The Buddha and his Teachings, according to Suttas in the Pali Canon

[ouroboroso]

What you mentioned is spot on. Definition of Morality is indeed varies across cultures and environments.

However, in Buddhism, morality takes a unique stance. It's not about fitting norms or creating order or for self-benefit. Instead, it's rooted in cause and effect. When the Buddha attained supernormal insight, he perceived the consequences of actions clearly. He discerned that certain deeds lead to adverse outcomes, while abstaining from them cultivates lasting happiness both now and in the future.

To guide laypeople, he advocated the adoption of five precepts as fundamental moral guidelines. For those aspiring to higher spiritual goals, additional precepts are recommended.

Embracing virtues and adhering to precepts, which encompass the practice of morality, is ultimately for our own benefit. However, certain moral guidelines, like the endorsement of cannibalism in certain tribe (especially if it entails killing), don't align with Buddhism's moral framework. This misalignment stems from the understanding that killing generates negative karmic consequences, potentially leading to harm for both the perpetrators and others involved.

The Shorter Analysis of Deeds​

A small compiled list to paint the cause and effect:

1. Longevity and Short Lives:
   • Cause of Short Lives: Killing and violence towards living beings.
   • Effect: Rebirth in lower states or short human life.
   • Cause of Long Lives: Abstaining from killing and showing compassion.
   • Effect: Rebirth in higher realms or long human life.
2. Sickness and Health:
   • Cause of Sickness: Harming beings.
   • Effect: Rebirth in lower states or prone to disease.
   • Cause of Health: Non-harming.
   • Effect: Rebirth in higher realms or good health.
3. Appearance (Ugly and Beautiful):
   • Cause of Ugliness: Anger and ill-temper.
   • Effect: Rebirth in lower states or ugly appearance.
   • Cause of Beauty: Absence of anger and ill-temper.
   • Effect: Rebirth in higher realms or beautiful appearance.
4. Influence and Insignificance:
   • Cause of Insignificance: Envy and resentment.
   • Effect: Rebirth in lower states or insignificance.
   • Cause of Influence: Absence of envy.
   • Effect: Rebirth in higher realms or influence.
5. Wealth and Poverty:
   • Cause of Poverty: Lack of generosity.
   • Effect: Rebirth in lower states or poverty.
   • Cause of Wealth: Generosity.
   • Effect: Rebirth in higher realms or wealth.
6. Social Status (High and Low Born):
   • Cause of Low Birth: Arrogance and disrespect.
   • Effect: Rebirth in lower states or low birth.
   • Cause of High Birth: Humility and respect.
   • Effect: Rebirth in higher realms or high birth.
7. Intelligence (Stupidity and Wisdom):
   • Cause of Stupidity: Neglecting to seek wisdom.
   • Effect: Rebirth in lower states or stupidity.
   • Cause of Wisdom: Seeking knowledge and guidance.
   • Effect: Rebirth in higher realms or wisdom.

Thanks for expounding on this.

Thus Buddha defined a code of ethics that is independent of subjective moral codes that sentient beings establish. And this is on the basis of causality - where intentions and actions produce consequences.

Would it be right to say that the karmic forces that unwholesome intentions and actions relate to give rise to unwholesome outcomes, and the karmic forces that wholesome intentions and actions relate to give rise to wholesome outcomes?

And accordingly it would not be meaningful to look at such causality through the lens of subjective morality because what is deemed moral by the subjective moral code of a culture might not be aligned with what is deemed wholesome according to Buddha's code of ethics, and vice versa?

 

[BennyQ]

Thanks for expounding on this.

Thus Buddha defined a code of ethics that is independent of subjective moral codes that sentient beings establish. And this is on the basis of causality - where intentions and actions produce consequences.

Would it be right to say that the karmic forces that unwholesome intentions and actions relate to give rise to unwholesome outcomes, and the karmic forces that wholesome intentions and actions relate to give rise to wholesome outcomes?

And accordingly it would not be meaningful to look at such causality through the lens of subjective morality because what is deemed moral by the subjective moral code of a culture might not be aligned with what is deemed wholesome according to Buddha's code of ethics, and vice versa?

All this "wisdom" comes from long ago as someone said 2000yrs ago.

Now with the technology and science we know, it us easier to get a computer to organise and distribute resources.

We can even try to measure suffering from every individual and let the computer manage distribution of resources to minimise individual's "suffering".

Of cos due to subjectivity, each individual can still suffer and suspect things are unfair for himself. Nothing we do as individuals will change how others feel. That's why the only wisdom u need is that your feelings are meaningless.

 

[XuishX]

Tbh, to get enlightened or to follow Buddhist teaching is extremely simple.

Think, move and behave like a child as an adult.

Just image yourself as a child in adult form. Enjoy daily affairs with no lust, no jealousy, no gluttony, no proudness, no laziness, no greediness, no wrath to anyone (parents will know this part for children ya).

Let go of what you had learnt during the puberty and maturity stage of your life and live like a child, you will eventually get enlightened. It is THAT easy.

Meanwhile, let me take care of my tamagotchi and my digimon. While doing that, I am considering joining digimon TCG Asia championship while being a parent of 2 kids + global senior manager in fintech industry with no degree


Not to say - I am also target of head turners

 

[XuishX]

Just an extra note: everyone is a god. Whether anyone manifest themselves as a god or not depends on themselves.

 

[XuishX]

Oh ya, before I sign off. There are 3 things I had forgot to mention.

1) be kind
2) gain credit through kind actions
4) lesson learned through experiences

These are the 3 most basic things people should know before seeking enlightenment. In life, these are the only 3 things people bring to the afterlife and back to life.

With that said, CIAO!

 

[bigrooster]

Thanks for sharing.

There are many grey areas when we expand our gaze to other parts of the world and across creed and culture.

If you have time, please do a quick read of this article on New Guinea tribespeople known as the Korowai:

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/travel/sleeping-with-cannibals-128958913/

They practise cannibalism, and in their culture, that is moral and acceptable behaviour.

That is of course an extreme example but it is just to highlight the fact that morality is more of a continuum of subjective boundaries than a clear-cut universal standard.

Sure. But here in this thread, in order not to derail into debate of different morality standards of humankind, by morality we are mainly talking about Sila within the framework of the Dhamma.

 

[bigrooster]

Maybe I was a little harsh. But maybe also u dunno me. I have always said the suffering is hardwired in us and so we cannot trust our feelings and judgements about the world around us. I didn't need to read budhha and the noble truths or whatever to get it.

Now, my attitude to reading and religion is that it is still better to learn from experience than from religion or reading.

So many people only know how to repeat quotes but based on their opinions I know they didn't learn the really important part which is that u can't trust your feelings or instincts. It feels more like they are not learning for utility but for mere competition. So I think reading actually made real learning even harder for these people.

I agree we need to learn from experience. Sometime I wonder those 秀才 from ancient China, after passing the Imperial Exams with flying colours, they were appointed govt positions. What do they know after mugging their books for 10+ years? (they having ka kia to do the dirty job/give proposals is of course a different story, not unlike modern scholars). Sorry, I digressed.

On reading and doing, maybe for some people (like me), we need to Check (read) - Do (experience) - Review (contemplate) - Repeat.

 

[bigrooster]

Oh ya, before I sign off. There are 3 things I had forgot to mention.

1) be kind
2) gain credit through kind actions
4) lesson learned through experiences

These are the 3 most basic things people should know before seeking enlightenment. In life, these are the only 3 things people bring to the afterlife and back to life.

With that said, CIAO!

I agree with your 3 points above.

 

[BennyQ]

I agree we need to learn from experience. Sometime I wonder those 秀才 from ancient China, after passing the Imperial Exams with flying colours, they were appointed govt positions. What do they know after mugging their books for 10+ years? (they having ka kia to do the dirty job/give proposals is of course a different story, not unlike modern scholars). Sorry, I digressed.

On reading and doing, maybe for some people (like me), we need to Check (read) - Do (experience) - Review (contemplate) - Repeat.

Yah. That's the diff between readers and some writers. The guy that discover something first hand learns more than his readers.

 

[Ironside]

Have u tested your beliefs in different conditions, culture and era? Try to imagine a future world where everyone lives in virtual reality getting whatever they want for free or at no cost to others? Its like testing science vs bomoh. VR is best test for realising what comes from within u and what comes from the world outside of u.

These teachings are not for everyone. One needs to make an effort to strive. It is deep and have different progressive levels. Some will see its value rather quickly. Some will brush it aside like they think it is of no value. People are different.

 

[BennyQ]

These teachings are not for everyone. One needs to make an effort to strive. It is deep and have different progressive levels. Some will see its value rather quickly. Some will brush it aside like they think it is of no value. People are different.

Yah that's why some may better relate with other religions. Cos they are the subjective perceiver and the final judge. Heheh.

 

[Elnoxv]

Thanks for expounding on this.

Thus Buddha defined a code of ethics that is independent of subjective moral codes that sentient beings establish. And this is on the basis of causality - where intentions and actions produce consequences.

imho, the Buddha didn't define a code of ethics that is completely independent, the alignment of many moral codes in modern society with these basic precepts reflects a recognition of the practical benefits of ethical behavior in reducing harm and promoting well-being, orders both for oneself and others.

And Even if society didn't fully grasp the broader implications of karma and rebirth, it can appreciate the benefits of living ethically for the betterment of society and themselves.

Would it be right to say that the karmic forces that unwholesome intentions and actions relate to give rise to unwholesome outcomes, and the karmic forces that wholesome intentions and actions relate to give rise to wholesome outcomes?

Yes, that's correct.

Akusala kamma / unskilful/ unwholesome / evil actions will lead to black results / bad outcomes / suffering.
Kusala kamma /skillful / wholesome/ good actions will lead to white results / good outcomes / happiness.

And Psychical action (body) is not the only channel where karma can be created. Intentional actions through speech and mind could similarly create karma.

And
"Of the three channels of kamma -- bodily, verbal and mental - it is mental kamma which is considered the most important and far-reaching in its effects"

And accordingly it would not be meaningful to look at such causality through the lens of subjective morality because what is deemed moral by the subjective moral code of a culture might not be aligned with what is deemed wholesome according to Buddha's code of ethics, and vice versa?

Yes, it's true that societal morals don't always align perfectly with Buddhist ethics. For instance, actions like killing insects or small animals, drinking alcohol might be accepted in some societies but go against Buddhist principles of non-harming and actions leading to danger.

 

[bigrooster]

Lumbini, Nepal - Buddha's birthplace, according to historical accounts. (picture from Wikipedia)

 

[Elnoxv]

Have u tested your beliefs in different conditions, culture and era? Try to imagine a future world where everyone lives in virtual reality getting whatever they want for free or at no cost to others? Its like testing science vs bomoh. VR is best test for realising what comes from within u and what comes from the world outside of u.

It doesn't matter whether one is in different cultures, eras or in Hypotethical scenarios like in VR, as long as we consider the 5 aggregates as us, me and mine, I, suffering will naturally arise.

Whether it's eons in the past, now, or in the future, as long as people are not rid of their ignorance, they will suffer from dukkha. And the teaching will hold true, offering insights into the universality of human suffering and a way to the liberation.

That's one of the reasons why the teachings is said to be Akaliko or timeless nature.

Further, Buddhist teaching is not exactly new. The previous buddha also discovered the path a long time ago (Many eons ago, in different era, planet, conditions and cultures). And when the current buddhist teaching gradually fade and lost, in the future, there will be another buddha arising, rediscovering the same path again.

 

[BennyQ]

It doesn't matter whether one is in different cultures, eras or in Hypotethical scenarios like in VR, as long as we consider the 5 aggregates as us, me and mine, I, suffering will naturally arise.

Whether it's eons in the past, now, or in the future, as long as people are not rid of their ignorance, they will suffer from dukkha. And the teaching will hold true, offering insights into the universality of human suffering and a way to the liberation.

That's one of the reasons why the teachings is said to be Akaliko or timeless nature.

Further, Buddhist teaching is not exactly new. The previous buddha also discovered the path a long time ago (Many eons ago, in different era, planet, conditions and cultures). And when the current buddhist teaching gradually fade and lost, in the future, there will be another buddha arising, rediscovering the same path again.

Using ancient foreign words does not help everyone understand. Which brings to mind the real motive and personal context. Simple common sense is often enough but does little for the ego.

 

[Elnoxv]

Using ancient foreign words does not help everyone understand. Which brings to mind the real motive and personal context.

Maybe you could elaborate more on what you meant by "ancient foreign words" ? And what "real motive" and "personal context" you are referring to?

 

[JohannSu1864]

Tbh, to get enlightened or to follow Buddhist teaching is extremely simple.

Think, move and behave like a child as an adult.

Just image yourself as a child in adult form. Enjoy daily affairs with no lust, no jealousy, no gluttony, no proudness, no laziness, no greediness, no wrath to anyone (parents will know this part for children ya).

Let go of what you had learnt during the puberty and maturity stage of your life and live like a child, you will eventually get enlightened. It is THAT easy.

Meanwhile, let me take care of my tamagotchi and my digimon. While doing that, I am considering joining digimon TCG Asia championship while being a parent of 2 kids + global senior manager in fintech industry with no degree


Not to say - I am also target of head turners

U play bayblade?

 

[BennyQ]

Maybe you could elaborate more on what you meant by "ancient foreign words" ? And what "real motive" and "personal context" you are referring to?

I'm saying people that use such words like dukka or whatever don't really wish to be understood. Or worse, don't understand it themselves.

 

[AUTUMN&WINTER]

These teachings are not for everyone. One needs to make an effort to strive. It is deep and have different progressive levels. Some will see its value rather quickly. Some will brush it aside like they think it is of no value. People are different.

Yah that's why some may better relate with other religions. Cos they are the subjective perceiver and the final judge. Heheh.

Buddha's teaching is for anyone who seriously seek ultimate liberation from suffering. Those who see suffering or suffer enough will be able relate to His teaching easily.

 

[BennyQ]

"Feelings are Meaningless."
" We are hardwired or programmed by nature to fear and suffer by default to help us compete and survive."
Is this harder to understand than dukka or dharma or whatever? If so, I wonder why.