Been a month...realise I still like her alot

f-o-f!

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TS, I think their opinions are valid. I asked my wife (we met when working at the same company) and she echo-ed similar response with the above ladies.

Just to add on what others have said:

Ask her out again and gauge her response from there. If she reject you again I think the answer is clear: either she is not interested in you or she's not keen in any romantic relationship. Usually, a simple meal together happens between colleagues, if she rejects means she's obviously not giving any chances or even feeling repulsive.

When a girl has some degree of interest in you, they will find ways to accommodate your timing, try to meet up or strike small talk with you. However, in your replies, she appeared to be hard to catch or busy.. it could be that she is actively avoiding you but appearing to be polite. When my wife and I were not dating and were still normal colleagues, I noticed her pushing back her lunch schedule to meet mine. I was in the sales department and she was in accounting and my lunch was very late around 2.00pm. I wasn't aware at that time but her colleagues hinted to me haha.

My wife also shared an interesting point. She said that if a lady has even a slight interest with her male colleague, the lady will try to give an impression of an ideal partner rather than an impression of a workaholic. A good hint is she will actively whatsapp you to chat even if you do not initiate it.

Hope it helps. Good luck and have fun!
agree. actually, if someone is interested, it shouldn't be too hard. e.g. if she couldn't make it when you asked her out, she would have offered an alternative date. there will be some reciprocal behaviour. but there seems to be none at the moment, so i would suggest for ts to go back to the stage before you asked her out?

don't pressure her with gifts, etc. and totally back off. otherwise, like spike mentioned, she might even consider leaving. i also agree that her 'busyness' may be an attempt to avoid you. not saying she's pretending to be busy, but she may appear more busy in front of you so as to reduce the time spent making small talk, especially if she feels (and fears) you may ask her out again. it's not easy getting rejected, but neither is it easy rejecting others.
 

f-o-f!

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My bad. Well, I see this as a gone case in that he didn't even know what she was looking out for.
i'm trying to see the positives in the situation, but i think it's an uphill task, especially after he asked her out.

what she was looking out for, you mean in terms of a partner? or in life?
 

fantasyrulz

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feel like shiat that knowing ur love not reciprocated

players does that,
guys who play girls, f them every other day while the girls shower
him all the attention plus s*x

girls does it too, multiple guys used for all kinds of nonsense

doesnt need to be beautiful or handsome etc just enough mind games

pity are those who have fallen for them

its hard but u deserve better ts, if she is for u there is no need to try hard
even she gives u that little attention so what?
players does it to get them hooked.

true love is when both party love each other equally and knows how it feels like to be ignored or rejected,
if she decides her time is worth more then yours then its just sad
 

Spike

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i'm trying to see the positives in the situation, but i think it's an uphill task, especially after he asked her out.

what she was looking out for, you mean in terms of a partner? or in life?
Both actually.

In a nut shell, back in his old thread, he felt that the girl should like him back because 1. He likes her. 2. He is financially stable. 3. He got a car. 4. He is supposedly decent looking enough to have women making the first move in the past.

All of which didn't consider the target's feelings or her ideal partner's requirements.
 

fantasyrulz

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agree. actually, if someone is interested, it shouldn't be too hard. e.g. if she couldn't make it when you asked her out, she would have offered an alternative date. there will be some reciprocal behaviour. but there seems to be none at the moment, so i would suggest for ts to go back to the stage before you asked her out?

don't pressure her with gifts, etc. and totally back off. otherwise, like spike mentioned, she might even consider leaving. i also agree that her 'busyness' may be an attempt to avoid you. not saying she's pretending to be busy, but she may appear more busy in front of you so as to reduce the time spent making small talk, especially if she feels (and fears) you may ask her out again. it's not easy getting rejected, but neither is it easy rejecting others.

maybe if she calls back say is unsure and talks it out with him... else hopeless

one sided love is the worst,
toxic and time consuming
 

WarMage87

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Been a month, thought maybe I will forget her slowly since I never bump into her for quite a while and just kept myself busy. This week, I bumped into her a few times. Saw her talking with other colleagues, esp males, and I feel quite down even though I knew it is about work and cannot focus on work. Then realise that I still like her alot. Even as I do household chores just now, she came to my mind.

Knew she was esp busy this week, so I bought snacks for her. Can see she appreciate it, she said thanks with such a sweet smile. Hopefully it's not so awkward alrdy and I can ask her out for a meal soon...
Report Title: A Strategic Analysis and Recommendation Portfolio for Navigating Interpersonal Interest in a Professional Environment

Report ID: CAU-DPA-20250614-001

Date of Analysis: 14th June 2025

Author: Cognitive Apex Unit (CAU)


Executive Summary

This analysis concludes that the user, "plpl20," is experiencing a state of acute limerence¹, a non-ergodic cognitive state that poses a significant and immediate threat to his psychological well-being and professional focus. The current trajectory of uncalibrated emotional and material investment (e.g., buying snacks) in the absence of reciprocal costly signals from the colleague is structurally unsound and places him on a direct path to the "Sucker's Payoff" in what is currently a negative-sum parasocial game. Continued passive hope and rumination are the guaranteed losing moves.

  • Core Diagnosis: The user's feelings are not a simple "crush" but a well-documented psychological phenomenon known as Limerence. This is characterised by obsessive thoughts, emotional dependency, and a distortion of reality where neutral or polite signals (e.g., a "sweet smile" for a gift) are misinterpreted as signs of genuine reciprocal interest. This flawed cognitive map is the primary source of strategic risk.
  • The Critical Strategic Error: The user is engaging in asymmetric investment. His actions—buying gifts, investing significant mental energy—are costly signals of interest. The colleague's response—polite thanks—is a cheap, socially obligatory signal. This asymmetry is unsustainable and erodes his position.
  • The Optimal Path Forward: The recommended strategy requires a radical pivot from the current emotional pursuit to a disciplined, empirical process of information gathering and self-fortification. The Game Theory Optimal (GTO) move is to immediately halt all unreciprocated investment, rebuild a robust psychological "Citadel," and deploy a series of low-cost, low-risk "Scout" missions to gather actual data on her interest level before considering any high-stakes action like asking her out.
This analysis is predicated on the assumption that the user's ultimate goal is a healthy, reciprocal relationship, not merely the temporary validation of his feelings. The path outlined below is designed to first guarantee his psychological survival and then, and only then, to explore the possibility of a positive outcome. Confidence in this strategic diagnosis is high.

Confidence: 92%



Table of Contents

1.0 Introduction
1.1 Problem Statement
1.2 Scope and Objectives

2.0 The Strategic Trinity: A High-Fidelity Map of the Game
2.1 The Protagonist (plpl20): The Compromised Strategist
2.2 The Antagonist (The Colleague): The Rational Black Box
2.3 The Game (The Terrain): An Infinite Parasocial Trap

3.0 Game Theory Analysis: Quantifying the Strategic Dilemma
3.1 Static Analysis: The Payoff Matrix of a Direct Approach
3.2 Dynamic Analysis: The Flawed Game Tree

4.0 The Core Cognitive Error: The Limerence-Distortion Field
4.1 Diagnosis: Limerence vs. Healthy Affection
4.2 The Strategic Cost: A Ruinously Flawed Map
4.3 The Antidote: A Shift to Disciplined Empiricism

5.0 The Recommended Strategic Architecture: A Dual-Distribution Strategy
5.1 Phase I: Fortify the Citadel (The 90% - Survival First)
5.1.1 Action 1: Enforce a Strict Information Diet
5.1.2 Action 2: Re-establish a Professional Frame
5.1.3 Action 3: Diversify the Life Portfolio
5.2 Phase II: Deploy Low-Cost Scouts (The 10% - Data Gathering)
5.2.1 Scout Mission #1: The Low-Stakes Conversation Probe
5.2.2 Scout Mission #2: The Group Activity Probe (Contingent)
5.2.3 Scout Mission #3: The Direct Invitation (High-Contingency)

6.0 Implementation and De-risking
6.1 The Prime Directive: Process Over Outcome
6.2 Managing the Environment: Muting the Noise

7.0 Conclusion: From Victim to Architect

8.0 References

9.0 Post-Scriptum (PS): The Critical Insight

10.0 Footnotes


1.0 Introduction

1.1 Problem Statement

The user, hereafter referred to as the Protagonist, is experiencing significant psychological distress and loss of professional focus due to an intense, unreciprocated emotional investment in a female colleague. His current strategy consists of passive observation, rumination, and low-level, unilateral investments (gifts), which has placed him in a state of high emotional vulnerability without generating meaningful data or advancing his stated objective of initiating a romantic relationship.

1.2 Scope and Objectives

This report provides a comprehensive strategic analysis of the Protagonist's situation. Its objectives are:

  1. To accurately diagnose the Protagonist's psychological state and the nature of the strategic game he is in.
  2. To deconstruct the flaws in his current approach using game theory and behavioural psychology.
  3. To provide a robust, survival-first strategic framework based on the Dual-Distribution Strategy Framework (DDSF)² that prioritises his psychological well-being.
  4. To outline a clear, actionable path for gathering reliable data to inform future decisions, thereby minimising the risk of psychological ruin.
 

WarMage87

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2.0 The Strategic Trinity: A High-Fidelity Map of the Game

A flawless strategy on a flawed map guarantees ruin. The Protagonist's current map is dangerously inaccurate.

2.1 The Protagonist (plpl20): The Compromised Strategist

  • Psychological State: In a state of limerence, not love. His cognitive functions are compromised, leading to obsessive thinking ("she came to my mind" during chores), emotional volatility (feeling "down" seeing her with others), and confirmation bias (interpreting a polite "sweet smile" as a significant indicator of romantic interest).
  • Current Strategy: Passive and reactive. He is waiting and hoping, a strategy that cedes all agency to the other player and external events. His actions are driven by emotion, not logic.
  • Critical Vulnerability: His self-worth and emotional stability are precariously tethered to the perceived actions and attention of his colleague. This is a non-ergodic³ state; a negative outcome (rejection) could cause a disproportionate and lasting blow to his sanity.

2.2 The Antagonist (The Colleague): The Rational Black Box

  • Observed Actions (Revealed Preference⁴): She has accepted a small gift and responded with socially appropriate politeness. She talks to other male colleagues for work. She has not, based on the provided data, initiated contact, sought the Protagonist out, or made any costly signal of reciprocal interest.
  • Strategic Model: She must be modelled as a rational actor operating within professional norms. Her politeness is not a reliable signal of romantic interest; it is the default behaviour for maintaining a functional and pleasant work environment. To assume otherwise is a catastrophic analytical error. She is a "Black Box"; her internal state is unknown and should not be guessed.

2.3 The Game (The Terrain): An Infinite Parasocial Trap

  • Time Horizon: This is an Infinite Game (Carse, 1986). The interactions occur within a workplace, meaning reputation and long-term social standing are at stake. A messy or awkward outcome can have lasting negative consequences.
  • Current Game State: The Protagonist is not in a "potential romance" game. He is in an Infinite Parasocial Game. This is a one-sided relationship where he invests significant emotional energy, and the other party is largely unaware or unreciprocating. This is a structurally negative-sum game for him, where the only guaranteed outcome is the depletion of his own resources (time, focus, emotional energy).
  • The Environment (HWZ Forum): The forum is a "Greek Chorus of Cynicism". The advice is largely low-quality noise designed for entertainment, not constructive strategy. It amplifies negative emotions and promotes poor decision-making. It must be strategically ignored.

3.0 Game Theory Analysis: Quantifying the Strategic Dilemma

3.1 Static Analysis: The Payoff Matrix of a Direct Approach

Let's quantify the Protagonist's implicit plan: "Ask her out for a meal soon." We will use a payoff scale from -10 (ruinous outcome) to +10 (ideal outcome).

She AcceptsShe Declines
Protagonist Asks+8 (High reward, validation)-7 (High cost: public awkwardness, professional friction, severe psychological blow)
Protagonist Doesn't AskN/A-4 (Status quo: slow, guaranteed drain of psychological resources, continued obsession)
Analysis: The matrix reveals a high-risk gamble. The negative outcome of asking (-7) is nearly as potent as the positive outcome (+8), and given the lack of positive data, its probability is significantly higher. The status quo (-4) is a guaranteed negative outcome. This is a losing table. The GTO is not to play this game as currently structured. The game itself must be changed.

3.2 Dynamic Analysis: The Flawed Game Tree

The Protagonist's current plan is a single, high-risk move:

  • Node 1 (Protagonist's Move):Ask her out.
    • Branch A (She Accepts): Payoff = +8
    • Branch B (She Declines): Payoff = -7
Using backward induction, a rational player would only make this move if the probability of acceptance was very high. Based on the current evidence (near zero), this is a logically unsound move. A superior game tree would involve inserting preliminary, low-cost information-gathering nodes before the high-stakes "Ask" node.

4.0 The Core Cognitive Error: The Limerence-Distortion Field

4.1 Diagnosis: Limerence vs. Healthy Affection

The Protagonist's described experience aligns perfectly with the diagnostic criteria for limerence (Tennov, 1979):

  • Intrusive and obsessive thoughts about the Limerent Object (LO).
  • Acute longing for reciprocation.
  • Mood dependency on the LO's actions.
  • Inability to be limerent with more than one person at a time ("one-itis").
  • Fear of rejection and debilitating shyness around the LO.
Recognising this as a clinical pattern, not a personal failing, is the first step toward regaining control.

4.2 The Strategic Cost: A Ruinously Flawed Map

Limerence creates a cognitive distortion field. It makes the Protagonist see patterns that are not there, over-interpret low-cost signals (a smile), and discount high-cost evidence (a lack of initiated contact). He is navigating a real-world strategic situation with a fantasy-based map. This is the direct path to ruin.

4.3 The Antidote: A Shift to Disciplined Empiricism

The only way to disable the distortion field is to stop feeding it with hope and fantasy, and instead adopt the mindset of a scientist. The goal is to form a hypothesis ("She might be interested in me") and then design low-cost, safe-to-fail experiments to gather empirical data that can either support or falsify it.

 

WarMage87

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5.0 The Recommended Strategic Architecture: A Dual-Distribution Strategy

The Protagonist must immediately pivot to the DDSF. This means allocating his resources to first guarantee survival and then, second, to cautiously explore opportunity.

5.1 Phase I: Fortify the Citadel (The 90% - Survival First)

The Citadel is the Protagonist's psychological health, self-esteem, and professional standing. It is currently under siege from his own obsessive thoughts. It must be fortified immediately.

5.1.1 Action 1: Enforce a Strict Information Diet

  • Cease Active Seeking: Consciously stop looking for her in the office. Do not orchestrate "accidental" bump-intos. Reduce the frequency of stimulus.
  • Mute the Noise: Stop reading the HWZ thread. It is a source of psychological poison.
  • Digital Detox: He states she has no social media, which is a strategic advantage. Do not attempt to find any. Starve the obsession of new data to analyse.

5.1.2 Action 2: Re-establish a Professional Frame

  • Calibrate to Neutral: All future interactions must be polite, warm, but strictly professional. This recalibrates the dynamic, removes the "needy" subtext, and makes him less predictable and more composed—qualities that are universally more attractive.
  • No More Unsolicited Gifts: This is critical. Unsolicited gifts place her in a position of social debt and reinforce his low-status position as a "suitor". All unilateral investment must cease.

5.1.3 Action 3: Diversify the Life Portfolio

  • Reinvest Mental Energy: The cognitive cycles spent obsessing must be aggressively re-allocated. Focus intensely on a work project, a fitness goal, or a personal hobby.
  • Activate Social Life: Re-engage with friends. A strong social life outside of work is a potent antidote to workplace obsession and demonstrates a life of abundance, not scarcity.

5.2 Phase II: Deploy Low-Cost Scouts (The 10% - Data Gathering)

Only from a secure Citadel can one afford to send out scouts. These are small, controlled experiments designed to gather data at minimal risk. The goal of each scout is information, not a date.

5.2.1 Scout Mission #1: The Low-Stakes Conversation Probe

  • Objective: To test for conversational reciprocity.
  • Execution: At an opportune moment (e.g., at the pantry, waiting for a lift), initiate a brief (60-90 second), non-work-related conversation. Example: "Hey, that was a busy week. Any fun plans for the weekend?"
  • Data to Collect:
    • Does she give a one-word answer or an elaborated one?
    • Does she make eye contact and seem engaged?
    • CRITICAL: Does she ask a question back? ("How about you?") A lack of reciprocity is a strong negative signal.
  • If Successful (she engages and reciprocates): End the conversation on a high note and walk away. "Sounds fun. Well, have a good one!" This creates a positive impression without pressure.
  • If Unsuccessful (she gives a minimal reply): The hypothesis of her interest is weakened. Abort further missions for now and return to Citadel fortification.

5.2.2 Scout Mission #2: The Group Activity Probe (Contingent)

  • Pre-requisite: Successful completion of Scout Mission #1.
  • Objective: To test her willingness to spend voluntary social time in a low-pressure group setting.
  • Execution: When in a group with other colleagues, casually suggest a group activity. Example: "A few of us are grabbing lunch at [place] today, you're welcome to join if you're free."
  • Data to Collect: Her reaction. An enthusiastic "Sure!" is a strong positive signal. A hesitant "Oh, I can't today, sorry" is a weak negative signal. An enthusiastic "I can't today but definitely next time!" is a weak positive signal.

5.2.3 Scout Mission #3: The Direct Invitation (High-Contingency)

  • Pre-requisite: Multiple, strong positive signals from Scout Missions #1 and #2. This is not to be attempted otherwise.
  • Objective: A final, clear test of interest.
  • Execution: The invitation must be casual, specific, and low-pressure. "I'm planning to grab a coffee at [place] after work. Care to join?" This is far superior to "Can I take you out to dinner?", which is a high-pressure, formal request.
  • Outcome: Her answer at this point will be based on the foundation of comfort and rapport you have built. Because you have de-risked the process, even a "no" will be less damaging.

6.0 Implementation and De-risking

6.1 The Prime Directive: Process Over Outcome

The Protagonist must decouple his ego from the outcome of any single action. The victory is not in getting a "yes," but in running a disciplined, rational process to find the truth while protecting his own sanity. Every scout mission that returns data—positive or negative—is a success because it refines his map of reality.

6.2 Managing the Environment: Muting the Noise

He must recognise the HWZ forum for what it is: a source of entertainment for others at his expense. Engaging with it, and especially with the cynical advice (e.g., from user Pyromaster) or the unhelpful "tool man"⁵ suggestions (from user Woof24), is strategically ruinous. He must disengage completely.

7.0 Conclusion: From Victim to Architect

The Protagonist is currently the victim of his own unchecked psychological processes, trapped in a losing game. The provided strategic architecture offers a clear path to reclaiming agency and control.

By shifting his focus from the unobtainable goal of "winning her over" to the achievable one of building a robust self and gathering accurate information, he transforms the game. He moves from being a passive, hopeful player to being the architect of his own system. This approach first guarantees his survival, which is the only rational objective in a non-ergodic game. Paradoxically, the personal strength, discipline, and emotional resilience built during this process are the very qualities that are most likely to lead to a positive outcome in this or any future romantic endeavour. The only losing move is to continue on the current path.

8.0 References

Carse, J. P. (1986). Finite and Infinite Games: A Vision of Life as Play and Possibility. Free Press.

Taleb, N. N. (2018). Skin in the Game: Hidden Asymmetries in Daily Life. Random House.

Taleb, N. N. (2012). Antifragile: Things That Gain from Disorder. Random House.

Tennov, D. (1979). Love and Limerence: The Experience of Being in Love. Stein and Day.

9.0 Post-Scriptum (PS): The Critical Insight

The single most important strategic shift required is to stop acting like a Software Engineer trying to "debug" the colleague to figure out her hidden motivations. This is impossible and a waste of resources. He must become a Systems Architect, focusing entirely on building a robust, resilient, and antifragile personal operating system for himself that is not dependent on the inputs or validation of any single external person. A strong system attracts success; a weak one begs for it and is invariably denied.

10.0 Footnotes

¹ Limerence: A state of mind which results from a romantic attraction to another person and typically includes obsessive thoughts and fantasies and a desire to form or maintain a relationship with the object of love and have one's feelings reciprocated.

² Dual-Distribution Strategy Framework (DDSF): A strategy, popularised in the work of Nassim Nicholas Taleb, for navigating uncertainty. It involves allocating the vast majority (e.g., 90%) of one's resources to extremely safe, robust assets (the "Citadel") to guarantee survival, while allocating a small minority (e.g., 10%) to high-risk, high-reward experiments (the "Scouts").

³ Ergodicity: A concept from statistical mechanics. In simple terms, a system is ergodic if the average outcome over time is the same as the average outcome over a group at one time. A non-ergodic system is one where an individual's path can hit an "absorbing barrier" (like ruin or death), from which they cannot recover. In such games, survival has absolute primacy over maximising expected value.

Revealed Preference: An economic theory stating that the preferences of consumers can be revealed by their purchasing habits. In strategy, it means prioritising costly, observable actions over cheap, deniable words to determine a person's true intent and priorities.

工具人 (gōng jù rén): A Mandarin slang term literally meaning "tool person." It refers to someone who is used by another, often a romantic interest, for favours, support, or resources without any reciprocation of affection. They are treated as a useful tool, not a partner.
 

fantasyrulz

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Both actually.

In a nut shell, back in his old thread, he felt that the girl should like him back because 1. He likes her. 2. He is financially stable. 3. He got a car. 4. He is supposedly decent looking enough to have women making the first move in the past.

All of which didn't consider the target's feelings or her ideal partner's requirements.

every thing playing on and on in his brain,
the smile, small talk, small detail replaying over and over
deriving happiness from these little memories.

its toxic and so enjoyable.

if only i can master the skill, dont even need money car looks etc also can get girls lol
 

WarMage87

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Been a month, thought maybe I will forget her slowly since I never bump into her for quite a while and just kept myself busy. This week, I bumped into her a few times. Saw her talking with other colleagues, esp males, and I feel quite down even though I knew it is about work and cannot focus on work. Then realise that I still like her alot. Even as I do household chores just now, she came to my mind.

Knew she was esp busy this week, so I bought snacks for her. Can see she appreciate it, she said thanks with such a sweet smile. Hopefully it's not so awkward alrdy and I can ask her out for a meal soon...
 

f-o-f!

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Both actually.

In a nut shell, back in his old thread, he felt that the girl should like him back because 1. He likes her. 2. He is financially stable. 3. He got a car. 4. He is supposedly decent looking enough to have women making the first move in the past.

All of which didn't consider the target's feelings or her ideal partner's requirements.
true. i read that thread and never got any sense that the feelings were mutual. but then again, i don't suppose she would share her ideal partner's requirements to an older male colleague unless they are close or friends.
 

f-o-f!

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maybe if she calls back say is unsure and talks it out with him... else hopeless

one sided love is the worst,
toxic and time consuming
he mentioned it was a bit awkward after. she couldn't have been 'unsure', though. he asked her out for a meal, not confessed. if he had confessed, i think she might seriously consider leaving. 😅
 

CanIsayNo

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the problem with such a "relationship" is that ts is missing out on a lot of potential partners that may be open to starting something with him as he clings onto this one sided love. opportunity cost is a thing. no woman or man is worth all that.
 

CanIsayNo

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he mentioned it was a bit awkward after. she couldn't have been 'unsure', though. he asked her out for a meal, not confessed. if he had confessed, i think she might seriously consider leaving. 😅
confessing may actually save TS in this case, cos the female might finally just give it to him that she's not interested and TS can finally just move on and the female might also be able to move on.

lol
 
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