Post 10Gbps Fibre internet -- 25Gbps and 50Gbps

[xiaofan]

But then do we need to worry now?

No need. Unless you want to be future proof, then you may want to lay Fibre along with CAT6 cables.

But I think FTTR will be main stream post 10Gbps and ISPs will offer the service to lay Fibre for you.

 

[d3adc3II]

That depends on how you define "very expensive" and "very far away".
And it may be available in Singapore in 2028 or 4 years later.

Reference pricing
1) HKBN's 25Gbps plan is available now and below HKD1000 (about S$167) per month.
2) Init7 in Switzerland offers 25Gbps service at CHF64.75 (about S$100) per month and one time CHF222 (S$343) setup fee.
https://www.init7.net/en/internet/fiber7/

Fiber7 Fiber-optic Internet
10/10 or 25/25 Gbit/sec (download/upload)
Incl. TV7
Fixed IPv4 addresses available (acitvate nerd mode for further information)
Setup fee*: one-time CHF 77 (10 Gbit/s) or CHF 222 (25 Gbit/s)
CHF 64.75/month with annual billing (CHF 777/year)

Damn , 167 sgd only for 25Gbps line ? If its in Singapore, i will be the first one go sign for it.

 

[yukita]

Damn , 167 sgd only for 25Gbps line ? If its in Singapore, i will be the first one go sign for it.

why you need such high speed?

 

[CoolRock]

also cannot reach such speeds for international traffic, no point really.

 

[xiaofan]

also cannot reach such speeds for international traffic, no point really.

It depends on what you want.

Every time I upgrade to a new plan, I use it as a chance to learn new things. Now I treat learning home networking as a hobby. It is much cheaper than playing with Hi-Fi or Photography.

S$1000 spent in year 2023, to upgrade some gears to 2.5G.
S$1000 spent so far in year 2024 to upgrade to mix 2.5G/10G stuff. Maybe more to come (missing true WiFi 7 router with 6GHz band and 10G WAN port).

 

[xiaofan]

I see the initial investment for 25G may be high when it is launched (say in 2028) but down the road it may be acceptable (say in 2030). Usually I will not go for the high end plan when it is first launched.

 

[Henry Ng]

also cannot reach such speeds for international traffic, no point really.

I strongly agree with you as now can not even really reach 10 Gbps and in fact some can not even reach 1Gbps.

 

[Henry Ng]

Damn , 167 sgd only for 25Gbps line ? If its in Singapore, i will be the first one go sign for it.

May be it is $260+/ mth for 25 Gbps.

 

[Jurong640]

And we can always argue that 500Mbps is enough, that does not prevent ISPs to phase out 500Mbps services to new users. M1 is the last one to do it.

Soon we may see 1Gbps services (M1 and Starhub Homehub+ 1Gbps) gone. Then after that GPON based 2Gbps / 2.5Gbps services.

Eventually all GPON based services will be gone. Maybe WC 2.5Gbps will be the last one.

Hopefully one day soon, M1 will phase out the 500mbps and 1gbps plan. Make 2.5gbps the new normal. We need to stop the talk about 500mbps is enough. If m1 continues 500mbps, they will have hard time to manage these sets of customers while other people move on to 2.5gbps and 10gbps.

M1 can actually upgrade all 500mbps customers free to 1gbps for the same price of 500mbps. And those 1gbps customers to 2.5gbps since it's same price. Only those who recontract to 2.5gbps will get the newer free routers.

 

[xiaofan]

May be it is $260+/ mth for 25 Gbps.

It will be around S$100 to S$150 per month depending on the router bundle, when it is launched in 2028.

At that time 10Gbps will be the norm at S$40 to S$60 per month depending on the router bundle(not counting WC and SIMBA).

 

[BBCWatcher]

This kind of complacency and not wanting to adopt new technology, thinking that what they have is good enough is what led to Australia having one of the slowest internet speeds in the world.

And yet Australia is the happiest country in Asia-Pacific.

also cannot reach such speeds for international traffic, no point really.

Yes, the notional line speed into your home is only a constraint when nothing else upstream or downstream is a constraint. And even then the constraint may not matter. For example, how much do you care if it takes 2 minutes instead of 1 minute to download an update for your mobile phone or laptop — especially if it takes 30 minutes to install? Will it be worth paying extra to install an update in 31 minutes instead of 32 minutes?

Hopefully one day soon, M1 will phase out the 500mbps and 1gbps plan.

M1 has very recently (only days ago) discontinued their 500 Mb/s plan for new subscribers.

Make 2.5gbps the new normal.

Well, could the ISPs at least provide /56 IPv6 services? If you want to talk about lagging behind, start with that.

We need to stop the talk about 500mbps is enough.

We can stop if you like. Nobody is offering anything below 1.0 Gb/s to new subscribers.

M1 can actually upgrade all 500mbps customers free to 1gbps for the same price of 500mbps.

They could, but they didn't do that. Instead of $30.45 per month (500 Mb/s plan) they're charging $36.90 per month (1.0 Gb/s plan). "Be careful what you wish for."

And those 1gbps customers to 2.5gbps since it's same price.

M1 charges $39.90 per month ($3 per month more / $72 per 24 month contract) for 2.5 Gb/s. This is called price discrimination. It's like a tax on people who need more than 1.0 Gb/s (a small number of people) and who think "faster" Internet will solve their (other) problems (a larger number of people). And there's already a $6.45 per month tax now that 500 Mb/s is no longer available.

However, WhizComms is available at $21.80 per month (about $26.67 per month inclusive of initial fees and assuming one renewal at the same price since they're offering this price on a 12 month contract). That's for 2.5 Gb/s to the ONR thence 1000BASE-T ports. (You need to use multiple ports if you want to consume anything above about 1.0 Gb/s.)

Only those who recontract to 2.5gbps will get the newer free routers.

No, anybody can go buy a wireless router with a 2.5 GbE WAN port on the open market. Whatever the ISP offers (and embeds in the cost of their service plan) may or may not be suitable equipment.

 

[Henry Ng]

It will be around S$100 to S$150 per month depending on the router bundle, when it is launched in 2028.

At that time 10Gbps will be the norm at S$40 to S$60 per month depending on the router bundle(not counting WC and SIMBA).

How you know the price will be in 2028 for 25 Gbps? Any press release? Actually now 10 Gbps is only $59.90/mth for ONR users.

 

[Henry Ng]

And yet Australia is the happiest country in Asia-Pacific.

Yes, the notional line speed into your home is only a constraint when nothing else upstream or downstream is a constraint. And even then the constraint may not matter. For example, how much do you care if it takes 2 minutes instead of 1 minute to download an update for your mobile phone or laptop — especially if it takes 30 minutes to install? Will it be worth paying extra to install an update in 31 minutes instead of 32 minutes?

M1 has very recently (only days ago) discontinued their 500 Mb/s plan for new subscribers.

Well, could the ISPs at least provide /56 IPv6 services? If you want to talk about lagging behind, start with that.

We can stop if you like. Nobody is offering anything below 1.0 Gb/s to new subscribers.

They could, but they didn't do that. Instead of $30.45 per month (500 Mb/s plan) they're charging $36.90 per month (1.0 Gb/s plan). "Be careful what you wish for."

M1 charges $39.90 per month ($3 per month more / $72 per 24 month contract) for 2.5 Gb/s. This is called price discrimination. It's like a tax on people who need more than 1.0 Gb/s (a small number of people) and who think "faster" Internet will solve their (other) problems (a larger number of people). And there's already a $6.45 per month tax now that 500 Mb/s is no longer available.

However, WhizComms is available at $21.80 per month (about $26.67 per month inclusive of initial fees and assuming one renewal at the same price since they're offering this price on a 12 month contract). That's for 2.5 Gb/s to the ONR thence 1000BASE-T ports. (You need to use multiple ports if you want to consume anything above about 1.0 Gb/s.)

No, anybody can go buy a wireless router with a 2.5 GbE WAN port on the open market. Whatever the ISP offers (and embeds in the cost of their service plan) may or may not be suitable equipment.

I think $3 more for 2.5 Gbps is a good deal.

 

[BBCWatcher]

I think $3 more for 2.5 Gbps is a good deal.

It's a bad deal if you don't get at least $3 worth of benefit from it.

 

[seowbin]

TBH, all these is marketing gimmick

M1 release 2.5g to squeeze out the last bit of juice from their legacy GPON infra
GPON infra all the while is 2.5g down and 1.25g up but our local ISP capped it to 1g download and 1g up (some ISP used to limit it to 500mbps up only) so that the bandwidth-hungry neighbours don't suck up everything from the shared pool

With XGSPON, this shared pool is increased to 10G up and 10G down. The chance of hungry neighbors sucking up 10G up/down is very rare.

 

[xiaofan]

How you know the price will be in 2028 for 25 Gbps? Any press release? Actually now 10 Gbps is only $59.90/mth for ONR users.

We are all guessing mah.

Just remember back in 2016, SingTel/M1 10Gbps were at S$189 per month using XG-PON technology. Superinternet 10Gbps used better technology and it was at S$199 per month.

So my guess is that initial launch price of 25Gbps would be lower since it is less a jump from 10G to 25G, compare to the 1G to 10G jump back in 2016.

 

[xiaofan]

Well, could the ISPs at least provide /56 IPv6 services? If you want to talk about lagging behind, start with that.

This is a good point though.

Things are moving a little bit now but still too slow. Singtel is the main culprit but VQ/MR is also bad.

1) SingTel is deploying native IPv6 with /56 prefix delegation, but only to selected areas and only for ONT users. For ONR users you have to request through SingTel.

And now I get SingTel native IPv6 with my ZTE XGS-PON ONR, but it does not delegate further to sub routers (Double NAT setup) and I have to use strange things like NAT66 on OpenWRT and 6rd on Asus RT-AX86U.

Previously I could have /64 for the sub-routers when I was using ONT and Singtel 1Gbps plan.

2) SingTel and Starhub now offer native IPv6 to 5G SA mobile phones.

3) SIMBA starts to offer IPv6 to 10Gbps plan users, but not yet for 2.5Gbps plan users.

 

[BBCWatcher]

Things are moving a little bit now but still too slow.

According to this map Singapore is at 22.89% IPv6 capable and 17.63% IPv6 preferred. The world as a whole is at 38.41% and 37.05% respectively. Asia is at 44.95% and 43.04% respectively. When averaging these two percentages Singapore is slightly behind Pakistan as another point of reference.

I wouldn't mind using Hurricane Electric (IPv6 tunnel), but the streaming services such as Netflix get upset if I turn that on. (Yes, there are awkward workarounds.)

 

[HiHelloBye]

so much speed for what

 

[Henry Ng]

It's a bad deal if you don't get at least $3 worth of benefit from it.

The $3 different is because M1 gave the 1Gbps user a discounted price and not 2.5G user paying extra. The standard retailer price for 1Gbps plan is $39.90 since many years ago. I was with M1 earlier. Now 2.5G plan at the price of 1Gbps. That is not all, 2.5G user get a better router.