Singapore SGS Bond

[highsulphur]

You hope to get or hope not to get

Hope to get.

 

[vsvs24]

Hope to get.

3.04% so low.

 

[highsulphur]

3.04% so low.

Who knows where it will be in 1 year's time?

Its higher than OA 2.5%. Good enough for me for 2 years

 

[BBCWatcher]

I bid for x amount but I don't have 115% of x in my cpf OA. There was at the point of application but since then an amount had been deducted for the recent tbill auction.

OK, probably the bank will fill as much of your order as your OA balance allows.

As always, if you're going to be using these particular dollars (for housing presumably) in the near future then short-term government bills and bonds can make sense. The exact tenor(s) you choose depend on how soon you'll spend these dollars. But if they're long-term dollars I'd find a long-term investment vehicle instead.

 

[lzydata]

Auction: NA16100H 20-Year Bond (Reopened)​

SGS TypeSGS (Market Development)
Announcement date21 Feb 2024
Auction date27 Feb 2024
Issue date01 Mar 2024
Maturity date01 Mar 2046
Coupon rate2.75% p.a.
Coupon payment dates01 Mar and 01 Sep
Closing yield 3.13% p.a.
Closing price 93.95

https://www.mas.gov.sg/bonds-and-bi...nds?issue_code=NA16100H&issue_date=2024-03-01

Applications closing soon.

For the record only. As usual I'm not recommending individual investors buy such long term bonds.

 

[maumu]

Auction: NA16100H 20-Year Bond (Reopened)​

SGS TypeSGS (Market Development)
Announcement date21 Feb 2024
Auction date27 Feb 2024
Issue date01 Mar 2024
Maturity date01 Mar 2046
Coupon rate2.75% p.a.
Coupon payment dates01 Mar and 01 Sep
Closing yield 3.13% p.a.
Closing price 93.95

https://www.mas.gov.sg/bonds-and-bi...nds?issue_code=NA16100H&issue_date=2024-03-01

Applications closing soon.

For the record only. As usual I'm not recommending individual investors buy such long term bonds.

what's a realistic target for yield if we buy this?

not very savvy when it comes to buying reopened SGS bonds...

 

[reddevil0728]

what's a realistic target for yield if we buy this?

not very savvy when it comes to buying reopened SGS bonds...

Maybe put it the other way.

if you intend to buy something with a 20y time horizon, what’s the yield you are willing to accept?

 

[hwckhs]

Another bond with a shorter term for consideration. Today is the last day to apply.

https://www.mas.gov.sg/bonds-and-bi...nds?issue_code=N522100N&issue_date=2024-03-01

N522100N 5-Year Bond (Reopened)​

SGS Type: SGS (Market Development)
Announcement date: 21 Feb 2024
Auction date: 27 Feb 2024
Issue date: 01 Mar 2024
Maturity date: 01 Sep 2027
Coupon rate: 2.875% p.a.
Coupon payment dates: 01 Mar and 01 Sep
Closing yield: 3.11% p.a.
Closing price: 99.21

The actual term is 3 years and 6 months.

 

[Agate8]

Auction: NA16100H 20-Year Bond (Reopened)​

SGS TypeSGS (Market Development)
Announcement date21 Feb 2024
Auction date27 Feb 2024
Issue date01 Mar 2024
Maturity date01 Mar 2046
Coupon rate2.75% p.a.
Coupon payment dates01 Mar and 01 Sep
Closing yield 3.13% p.a.
Closing price 93.95

https://www.mas.gov.sg/bonds-and-bi...nds?issue_code=NA16100H&issue_date=2024-03-01

Applications closing soon.

For the record only. As usual I'm not recommending individual investors buy such long term bonds.

My 1st time buying SGS 20yrs bonds using CPF.

I just made a NC bid for this. NC bid price $1.15. Regard is didnt do Competitive bid price lower.

Why do you not recommend 20 yrs bond? If need money can sell off right?

Anyone bought this SGS 20yrs bond?

 

[lzydata]

My 1st time buying SGS 20yrs bonds using CPF.

I just made a NC bid for this. NC bid price $1.15. Regard is didnt do Competitive bid price lower.

Why do you not recommend 20 yrs bond? If need money can sell off right?

Anyone bought this SGS 20yrs bond?

Um, the $1.15 you paid is not considered a bid:

• For new SGS issues, the full bid amount will be debited from your account at the point of application.
• For reopened bonds, since the price of the bond is only known after the auction, 115% of the bid amount will be debited. Any difference from the price will be refunded into or debited from your bank account after the auction.

https://www.mas.gov.sg/bonds-and-bi...-bonds-and-t-bills-at-auction-for-individuals

Yes, theoretically it is possible to sell the bond before maturity either to a primary dealer or on the secondary market. But from observation, the secondary market on SGX is very illiquid and it is uncertain what price you will get for it from a primary dealer i.e. if it is close to the market price. Most SGS bonds especially long bonds are bought and held to maturity.

 

[Agate8]

Um, the $1.15 you paid is not considered a bid:

• For new SGS issues, the full bid amount will be debited from your account at the point of application.
• For reopened bonds, since the price of the bond is only known after the auction, 115% of the bid amount will be debited. Any difference from the price will be refunded into or debited from your bank account after the auction.

https://www.mas.gov.sg/bonds-and-bi...-bonds-and-t-bills-at-auction-for-individuals

Yes, theoretically it is possible to sell the bond before maturity either to a primary dealer or on the secondary market. But from observation, the secondary market on SGX is very illiquid and it is uncertain what price you will get for it from a primary dealer i.e. if it is close to the market price. Most SGS bonds especially long bonds are bought and held to maturity.

Thanks for the notes.

Good thing is i didn't buy more using CPF. Wanted to buy SGS Savings Bonds but cant use CPF.

Whats the difference when buying SGS Bonds vs Savings if period are the same, beside the Closing price and yield?

 

[oceanicmanta]

My 1st time buying SGS 20yrs bonds using CPF.

I just made a NC bid for this. NC bid price $1.15. Regard is didnt do Competitive bid price lower.

Why do you not recommend 20 yrs bond? If need money can sell off right?

Anyone bought this SGS 20yrs bond?

@all .. if DBS is the CPFIS agent bank, does DBS levy a fee for the semi-annual coupon crediting ?

cannot recall previous discussion's conclusion

 

[lzydata]

Thanks for the notes.

Good thing is i didn't buy more using CPF. Wanted to buy SGS Savings Bonds but cant use CPF.

Whats the difference when buying SGS Bonds vs Savings if period are the same, beside the Closing price and yield?

With SSB, you can redeem directly with MAS, and - crucially - you can always redeem at par, with accrued interest. So if you bought it for $1k, you won't get less than $1k. (Except for the $2 fee.)

SGS: you are selling the bond to a dealer or the secondary market and you might lose money depending on what the market price is.

 

[DevilPlate]

I will try bid for the upcoming new 5 and 10yr SGS bonds.

Min 3.01% kym? Hehe

 

[Agate8]

With SSB, you can redeem directly with MAS, and - crucially - you can always redeem at par, with accrued interest. So if you bought it for $1k, you won't get less than $1k. (Except for the $2 fee.)

SGS: you are selling the bond to a dealer or the secondary market and you might lose money depending on what the market price is.

Thanks for the simple explanation.

Looks like i cant undo what done.

 

[lzydata]

Thanks for the simple explanation.

Looks like i cant undo what done.

Probably cannot be undone. You can try contacting the bank you used to submit your application.

 

[vsvs24]

@all .. if DBS is the CPFIS agent bank, does DBS levy a fee for the semi-annual coupon crediting ?

cannot recall previous discussion's conclusion

According to their fees schedule, no charge now for interest received.

DBS used to charge for purchase, sale and interest received.

Then they remove "interest received" when I check in Jun 2023. Become "For every purchase and sale".

See my post with pictures of the charges before and after :
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/threads/singapore-treasury-bills-t-bills.6769601/post-147954886


Then later they added maturity to become "For every Purchase, sale and maturity". Till now. Latest :
https://www.dbs.com.sg/iwov-resources/media/pdf/invest/cpf_schedule_charges.pdf

Cheapskate bank.

 

[DevilPlate]

According to their fees schedule, no charge now for interest received.

DBS used to charge for purchase, sale and interest received.

Then they remove "interest received" when I check in Jun 2023. Become "For every purchase and sale".

See my post with pictures of the charges before and after :
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/threads/singapore-treasury-bills-t-bills.6769601/post-147954886


Then later they added maturity to become "For every Purchase, sale and maturity". Till now. Latest :
https://www.dbs.com.sg/iwov-resources/media/pdf/invest/cpf_schedule_charges.pdf

Cheapskate bank.

So better to apply via UOB or OCBC?
im so used to apply Tbill, SSB via DBS lor haha

 

[maumu]

I will try bid for the upcoming new 5 and 10yr SGS bonds.

Min 3.01% kym? Hehe

wow thanks for sharing, will keep a lookout for them.

 

[Agate8]

Probably cannot be undone. You can try contacting the bank you used to submit your application.

Yes, i think so since closing is due tomorrow. Almost wanted to buy $100K worth.

Initially, tried SGS Savings bonds but i cant buy with CPF, so went to next product. Haiz...