router, depending on which switch your client is connected to, the traffic might end up going from switch 1, to switch 2, then back to switch 1, which amplifies the traffic that's carried by the trunk link.

Let's take your youtube screenshot as an example, if I'm connected to the AP that's connected to switch 1, anything that I pull from the internet will traverse from switch 1 to switch 2 before it reaches the router, where routing and NAT done, then the traffic will traverse back through the trunk link to switch 1, then finally to the AP where my phone/computer is connected.

So if I'm downloading a file at 1Gbps, the trunk link will see 1Gbps download and upload at the same time, which effectively saturates the gigabit trunk link.

 

[xiaofan]

Yes, essentially like this.

The trunk between both switches are still 1GbE full duplex. Since WAN traffic has to traverse from switch 1 to switch 2 before it reaches the router, depending on which switch your client is connected to, the traffic might end up going from switch 1, to switch 2, then back to switch 1, which amplifies the traffic that's carried by the trunk link.

Let's take your youtube screenshot as an example, if I'm connected to the AP that's connected to switch 1, anything that I pull from the internet will traverse from switch 1 to switch 2 before it reaches the router, where routing and NAT done, then the traffic will traverse back through the trunk link to switch 1, then finally to the AP where my phone/computer is connected.

So if I'm downloading a file at 1Gbps, the trunk link will see 1Gbps download and upload at the same time, which effectively saturates the gigabit trunk link.

Thanks for the detailed explanation.

So I see a potential problem (but not a big issue in practice), if the user is using one computer to download a file and then at the same time using another computer to upload a file, then both can not reach 1Gbps, as that will exceed the capability of the trunk link. But this should not really be a big issue in reality.

Is my understanding correct?

 

[xiaofan]

Another thing, it is better to use a 8-port smart switch (managed switch) in the DB box in this case. Cheap one is the TP-Link TL-SG108E since you may have more LAN ports in the rooms.

You can use TL-SG105E in the living room (or the room with the main wireless router).

I found another Youtube video (again in Chinese) with better connection diagram (you can ignore the IPTV connection). TL-SG108E is used in the video.

There is a VLAN thread here which can be of good reference as well.
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/threads/quick-primer-to-vlans.6648144/

 

[xiaofan]

There is a VLAN thread here which can be of good reference as well.
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/threads/quick-primer-to-vlans.6648144/

Ah then I found from the above thread, there was a nice post with very good diagram in this forum already. This post is more applicable to local users here compared to the Chinese Youtube video. You can ignore VLAN ID 20 which is for Singtel TV. VLAN ID 10 is specific to Singtel Fibre broadband (ONT user) but you can still use that if you are using other ISP. Or you can change to other numbers like 88 if you like.

https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/...fiber-network.4173602/page-140#post-144272046

 

[Mach3.2]

Thanks for the detailed explanation.

So I see a potential problem (but not a big issue in practice), if the user is using one computer to download a file and then at the same time using another computer to upload a file, then both can not reach 1Gbps, as that will exceed the capability of the trunk link. But this should not really be a big issue in reality.

Is my understanding correct?

Yes, non-issue for most regular people except for in very specific scenarios.

 

[1a2a3a]

wait guys.... are we saying that there is a separate solution (3rd solution) to the hdb issue?
usually we will either do 2 routers or 1 router and pull another lan cable method.

but with the above diagram, we are saying that all we need is 1 router, 2 switches, and the router can be placed in the middle of the room and without the need to pull extra lan cable?

 

[xiaofan]

wait guys.... are we saying that there is a separate solution (3rd solution) to the hdb issue?
usually we will either do 2 routers or 1 router and pull another lan cable method.

but with the above diagram, we are saying that all we need is 1 router, 2 switches, and the router can be placed in the middle of the room and without the need to pull extra lan cable?

Yes. There are three solutions for the BTO flats, for users who want to put the more powerful wireless router in a more central location than the DB Box, yet would still like to have functional LAN ports in the rooms.

1) Put the main router in the DB box and the the wireless AP in the central location.

For average users, this is the preferred solution (especially if your DB box does not block WiFi badly). You can also put a wired router in the DB box (eg: Singtel ONR, better wired router, or wireless router with wireless disabled).

Power users tend to go this way as well, with things like Uniquity Unifi routers (like UDM Pro, UDM Pro SE, etc), MikroTik, or PC based router running OpenWRT/pfSense/OPNsense.

2) Put the main router in the central location and a dumb switch in the DB box (terms and conditions below).

If you have two LAN ports in the living room (or the other rooms), then this is the cheaper solution. This is also applicable if you are willing to pull a new cable to the location where you intend to put the main wireless router, you can put a cheap dumb switch in the DB box.

ONT in DB box --> patch panel -- living room LAN port 1 --> main wireless router --> living room LAN port 2 --> patch panel in DB box --> Dumb switch in DB box (eg: TP-Link TL-SG105 or TL-SG108 dumb switch) --> Room LAN ports

3) Put the main router in the central location with the help of two managed switches, one in DB box and one in the central location

If you are not willing to pull a new cable, then you can use the above-mentioned method, using two managed switch.

a) ONT in DB box --> Managed switch 1 (eg: TP-Link TL-SG108E smart switch)
b) Managed switch LAN Ports (VLAN ID 100) --> patch panel -- Room LAN ports
c) Managed switch 1 trunk port --> patch panel --> Living room LAN port --> Managed switch 2 trunk port (in the Living room, eg, another TL-SG108E, or TL-SG105E smart switch)
d) Managed switch 2 WAN port (VLAN ID 10) --> main wireless router WAN port (in the living room)
e) One of the main wireless router LAN ports --> one of the Managed switch 2 LAN port (VLAN ID 100)
f) If you are using Singtel ONT and Singtel TV box, just need to have one more VLAN ID 20 for the Singtel TV boxes.

 

[1a2a3a]

a) ONT in DB box --> Managed switch 1 (eg: TP-Link TL-SG108E smart switch)
b) Managed switch LAN Ports (VLAN ID 100) --> patch panel -- Room LAN ports
c) Managed switch 1 trunk port --> patch panel --> Living room LAN port --> Managed switch 2 trunk port (in the Living room, eg, another TL-SG108E, or TL-SG105E smart switch)
d) Managed switch 2 WAN port (VLAN ID 10) --> main wireless router WAN port (in the living room)
e) One of the main wireless router LAN ports --> one of the Managed switch 2 LAN port (VLAN ID 100)
f) If you are using Singtel ONT and Singtel TV box, just need to have one more VLAN ID 20 for the Singtel TV boxes.

thanks alot xiaofan. it seems like option 3 is the cheapest of them lot. just wondering why it doesnt seems like a popular choice? is it because of the complexity of configuring the vlan setting in the switches coupled with the potential problem you highlighted earlier (although not exactly a big issue)?

im one of those that dont quite understand the vlan diagram. what does "Vlan 10, Port 1-2 Tagged, Port 3-untag" means? do i have to 'do' something to them?

 

[xiaofan]

thanks alot xiaofan. it seems like option 3 is the cheapest of them lot. just wondering why it doesnt seems like a popular choice? is it because of the complexity of configuring the vlan setting in the switches coupled with the potential problem you highlighted earlier (although not exactly a big issue)?

im one of those that dont quite understand the vlan diagram. what does "Vlan 10, Port 1-2 Tagged, Port 3-untag" means? do i have to 'do' something to them?

I am not an expert in VLAN, but you can read more about VLAN here.
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/threads/quick-primer-to-vlans.6648144/

Option 3 is not popular, because it is not the prefered solution for either average users or power users.

Option 1 is the preferred solution for most users, both average users and power users (just different class of main router in the DB box).

Option 2 is less popular as many of the BTO units do not have two LAN ports close to each other, and it is troublesome to pull a new cable after the initial renovation. I will still suggest those who have not started their renovation to seriously consider this option.