CPF Account Value Thread 2024

[maumu]

can anyone explain:
- do our monthly income contributions (20% of monthly salary + 17% from employer) count towards the VC limit of $37,740?
- any way we can check how much we have already contributed up till today?

 

[reddevil0728]

can anyone explain:
- do our monthly income contributions (20% of monthly salary + 17% from employer) count towards the VC limit of $37,740?

Yes

- any way we can check how much we have already contributed up till today?

You mean employment income?

 

[culture_counter]

How do you define CPF millionaire? Include which CPF accounts?

 

[laokorkor]

How do you define CPF millionaire? Include which CPF accounts?

The CPF board statistics seems to prefer a methodology known as regrossed balance, ie. OA+SA+MA+RA+investment account+housing principal+accrued interest.

 

[Slowdown]

How do you define CPF millionaire? Include which CPF accounts?

The CPF board statistics seems to prefer a methodology known as regrossed balance, ie. OA+SA+MA+RA+investment account+housing principal+accrued interest.

I would deem what is withdrawable at 55. Meaning only OA balance should be considered when defining CPF Millionaire. No point putting gross on something that we cannot realistically cash out. CPF Life. Housing. Medisave. These we can't cash out unless we leave Singapore.

 

[reddevil0728]

How do you define CPF millionaire? Include which CPF accounts?

I don't think there's a universally agreed definition. so depends on what u want to count or not count?

 

[laokorkor]

I would deem what is withdrawable at 55. Meaning only OA balance should be considered when defining CPF Millionaire. No point putting gross on something that we cannot realistically cash out. CPF Life. Housing. Medisave. These we can't cash out unless we leave Singapore.

You can cash out all if you leave Singapore permanently, or, you "raised lorry", in which case the entire sum will become your bequest. It seems like if you can prove that you've terminal illness, that too will allow you to withdraw all.

 

[maumu]

...

You mean employment income?

no I mean how much we have already contributed towards the VC limit, whether consciously (ownself use the portal to top up) or through income contributions.

the max we can top up/contribute per year is $80k for tax relief right? but if VC limit is $37,740, how do we know whether we have already maxed out the VC part?

still blur about all these limits and stuff...

 

[Slowdown]

You can cash out all if you leave Singapore permanently, or, you "raised lorry", in which case the entire sum will become your bequest. It seems like if you can prove that you've terminal illness, that too will allow you to withdraw all.

Hence I used the word 'realistically'. As in what a normal person would do.

 

[lzydata]

no I mean how much we have already contributed towards the VC limit, whether consciously (ownself use the portal to top up) or through income contributions.

the max we can top up/contribute per year is $80k for tax relief right? but if VC limit is $37,740, how do we know whether we have already maxed out the VC part?

still blur about all these limits and stuff...

It's the annual limit that is $37,740, not VC. And you can just tally up the contributions from your CPF transaction history to see if they are reaching $37,740, isn't it?

 

[laokorkor]

Hence I used the word 'realistically'. As in what a normal person would do.

If your KPI is to withdraw cold hard cash at 55, then yes, OA and part of SA can be withdrawn at that stage. That amount will be your "realistic" amount as per your KPI.

Before 55, you can withdraw from OA too! You can invest in stocks, ETF, Unit Trusts, housing etc. Your property can be rented out to collect rental. One of my auntie does that to collect cold hard cash in the form of rental, CPF board has no problem with that.

After 65, you can collect CPF LIFE payout. Isn't that money too? Maybe not as per your KPI, but that's part of Singaporeans retirement income which is not available in many foreign countries.

When you fall sick, MA comes into play instead of forking out from the pocket. Compared to someone who doesn't have MA savings, don't you consider yourself blessed? That too is cold hard cash!

 

[Slowdown]

If your KPI is to withdraw cold hard cash at 55, then yes, OA and part of SA can be withdrawn at that stage. That amount will be your "realistic" amount as per your KPI.

Before 55, you can withdraw from OA too! You can invest in stocks, ETF, Unit Trusts, housing etc. Your property can be rented out to collect rental. One of my auntie does that to collect cold hard cash in the form of rental, CPF board has no problem with that.

After 65, you can collect CPF LIFE payout. Isn't that money too? Maybe not as per your KPI, but that's part of Singaporeans retirement income which is not available in many foreign countries.

When you fall sick, MA comes into play instead of forking out from the pocket. Compared to someone who doesn't have MA savings, don't you consider yourself blessed? That too is cold hard cash!

Everything you said is valid. CPF is our money. I don't deny those are cold hard cash. However there are restriction in how we can access the money. Hence, I don't consider them when defining Millionaire. If today I go to the bank and take a million dollar loan. Does that make me a millionaire? If I sell my kidneys, I can afford an iphone (old story from china). Does that means I can afford to buy an iphone?

Why do you want to pretty up the picture?

Many people calls Sporean rich people. Have property. Have CPF. Are we really rich?

You made a valid point that we can use our CPF for investment. I missed that out as I don't have any investment. I agreed we can consider that. My revised definition is OA Balance + SA Balance + CPFIS minus FRS. I think it is a realistic and reasonable definition. There are definitely many CPF Millionaires even using this narrower definition. Just not based on the wider definition 'OA+SA+MA+RA+investment account+housing principal+accrued interest'.

 

[Mephist0pheLes]

Everything you said is valid. CPF is our money. I don't deny those are cold hard cash. However there are restriction in how we can access the money. Hence, I don't consider them when defining Millionaire. If today I go to the bank and take a million dollar loan. Does that make me a millionaire? If I sell my kidneys, I can afford an iphone (old story from china). Does that means I can afford to buy an iphone?

Why do you want to pretty up the picture?

Many people calls Sporean rich people. Have property. Have CPF. Are we really rich?

You made a valid point that we can use our CPF for investment. I missed that out as I don't have any investment. I agreed we can consider that. My revised definition is OA Balance + SA Balance + CPFIS minus FRS. I think it is a realistic and reasonable definition. There are definitely many CPF Millionaires even using this narrower definition. Just not based on the wider definition 'OA+SA+MA+RA+investment account+housing principal+accrued interest'.

When you take a million dollar loan, your liability also increases by a million dollar, so your net financial position does not change. Unless the person has no concept of liability and assets, ppl dont usually consider themselve millionaire because they take a million dollar loan.

if u have to sell/pawn something to buy something, it means u cannot afford it, not sure what's the confusion here.

i've never encountered anyone adding their housing principal and accured interest when counting their CPF monies. did u jus imagine the scenario for argument sake? even if there are really such ppl, the right thing to do is to correct their misconception about accrued interest and why housing principal sld not be counted as part of CPF monies.

 

[Slowdown]

When you take a million dollar loan, your liability also increases by a million dollar, so your net financial position does not change. Unless the person has no concept of liability and assets, ppl dont usually consider themselve millionaire because they take a million dollar loan.

if u have to sell/pawn something to buy something, it means u cannot afford it, not sure what's the confusion here.

i've never encountered anyone adding their housing principal and accured interest when counting their CPF monies. did u jus imagine the scenario for argument sake? even if there are really such ppl, the right thing to do is to correct their misconception about accrued interest and why housing principal sld not be counted as part of CPF monies.

I did not come out with that definition. Please refer to post #127. That definition was posted by Laokorkor. Not sure if even himself agrees with the definition.

I googled what is a CPF Millionaire. Even AI returned the below definiton:

A CPF millionaire is someone who has a total of more than $1 million in their CPF balances and other assets after subtracting their liabilities. CPF balances include those in the Ordinary Account (OA), Special Account (SA), MediSave Account (MA), and Retirement Account (RA).

I personally don't agreed to include MA and RA. Like I said in my earlier posting. I only consider component that we have access from a realisatic point. At 55 after we have settle our FRS obligation, we are free to withdraw our OA and SA balance. I considered those component. I also agreed to consider CPFIS. Other component I don't agree. Even if they are not liabilities (MA and RA).

Post #127 consider housing principal and accrued interest because those components can be monetize after we sell our home and return the proceeds to CPF. I argued that we should not consider it because it is not realistic that people will sell their only home. I only consider component of the CPF that can be monetized realistically.

 

[highsulphur]

can anyone explain:
- do our monthly income contributions (20% of monthly salary + 17% from employer) count towards the VC limit of $37,740?
- any way we can check how much we have already contributed up till today?

Can try calling cpf directly to ask

But you can tabulate yourself from your statements

 

[maumu]

I keep seeing this "$20,400" under Personal Relief > Provident Fund/Life Insurance on my income tax every year.

Anyone knows how this $20,400 derived from?

P.S. sorry for deviating off-course towards income tax matters...

 

[highsulphur]

I keep seeing this "$20,400" under Personal Relief > Provident Fund/Life Insurance on my income tax every year.

Anyone knows how this $20,400 derived from?

P.S. sorry for deviating off-course towards income tax matters...

That's your employee cpf contribution

20% of annual wage cap of 102k

 

[maumu]

That's your employee cpf contribution

20% of annual wage cap of 102k

am I right to say that if our 20% + 17% contribution already meets $37,740, then there's no necessity to make CPF top up, except for just our own medisave account (capped at $8k for max tax relief) and for parents (capped at $8k for max tax relief)?

 

[reddevil0728]

am I right to say that if our 20% + 17% contribution already meets $37,740, then there's no necessity to make CPF top up, except for just our own medisave account (capped at $8k for max tax relief) and for parents (capped at $8k for max tax relief)?

Can be to SA also but yes

 

[maumu]

Can be to SA also but yes

top up SA is capped at FRS right? so if reached FRS also cannot top up already..

oh well, thanks for all the knowledge shared peeps.