jogging and motivation thread

[sph777]

You haven retire any since last year?! I must control myself already. Still got 2 pairs that I have not unboxed yet

haven't thrown any for a while.

 

[WussRedXLi]

Edit: the video is long and is not in the typical entertainment type format. But i believe me.. people should watch this. @WussRedXLi

Thx for the tag, the vid quite recent 3 months ago, havent come across this one. It's a long one.

Actually he is already very well known in the cycling world, have already come across him on a few GCN vids that time when i started cycling but that was a few years ago when he was still with UAE Team and Pogacar .
He is renowned coz ex Pogi's coach before Pogi changed coach some 2 years ago. Also some performance sports director of UAE Team Emirates (dont think he is now since Pogi changed coach......not sure if there are politics involved also coz UAE Team Emirates also a bit....).

Here's a 2023 one, think that time still Pogi's coach. Shorter and easier to digest one, probably a summarised version similar points of yours (think i'll use AI for yours)

 

[Kuudere]

Latest reading on my status..

Done body composition analysis last year

 

[WussRedXLi]

so effectiveness is going to be limited. then for those who are serious/anal about zone2 they are most likely seasoned runners and have done some sort of lab lactate test and they will also know how to equate zones to rpe from experience already. so chicken and egg problem i suppose which sort of make running interesting if you take the half full view point.

talk test is probably the best gauge

if you do want to go down rabbit's hole on zone 2. I find that he is probably the expert on this. there are LOTS of highly misleading info on z2 from influencers.

For those who are serious and want a fuss free + guess free that is repeatable over time and want more "fine resolution" (coz training to hit some target so wanna track improvements), i'd really recommend the lactate meter test.....bite the bullet and be done with it.
The curve profile can already be plotted quite easily and quickly with just half a dozen or so points ie pricks. Baseline first and then 4-5 pricks as you ramp up. No need to do the full test till exhaustion, which goes up to like a dozen pricks.
Then once you get your lactate turn points, no more guess work already....... Re-test as and when needed after you feel you have gained fitness.
Mine is gotten from TB， there are several brands and iirc cost around $300 plus minus (mine's less than 300), main reason is coz those ang moh stuff like Lactate Scout (most popular among pros and amateurs overseas) is bloody costly, whole kit with strips like close to 1k with shipping.......

That time shopee also got one seller (mainland china) selling, not sure still there or not. Cant see in my cart in my 2 accounts, might be gone liao. I think aliexpress might have too, for those who cant get from TB ( i remember got some TB links that bars from selling to SG, not sure if changing address in the settings helps or not).

But one thing to warn......once you know the readings and pace / wattage / RPE / whatever......unless if one is aiming to further improve over time, it's going to be a white elephant.
And yes, also the strips got expiry date (1.5 years only), mine's expired liao.

Oh yes, one more thing. Nevertheless, this is still cheaper than going to a centre to have it professionally tested, esp if you are gonna be testing for 2 sports, eg running and cycling.


PS edit - if i remember correctly, San Millan also prefers lactate testing, even for amateur athletes. (of coz what he means by that is not including recreational folks)


Can also do the usual LTHR run test but that one tougher than the above. Coz really need to push and pace correctly, it's not unlike the 20 min FTP test in cycling which is not easy for those who have not pushed before but of coz might be "easy" to us, ie so it could be misleading in some cases due to human induced factors......while for the lactate meter, it's like auto and fuss free, free from errors coz of human factors. But pros are no $$$ investment and no need to prick.
So, folks need to choose their poison.

 

[WussRedXLi]

Done body composition analysis last year

Latest reading on my status..

Bro, what's the $$ damage?

 

[sales69]

Finally received my Redhare 9U from PDD after around 20days. Supposed to be 涂码和取芯片 but all labels/tags came intact

Original box

Weight test. Bought a precision scale just for this.
Left 266g

Right 268g. 2g more due to the tag

Impeccable QC by Li Ning to keep weight difference down to 1-2g. For reference, Hui's same size 45 weighs around 270g. Weight test can be a barometer to judge authenticity, so in this sense, i think my pair should be original.

Did a visual check for signs of use or damage and nothing of note other than what looks like glue residue on the exterior of the boom capsule layer(both sides have it).

As for fitting, i have slightly wide foot but no real issues with size 45. Length wise, around 1finger spacing at the heel while the toe box is very roomy. Only minor complaint is the mid foot area is very snug, probably narrower than other china shoes i own.

Overall as long not from official store, there is no way to 100% guarantee the authenticity but i am inclined to say the shoes should be authentic. Downside paid rmb580 tax included for it and the price has since dropped to sub 400rmb in just a matter of weeks.

Good stuff. Please share the link you bought from. Considering buy 2nd pair.

Can also try inserting an insole if there's too much room.

You guys should try this Dynafish insole if you like firm and bouncy feel.

Can replace the flimsy Xiaonian insole.

【淘宝】 https://e.tb.cn/h.iVLrHadhdhZAXIi?tk=8okJUDYDgPx HU108 「大鲶A18鞋垫大毛牛小鲶1.0超临界专业减震支撑竞速TPEE跑步鞋垫」
点击链接直接打开 或者 淘宝搜索直接打开

 

[songboh9696]

Bro, what's the $$ damage?

mine is the home weighing machine so not as accurate as professional machine.. more of relative measurement across time.

 

[Ender]

Thx for the tag, the vid quite recent 3 months ago, havent come across this one. It's a long one.

Actually he is already very well known in the cycling world, have already come across him on a few GCN vids that time when i started cycling but that was a few years ago when he was still with UAE Team and Pogacar .
He is renowned coz ex Pogi's coach before Pogi changed coach some 2 years ago. Also some performance sports director of UAE Team Emirates (dont think he is now since Pogi changed coach......not sure if there are politics involved also coz UAE Team Emirates also a bit....).

Here's a 2023 one, think that time still Pogi's coach. Shorter and easier to digest one, probably a summarised version similar points of yours (think i'll use AI for yours)

He is famous as a proponents of zone 2 training for mitochondrial health and that improve metabolic health and protects us against diabetes. Why I sometimes say to do volumes of easy run for metabolic health. We are very insulin sensitive if we do our volume easy runs, no need zones 2. Zone 3 is alright and even better for mitochondrial biogenesis.
Consistency is key to volume. Not one time long run and be down for 3 or more days.

 

[rECKleSSfElla]

Good stuff. Please share the link you bought from. Considering buy 2nd pair.

Can also try inserting an insole if there's too much room.

You guys should try this Dynafish insole if you like firm and bouncy feel.

Can replace the flimsy Xiaonian insole.

【淘宝】 https://e.tb.cn/h.iVLrHadhdhZAXIi?tk=8okJUDYDgPx HU108 「大鲶A18鞋垫大毛牛小鲶1.0超临界专业减震支撑竞速TPEE跑步鞋垫」
点击链接直接打开 或者 淘宝搜索直接打开

Ordered from PDD 品牌好货 section which doesn't show specifically is which seller. Apparently items sold from this section are supposed to be authentic and lower priced than other listings. I see some listings have new colorways that are not yet available. Can hold your horses for now since the price will only drop further and more choices of colorways in the future.

I have that Dynafish insole. Tried replacing it with the thinner insole of the Xiaonian but it gave me a weird rubbing sensation around the arch of the foot so i changed back. Dunno but maybe i bought 1 size too big for the insole.

 

[Ender]

mine is the home weighing machine so not as accurate as professional machine.. more of relative measurement across time.

The report is very pro for a home machine.

 

[WussRedXLi]

Summary of Video Content on Mitochondrial Health, Exercise, and Metabolic Function​

This video features an in-depth discussion with exercise physiologist Enigo San Milan, focusing on mitochondrial function, its measurement, the role of exercise—particularly zone 2 training—and the implications for chronic diseases like type 2 diabetes and Alzheimer’s. The conversation highlights the evolving understanding of metabolism from traditional metrics like VO2 max to cellular and mitochondrial health as the next frontier in fitness and longevity.

---

Key Concepts and Insights​

• Mitochondrial Function
  • Mitochondria are the powerhouse of cells, producing ATP, the energy currency essential for cell and organ function.
  • Mitochondrial dysfunction leads to decreased energy production, impacting overall health and aging.
  • Unlike popular belief, nutrition alone does not reverse mitochondrial decay; exercise is the primary method to improve mitochondrial function.
• Measuring Mitochondrial Health
  • Direct measurement through muscle biopsy is invasive and impractical.
  • Indirect non-invasive proxies include:
    • Fat oxidation (fat burning) measured via metabolic carts (gas exchange analysis). Fat can only be burned in mitochondria, so fat oxidation indicates mitochondrial efficiency.
    • Blood lactate levels, where elevated lactate signals poor mitochondrial lactate clearance and recycling.
  • Devices similar to glucose meters can measure lactate at home, making assessment more accessible.
• Lactate’s Role
  • Lactate is not a waste product but a preferred fuel and signaling molecule in cells.
  • It plays a crucial role in energy metabolism and cellular homeostasis.
  • In cancer, lactate acts as a master regulator of carcinogenesis.
  • The common muscle “burn” sensation during exercise is caused by protons from ATP hydrolysis, not lactate accumulation.
• VO2 Max vs. Mitochondrial Function
  • VO2 max measures cardiorespiratory capacity but doesn’t capture cellular or mitochondrial efficiency.
  • The shift in research focus is from VO2 max to metabolic and mitochondrial health for deeper insights into longevity and disease prevention.

---

Zone 2 Training and Its Importance​

• Definition and Characteristics
  • Zone 2 exercise is moderate intensity where you can talk but not comfortably hold a full conversation.
  • It maximizes fat oxidation (“fat max”) and improves lactate clearance, both surrogates of mitochondrial function.
  • Sustainable and effective for improving mitochondrial health, unlike high-intensity training (HIT) which is less sustainable and can lead to fatigue or injury.
• Recommended Protocol
  • Aim for 200-300 minutes (3-5 hours) per week of zone 2 exercise, supplemented by 1-2 sessions of high-intensity training for cardiorespiratory and glycolytic capacity.
  • Resistance training 2-3 times per week is advised for muscle mass maintenance, not bodybuilding.
  • Recovery days with complete rest or light activity (e.g., social rides or walks) are essential to avoid overtraining and chronic inflammation.
• Gender Differences
  • Men and women benefit equally from zone 2 training regarding mitochondrial function.
  • Women have reduced glycolytic (high-intensity) capacity due to lower fast-twitch muscle mass, thus may find HIT more challenging but still require it for overall fitness.
• Athlete Insights
  • Elite athletes follow an 80/20 rule: approximately 80% low-intensity (zone 2) and 20% high-intensity sessions, not minutes.
  • Zone 2 sessions are often more challenging than perceived, requiring a deliberate effort beyond easy aerobic activity.

---

Metabolic Flexibility and Sedentarism​

• Metabolic Flexibility
  • The ability to switch efficiently between fat and carbohydrate metabolism, largely dependent on mitochondrial health.
  • Poor mitochondrial function leads to metabolic inflexibility, a hallmark of metabolic diseases.
• Inside-Out Hypothesis (New Research Highlight)
  • Study comparing sedentary versus moderately active individuals showed significant mitochondrial decay in sedentary people.
  • Key findings: while glucose entry into cells remains normal, the transport of pyruvate into mitochondria and the electron transport chain’s ATP production capacity are substantially reduced (~35-50%).
  • This mitochondrial decay precedes overt metabolic disease markers like insulin resistance or high blood glucose, suggesting a long preclinical phase.
• Sedentarism as Pathology
  • Sedentary individuals, despite appearing healthy, have significant mitochondrial dysfunction and are predisposed to chronic diseases.
  • The “control” group in many studies (sedentary healthy individuals) are metabolically compromised compared to active individuals.

---

Chronic Disease Implications​

• Type 2 Diabetes and Alzheimer’s Disease
  • Both diseases share mitochondrial dysfunction and insulin resistance as core pathologies.
  • Alzheimer’s is increasingly referred to as “type 3 diabetes” or brain diabetes due to its strong metabolic component.
  • Early onset of metabolic diseases in younger populations signals a potential future rise in early Alzheimer’s cases, threatening societal structures.
• Nutrition and Mitochondrial Health
  • Nutrition alone cannot restore mitochondrial function but can mitigate severity by reducing carbohydrate load when mitochondrial decay exists.
  • Muscle is the largest and most metabolically active organ, responsible for oxidizing ~80% of glucose after meals.
  • Elite athletes consume very high carbohydrate diets to fuel mitochondria, illustrating the link between metabolic capacity and nutrition.
• Lifestyle Factors
  • Sleep and stress management are critical pillars alongside exercise and nutrition for mitochondrial and overall health.
  • Chronic inflammation from overtraining, poor nutrition, and stress contributes to disease progression.

---

Practical Recommendations for the General Population​

Recommendation	Details
Zone 2 Training	200-300 minutes/week (3-5 hours), moderate intensity
High-Intensity Training (HIT)	1-2 sessions/week to improve glycolytic capacity
Resistance Training	2-3 sessions/week for muscle maintenance
Recovery	Complete rest or light activity days
Monitoring	Use lactate meters or metabolic carts if available
Lifestyle	Prioritize adequate sleep, stress management

Final Thoughts​

• Exercise remains the only proven intervention to improve mitochondrial function and metabolic health substantially.
• A balanced approach combining zone 2, high intensity, resistance training, and recovery is essential.
• The current epidemic of sedentary lifestyles accelerates mitochondrial decay, predisposing populations to chronic diseases earlier in life.
• Public health efforts must prioritize preventative strategies focusing on mitochondrial and metabolic health through accessible exercise programs and lifestyle modifications.
• Simplicity, sustainability, and consistency in exercise and lifestyle are key to living well and being well.

 

[WussRedXLi]

He is famous as a proponents of zone 2 training for mitochondrial health and that improve metabolic health and protects us against diabetes. Why I sometimes say to do volumes of easy run for metabolic health. We are very insulin sensitive if we do our volume easy runs, no need zones 2. Zone 3 is alright and even better for mitochondrial biogenesis.
Consistency is key to volume. Not one time long run and be down for 3 or more days.

I watched a very recent video, either GCN or GCN Tech, the hosts stating that the cycling pros even do signficant volumes in zone 1. Something like the main reason being the cycling pros zone 2 power, for eg Pogacar, is purported to be what.....320-340W (real or not, not sure, pogi just put that out, but it shd also not be too false lah). And even that zone 2 is a bit fatiguing to other various systems in the body,

And also, as we know, pro cyclists do insane amounts of volume during their training season, up to 25 or even sometimes 30 hours a week. Then the workouts leh..... it's mind blowing. Say we convert to running, even at 5 mins pace (running pros are much much faster), there are amateur athletes (say Ironman) who can do 5:00 pace and 10hrs is already 100km, 20 hrs is 200km. Very shag one.
edit - no i made a mistake, even at 5:00 pace, 10hrs = 120km, 20hrs = 240km.

So pro cyclists even do those zone 1 mixed in with zone 2. Just to get the miles in (durability?) and also possible a good percentage of aerobic maintenance still. But of coz ,after all, things like TDF each stage like 4-5 hours stretching to 6-7 hours, and it's 21 days. So they need the insane volume, if not it's like doing a 10k workout and then trying the FM, ie suicidal.


So far for me, my main driver for easy volume is Sat + Sun cycling with my kid, but that is Zone 1 for me mainly, with sometimes in Zone 2. My kid very young, so can tahan (and recover fast)....als conditioned already, no injuries as of yet. *touch wood* lol.
How much does it help aerobically, i think it does lah.....just not sure about efficiency.
Weekdays is 3 days cycling, workout + easy (once a week, sometimes 2 if got feel) or just soley easy/fun ride around but these weekday sessions are confirmed faster in pace than the weekends with my kid, just shorter in duration.......nowadays i cut down to around 2hrs or even 1.5 instead of last time 3+. Then fri morning is run workout day but short one 20-30 mins actual workout duration.

 

[WussRedXLi]

mine is the home weighing machine so not as accurate as professional machine.. more of relative measurement across time.

Fwah you bought ah.......these machines you can see in wellness "labs" / clinics and even those new age gyms. Not cheap. Of coz there are going to be price differences between the so-called "pro" machines and home machines, but i think the accuracy diff is not gonna be big.

But yeah can serve as a baseline, then if you are gymming or changing eating patterns or doing new sports, can track ba.
For me, at least for calisthenics purpose, i only track (biceps + triceps upper arm, and my quads/hamstrings) via the ikea flexible ruler. But im quite the hard gainer unfortunately, i know that is probably an excuse.

 

[sales69]

Ordered from PDD 品牌好货 section which doesn't show specifically is which seller. Apparently items sold from this section are supposed to be authentic and lower priced than other listings. I see some listings have new colorways that are not yet available. Can hold your horses for now since the price will only drop further and more choices of colorways in the future.

I have that Dynafish insole. Tried replacing it with the thinner insole of the Xiaonian but it gave me a weird rubbing sensation around the arch of the foot so i changed back. Dunno but maybe i bought 1 size too big for the insole.

Thanks I will look for the section. More colours always welcomed.

飞电6E also have new funky color. But unsure about it haha.

 

[WussRedXLi]

For the cyclists here :

Interesting, recently watched an GCN episode stating that Pogacar looked a little bit stockier and more muscular.
Might have something to do with the new coach Javier, after he changed from San Millan end of 2023 in which Dr San Millan holds a dual role as coach and Head of Performance at UAE Team Emirates


Tadej Pogačar’s current coach is Javier Sola, a Spanish trainer who took over the role from Iñigo San Millán at the end of 2023. Sola works alongside UAE Team Emirates' Head of Performance, Jeroen Swart, to oversee a comprehensive, high-intensity training system focused on strength, nutrition, and recovery.

Key details about Pogačar's training shift:

• Transition: Sola replaced long-time trainer Iñigo San Millán, who had guided Pogačar since 2019.
• Focus: Under Sola, training has incorporated more strength work and higher intensity, contributing to his 2024 and 2025 successes.
• Approach: Sola emphasizes a holistic approach, including on-bike, gym, nutrition, and recovery.
• Relationship: Pogačar has described Sola as an "amazing guide".

 

[WussRedXLi]

270W normalized power (that means the calculated equivalent steady state constant power over the session and gives particular weightage to higher intensity spikes, esp crucial for hilly courses or climbs) from Artem riding with Pogi. The power stats is from Artem, of coz he/they cannot tap onto Pogi's power meter or get the stats from him. 4 hours ride total for pogi.

BTW. pogi and gang not only simi conversational pace, is laughing with jokes fun pace and one fella checking mobile phone a few times (edit - bad habit, dont do it)

So, i think it's quite beleivable that this training session is zone 1 for these fellas . And besides, Pogi is a tad lighter than the youtuber Artem, so pushing even less watts for the climb. (ie in other words, his purported 320-340W zone 2 is quite believable)


BTW before anyone goes nuts - the youtuber usually gets invited on some rides with the teams, he also lives in the training area in Alicante, Spain. The team car is behind him in this vid, while in others with other teams he does get requested from the team car/bike to follow a bit back, so it depends and in reality it's probably a mix of both.

Anyway, in terms of calories, this is around 1000 calories per hour for 70kg, so 4000 calories for 4 hours.
Or for context for the majority of runners here, same 70kg pax runs 3hr marathon ~ 3k calories.

 

[GlassDoor]

Type 2 Diabetes and Alzheimer’s Disease

• Both diseases share mitochondrial dysfunction and insulin resistance as core pathologies.
• Alzheimer’s is increasingly referred to as “type 3 diabetes” or brain diabetes due to its strong metabolic component.
• Early onset of metabolic diseases in younger populations signals a potential future rise in early Alzheimer’s cases, threatening societal structures.

what is new to me is the above. I did not know the linkage to alzheimer's disease and the worrying trends! Very insightful.
I dive into his research in the past more from a fitness and endurance perspective. And it is amazing how his research has been seriously twisted by so many influencers for the sake of eyeballs!

 

[GlassDoor]

He is famous as a proponents of zone 2 training for mitochondrial health and that improve metabolic health and protects us against diabetes. Why I sometimes say to do volumes of easy run for metabolic health. We are very insulin sensitive if we do our volume easy runs, no need zones 2. Zone 3 is alright and even better for mitochondrial biogenesis.
Consistency is key to volume. Not one time long run and be down for 3 or more days.

100% agree consistency is key.
But I belong the the ocd/anal type... I do try to keep daily runs really in z2. For a person with regular exercise habits their Z2 is likely to be in a stronger intensity. There is a lot of guess work here.
Best is either get a lactate meter or get a Vo2max/lactate test done at a lab.
Even lab test only give you a snap shot of that point in time. I had tests done one year apart and the results vary quite a bit.

 

[Ender]

I watched a very recent video, either GCN or GCN Tech, the hosts stating that the cycling pros even do signficant volumes in zone 1. Something like the main reason being the cycling pros zone 2 power, for eg Pogacar, is purported to be what.....320-340W (real or not, not sure, pogi just put that out, but it shd also not be too false lah). And even that zone 2 is a bit fatiguing to other various systems in the body,

And also, as we know, pro cyclists do insane amounts of volume during their training season, up to 25 or even sometimes 30 hours a week. Then the workouts leh..... it's mind blowing. Say we convert to running, even at 5 mins pace (running pros are much much faster), there are amateur athletes (say Ironman) who can do 5:00 pace and 10hrs is already 100km, 20 hrs is 200km. Very shag one.
edit - no i made a mistake, even at 5:00 pace, 10hrs = 120km, 20hrs = 240km.

So pro cyclists even do those zone 1 mixed in with zone 2. Just to get the miles in (durability?) and also possible a good percentage of aerobic maintenance still. But of coz ,after all, things like TDF each stage like 4-5 hours stretching to 6-7 hours, and it's 21 days. So they need the insane volume, if not it's like doing a 10k workout and then trying the FM, ie suicidal.


So far for me, my main driver for easy volume is Sat + Sun cycling with my kid, but that is Zone 1 for me mainly, with sometimes in Zone 2. My kid very young, so can tahan (and recover fast)....als conditioned already, no injuries as of yet. *touch wood* lol.
How much does it help aerobically, i think it does lah.....just not sure about efficiency.
Weekdays is 3 days cycling, workout + easy (once a week, sometimes 2 if got feel) or just soley easy/fun ride around but these weekday sessions are confirmed faster in pace than the weekends with my kid, just shorter in duration.......nowadays i cut down to around 2hrs or even 1.5 instead of last time 3+. Then fri morning is run workout day but short one 20-30 mins actual workout duration.

I think the key think is high volume in the zone. Zone 2 and 1 can give you that without overburning. But that is for people who are professional who can afford the time. one week 14- 20 hours?

For the rest of us, I think due to our shorter commitment time, some of our easy runs can be at zone3 to maximize our shorter duration. Also have to balance with real zone 2 for other runs so we do not burn out and kill our consistency.

Another reason I advocate for some zone 3 is from my own thought process. The true meaning of metabolic flexibility is our mitochondrial cells switch fuel very quickly and burn them very efficiently regardless it's carb, fat, or lactate. If we never give our body the chance to burn carb or produce lactate, our mitochondrial will never learn to be efficient burning those carb and lactate. Don't forget, in the aerobic system, which our mitochondrial is responsible for convert fuel to ATP, it uses CARB, Lactate and FATS. True metabolic flexibility is the mitochondrial cells burn them all when the intensity requires it. Those with poor metabolic health struggle to switch and feel fatigue even when fuel sources are abandon in their system

 

[WussRedXLi]

what is new to me is the above. I did not know the linkage to alzheimer's disease and the worrying trends! Very insightful.
I dive into his research in the past more from a fitness and endurance perspective. And it is amazing how his research has been seriously twisted by so many influencers for the sake of eyeballs!

Yeah for me i also quite into the cognitive space, coz my father has MCI - mild cognitive impairment. But no medication needed as of now, coz controlled. Also why i put him on higher dose creatine, up to 10g/d......just crossing fingers. It's a jialat group of disease, really dont know why one is even living and it goes on far longer than other diseases.
For me, i have also noticed that i "stutter" or hesitate a bit more in my speech in the past 3-5 years. Same goes to my FIL, around 18 years older than me. So..... sighz.
Such speech non fluency symptoms could be an onset of mild congitive impairment, further leading to diseases like alzeimer's and with further links to stuff like Parkinson's. But of coz, still quite far fetched lah, but it's possible.

if these are thought from a vascular and energy pov, then exercise and things like Creatine possibly could help.

Of coz, me not doc. But if can help and no harm, then just do ba.