WiFi 7 routers (including WiFi 7 routers without 6GHz band support)

[i-Movies]

Currently, I've been using the Orbi RBK53 3-node mesh system for several years in my 1200 sq ft apartment. Although this area should theoretically be covered by 2 nodes as per Product description, I've found that I need 3 nodes to ensure a strong and stable wireless connection, especially in the far bedroom where the signal is weak and unreliable.

Regarding the newer Wi-Fi 7 mesh products claiming to cover larger areas with just 2 nodes, how is that possible? Doesn't Wi-Fi 7 typically have a shorter range compared to Wi-Fi 5?

 

[xiaofan]

Currently, I've been using the Orbi RBK53 3-node mesh system for several years in my 1200 sq ft apartment. Although this area should theoretically be covered by 2 nodes as per Product description, I've found that I need 3 nodes to ensure a strong and stable wireless connection, especially in the far bedroom where the signal is weak and unreliable.

Regarding the newer Wi-Fi 7 mesh products claiming to cover larger areas with just 2 nodes, how is that possible? Doesn't Wi-Fi 7 typically have a shorter range compared to Wi-Fi 5?

DO NOT read too much about the coverage claimed by the vendor -- they are mostly not applicable in Singapore. The number of nodes required depend on the floor plan, the placement, the expectation and then the mesh solution used. Placement is very important. You may want to post your floor plan to see if there is a way to optimize the placement to reduce the number of nodes from three to two if you upgrade to a better mesh solution.

As for WiFi 7, remember WiFi 7 is not the same as 6GHz even though 6GHz is an important upgrader of WiFi 6E/7 vs WiFi 6. And high end WiFi 7 solution is actually using quad-band solution (eg: Netgear Orbi 970, Asus ZenWiFi BQ16).

If you talk about WiFi 7 vs WiFi 6 vs WiFi 5, the vendor's top of the line mesh solution will usually be better than previous generation, due to the improvement in terms of technology like better antenna design and better WiFi chipset used (including FEM). WiFi technology improvement may also contribute a bit but there is a limit. After all, Tx power of the router and clients are limited by local regulations.

Going back to Netgear, the new generation will be better than the older generation, but the cost is also super high. I would not recommend Netgear Orbi high end WiFi 6E/7 solution unless you need to use Wireless Backhaul and/or you live in multi-storey flats and you are really willing to pay for it.
Netgear Orbi 970 (quad-band WiFi 7) > Orbi 960 (quad-band WiFi 6E) > Orbi 860/850 (triband WiFi 6)

Do you have LAN ports in the rooms? If yes, then no need to consider Netgear Orbi.

 

[MrClubbie]

1. For consumer mesh solution, usually single vendor solution is preferred. And even within the same vendor, they may have different incompatible mesh solutions (eg: TP-Link Deco vs EasyMesh, Netgear Orbi vs Easymesh based Nighthawek mesh system, Linksys Velop vs Easymesh based E-series).

2. On the other hand, some experts in this forum may not like to use the word "mesh". Their definition of mesh is more like the 802.11s.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11s

3. And some other experts may treat mesh as not necessary either -- they can use different APs together and use other measures to achieve seamless roaming (carefully seperate the APs, tune the transmission power, etc). And indeed commercial grade APs may have good roaming assistant to help achieving roaming performance. Comsumer routers configured in AP mode may not have good roaming assistant though.

4. Yet there are other experts may think it is okay to use different brand together as long as they support 802.11 k/v/r (usually 802.11 kv or 802.11 kvr).

5. Some people also prefer to use cheaper OpenWRT router and use 802.11s (or 802.11r) to form cost effective mesh solutions.

6. All in all, there are different opinions, as long as the end results can be met, that is good enough.

7. I think Dongknows covers good basic of consumer mesh solution. He mentioned that some online experts mock him since they think mesh with wired backhaul is no longer a mesh. But in reality consumer mesh now supports both wired backhaul and wireless backhaul.
https://dongknows.com/mesh-wi-fi-system-explained/

In a sentence, a mesh consists of multiple centrally managed Wi-Fi broadcasters working together to form a unified Wi-Fi network. Among them, there's one primary router that handles routing, network settings/features, and Internet connectivity. The rest only expand the network's coverage.

A mesh system consists of multiple Wi-Fi broadcasters (access points or extenders) that work together and can be managed in one place, such as a mobile app or the primary router unit's web user interface.

In a mesh with wireless backhauling, each satellite unit is essentially a centrally managed Wi-Fi extender. In a mesh with wired backhauling, each satellite unit is essentially a centrally managed access point.

The most significant difference between a mesh system and using multiple individually managed broadcasters is that the former gives you better ease of use, low (or no) interference between broadcasters, and seamless handoff, while the latter doesn't.
++++++++++++

for wired backhaul is there any better solutions than consumer mesh that is as easy to implement?

 

[xiaofan]

for wired backhaul is there any better solutions than consumer mesh that is as easy to implement?

Better solution, of course. Ubiquiti Unifi and TP-Link Omada are two examples.

As easy to implement, not sure, it probably depends on your definition of "easy to implement".

For example, you can probably hire a contractor to help you install Ubiquiti Unifi solution for you. Not so sure if that falls in the definition of "easy to implement".

SingTel FTTR is another option especially if you do not have LAN ports in the rooms.

Even for consumer mesh solutions, Netgear Singapore provides paid on-site installation support for higher end Netgear Orbi based mesh solution. Singtel provides Home Priority Plus plan (2Gbps, Singtel ONR) with Netgear Orbi based solution as well -- with "Bespoke installation" and "Priority service and on-site technical support within 2 hour".

 

[Lexng88]

DO NOT read too much about the coverage claimed by the vendor -- they are mostly not applicable in Singapore. The number of nodes required depend on the floor plan, the placement, the expectation and then the mesh solution used. Placement is very important. You may want to post your floor plan to see if there is a way to optimize the placement to reduce the number of nodes from three to two if you upgrade to a better mesh solution.

As for WiFi 7, remember WiFi 7 is not the same as 6GHz even though 6GHz is an important upgrader of WiFi 6E/7 vs WiFi 6. And high end WiFi 7 solution is actually using quad-band solution (eg: Netgear Orbi 970, Asus ZenWiFi BQ16).

If you talk about WiFi 7 vs WiFi 6 vs WiFi 5, the vendor's top of the line mesh solution will usually be better than previous generation, due to the improvement in terms of technology like better antenna design and better WiFi chipset used (including FEM). WiFi technology improvement may also contribute a bit but there is a limit. After all, Tx power of the router and clients are limited by local regulations.

Going back to Netgear, the new generation will be better than the older generation, but the cost is also super high. I would not recommend Netgear Orbi high end WiFi 6E/7 solution unless you need to use Wireless Backhaul and/or you live in multi-storey flats and you are really willing to pay for it.
Netgear Orbi 970 (quad-band WiFi 7) > Orbi 960 (quad-band WiFi 6E) > Orbi 860/850 (triband WiFi 6)

Do you have LAN ports in the rooms? If yes, then no need to consider Netgear Orbi.

Wifi 7 router less wall penetration than Wifi 6 router. Wifi 7 better on open space. Review from using BE85.

 

[xiaofan]

Better solution, of course. Ubiquiti Unifi and TP-Link Omada are two examples.

As easy to implement, not sure, it probably depends on your definition of "easy to implement".

For example, you can probably hire a contractor to help you install Ubiquiti Unifi solution for you. Not so sure if that falls in the definition of "easy to implement".

SingTel FTTR is another option especially if you do not have LAN ports in the rooms.

Even for consumer mesh solutions, Netgear Orbi provides paid on-site installation support.

Then there are also people who like to reuse consumer APs (mix brands) to form a DIY "mesh" solution. In fact, consumer WiFi 6 routers will usually support IEEE 802.11 k/v or k/v/r (as they can usually form mesh with themselves), so it may well work for "seamless" roaming even if you mix them. Configure one of the better ones as the main router, configure the others as AP and use the same SSID/Password with the main router. The results may be pretty good.

The older WiFi 5 routers may not have good support of IEEE 802.11 k/v/r, still there are people who are using them to form DIY mesh solution. They use methods like tuning the TX power and carefully plan the placement. And often they can get good results as well.

But the above is probably not considered as "easy to implement" as consumer mesh solution with Ethernet backhaul and may not be better either.

 

[xiaofan]

Wifi 7 router less wall penetration than Wifi 6 router. Wifi 7 better on open space. Review from using BE85.

You can say 6GHz band has less penetration power than 5GHz band in general.
But I would not generalize and say WiFi 7 rourers has less capabilities to penetrate the wall. It also depends on the vendor and models. Take note true WiFi 7 routers (not the ones from China) are anyway triband or quad-band. So they have 5GHz bandjust like the WiFi 6 routers.

Example:
Current generation of Asus WiFi 7 routers are high end and they will have better or similar wireless coverage as Asus's high end WiFi 6 routers.

 

[i-Movies]

DO NOT read too much about the coverage claimed by the vendor -- they are mostly not applicable in Singapore. The number of nodes required depend on the floor plan, the placement, the expectation and then the mesh solution used. Placement is very important. You may want to post your floor plan to see if there is a way to optimize the placement to reduce the number of nodes from three to two if you upgrade to a better mesh solution.

As for WiFi 7, remember WiFi 7 is not the same as 6GHz even though 6GHz is an important upgrader of WiFi 6E/7 vs WiFi 6. And high end WiFi 7 solution is actually using quad-band solution (eg: Netgear Orbi 970, Asus ZenWiFi BQ16).

If you talk about WiFi 7 vs WiFi 6 vs WiFi 5, the vendor's top of the line mesh solution will usually be better than previous generation, due to the improvement in terms of technology like better antenna design and better WiFi chipset used (including FEM). WiFi technology improvement may also contribute a bit but there is a limit. After all, Tx power of the router and clients are limited by local regulations.

Going back to Netgear, the new generation will be better than the older generation, but the cost is also super high. I would not recommend Netgear Orbi high end WiFi 6E/7 solution unless you need to use Wireless Backhaul and/or you live in multi-storey flats and you are really willing to pay for it.
Netgear Orbi 970 (quad-band WiFi 7) > Orbi 960 (quad-band WiFi 6E) > Orbi 860/850 (triband WiFi 6)

Do you have LAN ports in the rooms? If yes, then no need to consider Netgear Orbi.

Here is the layout.

Wireless backhaul.

I also disabled Daisy-Chain so node 1 & 2 directly connect to Orbi Router.

Location b is nearly unusable without node 2. I believe that the walls and wardrobe obstructing the path between location b and the router/node 1 have significantly weakened the signal.

Can't relocate router due to where FTP is installed.

I am not sure how many nodes I need if I change to Wi-Fi 7 mesh such as Deco BE2200

 

[Apparatus]

Here is the layout.

Wireless backhaul.

I also disabled Daisy-Chain so node 1 & 2 directly connect to Orbi Router.

Location b is nearly unusable without node 2. I believe that the walls and wardrobe obstructing the path between location b and the router/node 1 have significantly weakened the signal.

Can't relocate router due to where FTP is installed.

I am not sure how many nodes I need if I change to Wi-Fi 7 mesh such as Deco BE2200

Can move node 2 as below? If you can label the rooms, kitchen, hall, store room, balcony etc would be better

 

[xiaofan]

Here is the layout.

Wireless backhaul.

I also disabled Daisy-Chain so node 1 & 2 directly connect to Orbi Router.

Location b is nearly unusable without node 2. I believe that the walls and wardrobe obstructing the path between location b and the router/node 1 have significantly weakened the signal.

Can't relocate router due to where FTP is installed.

I am not sure how many nodes I need if I change to Wi-Fi 7 mesh such as Deco BE2200

Using wireless backhaul is always more difficult.

On the other hand, you can carry out experiments using your current Orbi RBK50 mesh systems. For example, you can remove Node 1 and see if the coverage for Point a is still okay or not.

From the results of Point a/b/c, looks like Point b is the problem and there seems to be a thick wall between Node 2 and Point b. So one possibility is as what Apparatus suggested to move Node 2 up to avoid the thick wall, And by doing that, you may be able to get rid of Node 1.

 

[i-Movies]

Using wireless backhaul is always more difficult.

Can move node 2 as below? If you can label the rooms, kitchen, hall, store room, balcony etc would be better

On the other hand, you can carry out experiments using your current Orbi RBK50 mesh systems. For example, you can remove Node 1 and see if the coverage for Point a is still okay or not.

From the results of Point a/b/c, looks like Point b is the problem and there seems to be a thick wall between Node 2 and Point b. So one possibility is as what Apparatus suggested to move Node 2 up to avoid the thick wall, And by doing that, you may be able to get rid of Node 1.

I try to avoid marking the walls in the apartment and dislike seeing the visible pipes.

I considered either moving node 2 upward or moving node 1 to the right so that location B is not obstructed by two walls. This area is outside the guest washroom, and I would require a wall-mount where the wires would be visible, which I do not prefer.

If I decide not to change the router/node locations and instead use Wi-Fi 7 mesh:

1. Will I still need node 2?
2. If I position the Wi-Fi 7 mesh exactly like the current setup with a total of 3 nodes, will I experience improved speed at each location?

 

[xiaofan]

I try to avoid marking the walls in the apartment and dislike seeing the visible pipes.

I considered either moving node 2 upward or moving node 1 to the right so that location B is not obstructed by two walls. This area is outside the guest washroom, and I would require a wall-mount where the wires would be visible, which I do not prefer.

If I decide not to change the router/node locations and instead use Wi-Fi 7 mesh:

1. Will I still need node 2?
2. If I position the Wi-Fi 7 mesh exactly like the current setup with a total of 3 nodes, will I experience improved speed at each location?

Hard to predict, it depends on the mesh solution you go with.

On the other hand, I tend to think answer to Question 2 will be yes. I would even venture to answer yes to Question 1 as well.

Disclaim: the answer may not be correct. Proceed at your own risk.

 

[Apparatus]

I try to avoid marking the walls in the apartment and dislike seeing the visible pipes.

I considered either moving node 2 upward or moving node 1 to the right so that location B is not obstructed by two walls. This area is outside the guest washroom, and I would require a wall-mount where the wires would be visible, which I do not prefer.

If I decide not to change the router/node locations and instead use Wi-Fi 7 mesh:

1. Will I still need node 2?
2. If I position the Wi-Fi 7 mesh exactly like the current setup with a total of 3 nodes, will I experience improved speed at each location?

Regardless of what mesh you use, for best setup using wireless backhaul, make sure

Router => nodes => device (PC/laptop/tablet/hp/tv ec) must be in direct line-of-sight i.e. the device must SEE the node which in turn must SEE the router without obstruction in-between. Obstructions such as single hollow brick wall or hollow wooden door are the minimum allowable VS solid wooden door, structural members (column, solid wall etc), layers of hollow brick walls, wardrobe, shelves filled with books etc because the latter group will either reflect or absorb the wireless signal.

So whether you want to use one node or more you have to decide based on your situation

 

[xiaofan]

Regardless of what mesh you use, for best setup using wireless backhaul, make sure

router => nodes => device (PC/laptop/tablet/hp/tv ec) must be in direct line-of-sight i.e. the device must SEE the node which in turn must SEE the router without obstruction in-between

So whether you want to use one node or more you decide based on your situation

Indeed this is a good guideline. Unfortunately this is usually not feasible. So it is better to use Ethernet backhaul whenever possible.

If using wireless backhaul is a must, and if it is not possible to have line of sight, then at least try to avoid thick wall in between the wireless mesh node and the main node, and between the device and the mesh/main nodes.

Yet the other solution is to use Powerline Backhaul which sacrifices performance in exchange of better coverage. You do not have many optons though. Asus ZenWiFi XP4 and TP-Link Deco PX50 are two examples, only WiFi 6 and not WiFi 7. Huawei has the Q2 Pro Power Line (G.hn) mesh solution as well.

Reference:
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/threads/how-to-choose-a-mesh-router.6452151/

8. Special solution with Powerline backhaul (lower performance but good coverage if you do not have LAN ports in the rooms):
Asus Zenwifi XP4 (AX1800+AV1300)
TP-Link Deco PX50 (AX3000 + G.hn G1500)

 

[Apparatus]

Indeed this is a good guideline. Unfortunately this is usually not feasible. So it is better to use Ethernet backhaul whenever possible.

If using wireless backhaul is a must, and if it is not possible to have line of sight, then at least try to avoid thick wall in between the wireless mesh node and the main node, and between the device and the mesh/main nodes.

Yet the other solution is to use Powerline Backhaul which sacrifices performance in exchange of better coverage. You do not have many optons though. Asus ZenWiFi XP4 and TP-Link Deco PX50 are two examples, only WiFi 6 and not WiFi 7. Huawei has the Q2 Pro Power Line (G.hn) mesh solution as well.

Reference:
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/threads/how-to-choose-a-mesh-router.6452151/

8. Special solution with Powerline backhaul (lower performance but good coverage if you do not have LAN ports in the rooms):
Asus Zenwifi XP4 (AX1800+AV1300)
TP-Link Deco PX50 (AX3000 + G.hn G1500)

He wants to use wireless backhaul so I just gave him some suggestions for wireless backhaul. He has to decide how many node(s) to use.

Feasible or not depends on the house layout. I'm not staying in BTO but standard HDB flat. If use wireless backhaul with 2 nodes is not an issue. For me I won't be using wireless backhaul since I have LAN cables running into my 3 rooms, kitchen and balcony.

I'm also using powerline adapters and I say don't use them

The other better option is to use MoCA. But for current it's only up to 2.5G. You can make use of the SCV and/or TV points in your rooms and hall

 

[xiaofan]

He wants to use wireless backhaul so I just gave him some suggestions for wireless backhaul. He has to decide how many node(s) to use.
Feasible or not depends on the house layout. I'm not staying in BTO but standard HDB flat. If use wireless backhaul with 2 nodes is not an issue. For me I won't be using wireless backhaul since I have LAN cables running into my 3 rooms, kitchen and balcony.
I'm also using powerline adapters and I say don't use them
The other better option is to use MoCA. But for current it's only up to 2.5G. You can make use of the SCV and/or TV points in your rooms and hall

Good suggestion to use Moca and it is much better than Power Line (power line got no way to achieve above 500Mbps in practical setup here in Singapore). My AV2000 powerline adapters can only achieve 100Mbps to 250Mbps in different rooms.

 

[Apparatus]

Good suggestion to use Moca and it is much better than Power Line (power line got no way to achieve above 500Mbps in practical setup here in Singapore). My AV2000 powerline adapters can only achieve 100Mbps to 250Mbps in different rooms.

You need to use the original power points then you can get good results. If you use those extended power points then the result would not be good. And also depend on how many devices connected between 2 points

 

[xiaofan]

You need to use the original power points then you can get good results. If you use those extended power points then the result would not be good. And also depend on how many devices connected between 2 points

I know, but even in the idea situation (other than in the same power strip), I have not seen any test results reported above 500Mbps from the Internet.

If you see such reports, let me know. Thanks.

 

[ahhian]

Saw the new Ruijie WiFi7 BE72Pro router on pre-order. Shipping 1st May. Reasonably priced too at 699 rmb pre-order price.

What's interesting is it having 5 2.5G and 4 1G ports and 9 antenna.

Can't find any reviews on it yet. Maybe 1st May will have.

But can see quick unboxing of BE72Pro

 

[xiaofan]

News about ZTE BE5100 and BE5100 Pro+.
https://www.acwifi.net/27402.html