Profitable Group - is it credible?

[kelvintyy]

Hope Everybody here has a pleasant Christmas and a happy new year!

Although PG still owes me money until now.. Going to be 7 months already.. I still have to continue living my life..

Life goes on.. I believe in karma, what comes around, goes around.

Will still keep you guys updated if they have paid me.

 

[belledonne99]

Small Claims Tribunals

SCT, after hearing both parties and taking a break to think thru' whether Boron falls under
the purview of SCT, decides that it does not. This is very surprising, taking into account
that both parties (ie. including Tim Goldring himself who represents PG) said Boron is NOT
an investment product at the consultation session! There is an underlying physical asset!
And there is a clear delivery schedule. And no where in the Boron contract does the word
'investment' appear.

Furthermore, MAS clearly states that PG is NOT licensed to sell investment products!

So the situation is: SCT said it's an investment. MAS said PG is not licensed to sell
investment products. So is Boron an investment product or not?

An appeal against the decision is unavoidable, at least it serves to clarify the situation.

Anyway, I spoke with Goldring. Told him that customers can't be waiting for PG to get
paid by Dubai customers before getting their payment. It's long overdue and PG has to come
up with an alternative plan to pay. Waiting for Dubai customers to pay up is NOT a solution!

 

[henrylbh]

Doubt any authorities can help. Only recourse is to sue if you can proof it's a debt due to you. Otherwise, you just need to wait and wait till whatever you purchased appreciate over time. Sadly, it's also not easy to cut loss either.

 

[probono]

Dont give up

If they have money to pay for those offices in Stanley Street, to pay for those rubbish TV adverts and sponsorship on ESPN, to pay Chelgate, to pay DLP, and to pay Liverpool football club. According to them they had 70 Million pounds to buy Newcastle United in July (although they didnt). They have enough money for flights to the Philippines. Apparently they had also enough money to pay a supplier for $10M of Boron products. They have enough money to send a lawyers letter to TKL.

If they can pay all those people they have enough money to pay you - they are just choosing not to.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all.

 

[temjin38]

New here....

Dear activists,

Well, how do I start? This is my first forum post, I have read plenty but never have enough energy to participate. Since this is my first time, please bear with me if I make stupid mistake and bear in mind that i cannot write well. So do clarify with me now and then.

As a form of conformity, I want to tell you that one of you as in likewise I have also invested in PG. Total value I computed is about S$27k consisting AAA and boron. May not be much compared to many of you but its really all I have. The reason why I went into PG was because I dislike shares as I feel that it pretty much depends on public confidence and forecast on the company’s performance. So I went into PG hoping to gain (high) consistent returns.

I was recently offered a gbp13k (~S$30k) AAA a week ago by the CSO which I was indeed interested. Fortunately, I called up a kind friend of mine for advise and she directed me here. Reading all your comments here really made me worried and I pull off from this offer. However, the other investments of PG will still have to wait till next year jun.

Well, the reason why I am here is to contribute and hope to get to the bottom of this. I know some accounting by training and have requested PG’s annual return from acra to assess its solvency. If you can contribute and want a copy, please request from me via email.

Okay, let me tell you what I know. PG has yet submit their accounts as at 31 Mar 09. The delay could be because that they have requested from an extension for submission. So the one that I have is dated 31 Mar 08 audited by Deloitte. For those who doesnt know, in the report we can see their financial performance for 2007 and 2008.

Net loss 0.6m in 2007 and Profit 0.9m in 2008.
Liquid assets 22m (CAB 7.4m) in 2007 and 42m (CAB 5m) in 2008.
CAB = cash at bank.
Liquid liabilities 24m in 2007 and 46m in 2008.
Share Capital 4,900 in 2007 and 2.1m in 2008.
Retained profit 0.6m in 2007 and 1.6m in 2008.

Lets stop here, these figures may be kind of outdated but tell tales. In my opinion, they made reasonable profit in 2008, probably through diversification from landbank. They always have cashflow problem (Liab > Assets) but they have money if they want to pay us (see their CAB). Any accountant here that can share some opinion?

In my opinion, it doesn’t seem that PG is very insolvent. Problem on cashflow, yes but I would say generally biz is sound. Which company doesn’t have cashflow problem now and then especially when expanding? So I don’t think they will go down soon, beside they have so much receivable.

But I do not understand what the big trade secret behind on why PG cant pay up timely or come upfront and resolved these issues manly. This worries me. And people working there, be it mgr or cso. Arent you worried being in company like this? Arent you ethically concern about the possibility of selling nonsense products to investors who trusted in you like your family, relatives, friends and even yourself may have bought some. For those working in PG, i would encourage you to email anyone of us to meet up and speak up.

Cheap&Gd – can you remember and reveal how was the payment made to you like? Was it in cheque and if so how many and who are the signatory(ies)? The rationale is to know who the right person(s) is to chase for payment and not those helpless CSO and mgr.

Belledonne99 – I am impressed with your action towards PG and i learn great things from you. You seem to know quite a bit about the company. Through you, we may be able to find a way out. Thanks for your input this far.

Redkop74 – Based on what I know, the amount invested in boron was plainly used to fund boron and secured by the contract between PG and the buyer(s). if there is no cost to you, can you check with your lawyer if he/she can obtain fact from Deloitte (auditor) re boron’s existence? If can be done and the cost isnt high, I am willing to bear to ascertain if a criminal charge exist or is our investment in boron secured.

Lastly, can anyone tell with me on the relevant documents that we should have for AAA and boron? I want to make sure that I am prepared incase I need to pursue the matter. Thanks in advance.

Mouth dry already…..

Merry Xmas and Happy New Year.

 

[kelvintyy]

Okay, let me tell you what I know. PG has yet submit their accounts as at 31 Mar 09. The delay could be because that they have requested from an extension for submission. So the one that I have is dated 31 Mar 08 audited by Deloitte. For those who doesnt know, in the report we can see their financial performance for 2007 and 2008.

Net loss 0.6m in 2007 and Profit 0.9m in 2008.
Liquid assets 22m (CAB 7.4m) in 2007 and 42m (CAB 5m) in 2008.
CAB = cash at bank.
Liquid liabilities 24m in 2007 and 46m in 2008.
Share Capital 4,900 in 2007 and 2.1m in 2008.
Retained profit 0.6m in 2007 and 1.6m in 2008.

Lets stop here, these figures may be kind of outdated but tell tales. In my opinion, they made reasonable profit in 2008, probably through diversification from landbank. They always have cashflow problem (Liab > Assets) but they have money if they want to pay us (see their CAB). Any accountant here that can share some opinion?

In my opinion, it doesn’t seem that PG is very insolvent. Problem on cashflow, yes but I would say generally biz is sound. Which company doesn’t have cashflow problem now and then especially when expanding? So I don’t think they will go down soon, beside they have so much receivable.

But I do not understand what the big trade secret behind on why PG cant pay up timely or come upfront and resolved these issues manly. This worries me. And people working there, be it mgr or cso. Arent you worried being in company like this? Arent you ethically concern about the possibility of selling nonsense products to investors who trusted in you like your family, relatives, friends and even yourself may have bought some. For those working in PG, i would encourage you to email anyone of us to meet up and speak up.

Lastly, can anyone tell with me on the relevant documents that we should have for AAA and boron? I want to make sure that I am prepared incase I need to pursue the matter. Thanks in advance.

Mouth dry already…..

Merry Xmas and Happy New Year.

Hi there,

I also have a copy of their financial report. Looking at the figures, 2008 is the best year for the company .It is probably due to the sale of AAA plots which is sold during Jan 2008 till last quarter of 2008. They had completely sold out their AAA plot.

They have to repay AAA investors at the end of 1 year 12.5% acccording to contract if investors renew. If they surrender the investment, PG will buy back the property at principal sum plus 12.5%.

What you are offered now, is probably some other surrendered AAA plot or someone resale's AAA plot.

The other thing you need to verify is whether at the point of your AAA plot maturity, do you have the option to surrender or can only renew or convert based on PG's discretion.
Pls make sure you have it "black and white" from their directors.

The documents you need to see are: Purchase Ageement, Transfer title and a copy of their AAA exercise form which they will use when your investments mature. (Same as Boron)

We will wait for their yr 2009 financial report as now it is coming to 2010. (Happy New Year in Advance). As 2009, some of PG major obvious expenses that we can see are:

1) Liverpool Asian Tour Expenses
2) Repaying AAA investors and Boron Investors
3) Espn Adverts


We shall wait and see. We also hope that PG is able to overcome their own "cashflow" crisis so that they have the money to pay us investors. I believe this delay issue only started in the middle of this year, that means, before that, PG has been paying investors promptly.

For me,I already treat this as a lesson learnt for not doing my due diligence before buying. I should engage a lawyer to study the purchase agreement first.
As whether I am confident to get my money back, I will say 50% at the moment.

 

[lockks]

Few months ago, i was on mrt and i saw a woman holding on to a profitable group file. She was trying to memorise the project. It seems she was going to sell this project later to a customer. i could hear her trying to force herself to swallow the facts. She doesn't look very convincing at all.

 

[henrylbh]

Few months ago, i was on mrt and i saw a woman holding on to a profitable group file. She was trying to memorise the project. It seems she was going to sell this project later to a customer. i could hear her trying to force herself to swallow the facts. She doesn't look very convincing at all.

Pls check your pm.

 

[temjin38]

Paper gain as good as no gain if not realised

Hi kelvintyy,

Thanks for your respond. I am happy that there is someone I can speak to on this.

My view is that the profit was because of boron and other new products other than landbank. From one of its CSO I spoke to, the landbank causes quite a lot of damage in the company. However, PG diversed it biz and somehow balanced up.

The other thing I like to share is that I was paid off 100% from PG for AAA purchased at gbp3k last year. The processing was slow indeed (~2-3months+) however still got the “money”. However, two setbacks – lost in xchange (2.75 buy 2.1 sell) and I reinvested them in boron. So now back to square one.

Now that you mentioned buying back AAA by PG. I realised that now PG claimed that the AAA that I bought cannot realised unless planning permission or Phillipines site sold. Anyone else owning AAA who has the same problem as me?

From what PG claimed, the phillipines site will material within 3-6 months. Okay, lets be pessimistic, say 9-12 months. Still, very good profit (i.e. 100%). But now very scare already seeing you guys deal with these people w/o responsibility, accountability and balls to speak up. Whats the point of earning paper gain when we never get to spend it.

 

[kelvintyy]

Hi kelvintyy,

Thanks for your respond. I am happy that there is someone I can speak to on this.

My view is that the profit was because of boron and other new products other than landbank. From one of its CSO I spoke to, the landbank causes quite a lot of damage in the company. However, PG diversed it biz and somehow balanced up.

The other thing I like to share is that I was paid off 100% from PG for AAA purchased at gbp3k last year. The processing was slow indeed (~2-3months+) however still got the “money”. However, two setbacks – lost in xchange (2.75 buy 2.1 sell) and I reinvested them in boron. So now back to square one.

Now that you mentioned buying back AAA by PG. I realised that now PG claimed that the AAA that I bought cannot realised unless planning permission or Phillipines site sold. Anyone else owning AAA who has the same problem as me?

From what PG claimed, the phillipines site will material within 3-6 months. Okay, lets be pessimistic, say 9-12 months. Still, very good profit (i.e. 100%). But now very scare already seeing you guys deal with these people w/o responsibility, accountability and balls to speak up. Whats the point of earning paper gain when we never get to spend it.

The site that you had been paid 100% is Guadaloupe. The only site in Philippines that they had paid last year november. I used that to buy boron which is still stuck till now as well.

Speaking of this year, it is still a big question mark whether they can at least give us back our principal. We shall wait and see.

One thing we can conclude is that during that good times, the investors benefit. But during their bad years, investors lose out. Payout delayed for as long they like and investors and local authorities cannot do anything about it.

What we known as "unfair consumer practice."
To be paid during this time, it is really up to the conscience of the directors of PG. Check with your lawyer if you want to buy some more.

 

[belledonne99]

Lastly, can anyone tell with me on the relevant documents that we should have for AAA and boron? I want to make sure that I am prepared in case I need to pursue the matter. Thanks in advance.

Hi temjin38, for Boron, supporting docs you need are:
- Boron transfer title & the attached option agreement
- Receipt from PG (proof that you had paid)
- The completed Boron exercise/surrender form that was submitted to PG or other proof that you had chosen to surrender Boron upon maturity.
- Other email exchanges with PG/ letters from them that may be useful

 

[belledonne99]

What is Contract for Sale of Goods?

SCT, after hearing both parties and taking a break to think thru' whether Boron falls under
the purview of SCT, decides that it does not. This is very surprising, taking into account
that both parties (ie. including Tim Goldring himself who represents PG) said Boron is NOT
an investment product at the consultation session! There is an underlying physical asset!
And there is a clear delivery schedule. And no where in the Boron contract does the word
'investment' appear.

Furthermore, MAS clearly states that PG is NOT licensed to sell investment products!

So the situation is: SCT said it's an investment. MAS said PG is not licensed to sell
investment products. So is Boron an investment product or not?

An appeal against the decision is unavoidable, at least it serves to clarify the situation

I searched for the definition of Contract for Sale of Goods. Found this on http://www.singaporelaw.sg/

"Scope of Application of SGA (Sale of Goods Act, Cap 393)

9.1.2 The SGA applies to any contract for the sale of goods i.e. a contract in which the seller transfers or agrees to transfer property in goods to the buyer for a money consideration called the price. Goods are defined in section 61(1) to include all personal chattels apart from things in action and money. If some consideration other than money is supplied, for example where goods are exchanged for other goods, the SGA does not apply."

Doesn't the Boron contract contain all these elements? Why is it an investment then?

 

[chubbytubby]

Glad you did found some answers to your questions here

Hi kelvintyy,

Thanks for your respond. I am happy that there is someone I can speak to on this.

My view is that the profit was because of boron and other new products other than landbank. From one of its CSO I spoke to, the landbank causes quite a lot of damage in the company. However, PG diversed it biz and somehow balanced up.

The other thing I like to share is that I was paid off 100% from PG for AAA purchased at gbp3k last year. The processing was slow indeed (~2-3months+) however still got the “money”. However, two setbacks – lost in xchange (2.75 buy 2.1 sell) and I reinvested them in boron. So now back to square one.

Now that you mentioned buying back AAA by PG. I realised that now PG claimed that the AAA that I bought cannot realised unless planning permission or Phillipines site sold. Anyone else owning AAA who has the same problem as me?

From what PG claimed, the phillipines site will material within 3-6 months. Okay, lets be pessimistic, say 9-12 months. Still, very good profit (i.e. 100%). But now very scare already seeing you guys deal with these people w/o responsibility, accountability and balls to speak up. Whats the point of earning paper gain when we never get to spend it.

Hi temjin38,

I think that a lot of the frustration here stems from a lack of transparency. When you deal with investors' hard-earned money, there is a moral obligation to be upfront.

About AAA, if at the time the product is offered you, it is clearly spelled out that unless the Philippines site is sold, you will not be able to liquidate, and you decide to proceed with the purchase, there can be no issues.

However, if the product is sold on the basis that the investor can opt out after 12months with his principal + 12.5%, and is backed up by an option agreement to that effect, to renege on that when the time to exercise the option is due, is simply not acceptable.

Has any of you bought AAA on the premise that you can liquidate after 12mths, only to be told upon maturity, that you can't?

Meanwhile, lets not allow any of this to dampen our spirits at this special time of year.

Merry Christmas & A Peaceful New Year to all of you!

 

[pp-vic]

Hi temjin38,

I think that a lot of the frustration here stems from a lack of transparency. When you deal with investors' hard-earned money, there is a moral obligation to be upfront.

About AAA, if at the time the product is offered you, it is clearly spelled out that unless the Philippines site is sold, you will not be able to liquidate, and you decide to proceed with the purchase, there can be no issues.

However, if the product is sold on the basis that the investor can opt out after 12months with his principal + 12.5%, and is backed up by an option agreement to that effect, to renege on that when the time to exercise the option is due, is simply not acceptable.

Has any of you bought AAA on the premise that you can liquidate after 12mths, only to be told upon maturity, that you can't?

Meanwhile, lets not allow any of this to dampen our spirits at this special time of year.

Merry Christmas & A Peaceful New Year to all of you!

Hi, there, I just check with Simon regarding AAA. He is saying that "You can excercise a surrender but it is not compulsory that the company will buy back the plot. The resale option is if any client would like to sell their AAA/plots and would like us to find a buyer PP will charge a 15% commission on the sell price."

 

[probono]

Optional buy back on the buy back option

"You can excercise a surrender but it is not compulsory that the company will buy back the plot.

Can someone post the small print for the buy back ?

It sounds like the buy back option is meaningless since Profitable Group apparently have the option not to buy back. Also it does seem a bit like insuring your insurance policy with the same company.

If they cant pay one they cant pay the other.

 

[temjin38]

PG has to prosper in order to get our money back

Dear all, the following are my views and opinions for discussion. Your views will be appreciated.

A good friend of mine recently told me that she visited the PG office to demand for her invested sum and was told that the “buy back” will be conducted upon “request”, not “demand” by investors. I was reluctant to believe until I pick up the contract this morning to reread them. In the contracts, it was clearly stated that…

“The transferor grants to the transferee an option during the option period to call for the transferor to buy back the property….”

Please note the word “call”. imo, this is cleverly drafted contract by PG I would say as I didn’t realised it when I signed then. In my understanding now, we may request PG to buy back the “property” however it is not our rights to demand. In other words, our principal will be stuck with PG as long as they say so. There is also no payment term in my contract for AAA. However and of course, they will be bound by the 12.5% interest (per se) per period by keeping our principals.

And if what I decipher is correct, whatever actions via lawyers or SCT are worth trying but should not expect favourable outcome. Now I understand why PG is still so cool after so many people is making noise.

Misrepresentation - they may be some ground we can fight for as this wasn’t the messages that were conveyed by the CSO to me. However, from what I understand, many CSO didn’t realise that clause when they sold the products. And many (CSOs) too I believe are victims struck like us as they too also bought the investments and signed the same contract. Any (ex-)CSO that will like to come forward?

Liquidity - Regardless of PG’s liquidity, they don’t have to pay us. They might as well keep our monies for expansion, overheads or tahan till the Philippines site sold. Beside, from bad publicity and economy picking up they should have greater difficulty introducing new investors. In my view, PG is having liquidity problems and they are going to default all payments (including interests) till they can get incomes. The only way I can see to that is the Philippines site. Whatever income from Boron is not substantial enough to compensate us.

Con company? - I keep having this concept that they deceive me but now I have to admit that it is my incompetency to assess these investments. The paragraphs are clearly stated in front of me when I signed but I just don’t get it. The latest gbp13k AAA offered has a change of clause, it is clearly stated that there are only two options that the principal can be returned i.e. planning permission or Philippines site sold. PG has redrafted the contract so that (maybe) for investors to know what they are buying. Or could be that there are flaws in the earlier contract (i.e. the ones that we are having on hand) but I haven’t been able to see them yet. I really don’t know.

Assets tied for AAA - I feel that PG will pay us soon, may six to nine months. This is because they will also be struck in progress for the UK land and Philippines site. So long, they choose not to pay us they cannot make progress in these assets. And if these assets are sold off, we can rightfully claim what ours and if not sue.

Boron - Based on what I understand, there are three options re Boron. They are (1) renew together with compounded interest, (2) renew capital and collect interest and (3) withdraw and take all paper value back. Base on the PG’s condition now, come on, (2) and (3) doesn’t seem doable because they have no money to pay us. So, only one option left for now.

Kelvintyy - One of the things that I agree with you on is life still have to goes on. I am working on your statement. However, I never believe directors have any conscience because they are business persons. If we hinder their profit, they will pay us to make us go away if not we wait long long also don’t have. My principle is whatever is rightfully mine, I will bite my way through to get them back if necessary. Like you say, we shall wait and see since I have to wait till ~ June 10.

Probono - the buyback option is not meaningless, they are tie with the 12.5% that PG is suppose to pay us per term. If we sue, we will win for the 12.5% (remember, not capital) but too bad that we can’t get it now anyway.

pp-vic - your nick (pp=profitable plot) sounds like you are one of them. haha… just joking, or are you? You are right (I think), unfortunately. PG is not obligated to buyback.

Belledonne99 – Thanks for the infor on docs for boron. I have those docs already. How about AAA, do you know what docs that we should have? btw, please comment on my opinions (above). I think your views mean a lot to us.

Don’t get me wrong, I haven’t given up yet. I am still looking for options that I can realise these “assets”. At least for now, I will hold on six more months for further outcome (hopefully for the better) and higher paper gain since I have just renewed my boron Nov. The bottomline, 12.5% is still high and so long PG is alive I will get back my capital later.

That is only one way I can think of to get away, that is to prove existence of criminal charges (e.g. Boron, Philippines site, UK land doesn’t belong to PG or doesn’t exist) relevant to our investments. Anyone has a plan to find out, if so count me in?

If there is anyone, a white knight that can tell me that I maybe wrong somewhere and there could be a way out of this, i would love to hear from you or you may pm me to meet up. Thanks.

 

[kelvintyy]

Hi guys,

found this AAA brochure online.

http://www.profitablegroup.com/docs/AAAPlots.pdf

There is no disclaimer attached to it. If you are a prospect, what will you think if you read this brochure, plus the promise of the salesperson gives you when he sells you this product?

 

[joyjoyhope]

to get your money back

Hi all..

I got my money from a boron contract back recently, after going down to the office consistently for a week plus. IMO, profitable group seems to be playing a test of the wills. If you wear them down bad enough, you can get your money back. You may be provoked, but you must stay calm. Show your anger and be firm about wanting your money back.

Simon also gave me the line about he himself having a few investments stuck and waiting for money to come back. But I refused to accept their arguments.

Signature on my cheque was Tim Goldring's, to answer the question of one of the earlier posts. So to get your money back, the person to hound is Goldring. The 2nd in command is John Nordman.

Dear all, the following are my views and opinions for discussion. Your views will be appreciated.

“The transferor grants to the transferee an option during the option period to call for the transferor to buy back the property….”

Please note the word “call”. imo, this is cleverly drafted contract by PG I would say as I didn’t realised it when I signed then. In my understanding now, we may request PG to buy back the “property” however it is not our rights to demand. In other words, our principal will be stuck with PG as long as they say so. There is also no payment term in my contract for AAA. However and of course, they will be bound by the 12.5% interest (per se) per period by keeping our principals.

I have a similar paragraph on my boron contract. In your contract, is the full sentence “The transferor grants to the transferee an option during the option period to call for the transferor to buy back the property with full titile guarantee .. provided that an Option Notice must be served not more than 30 days prior to the end of the Option Period.” I have had this document looked at legally, the advice is, this sentence only applies if at our end, we would like to cash out the contract more than one month before the end of the contract. Meanwhile, elsewhere in the contract, it clearly states the option period.

 

[joyjoyhope]

good luck

And if what I decipher is correct, whatever actions via lawyers or SCT are worth trying but should not expect favourable outcome. Now I understand why PG is still so cool after so many people is making noise.

Liquidity - Regardless of PG’s liquidity, they don’t have to pay us. They might as well keep our monies for expansion, overheads or tahan till the Philippines site sold. Beside, from bad publicity and economy picking up they should have greater difficulty introducing new investors. In my view, PG is having liquidity problems and they are going to default all payments (including interests) till they can get incomes. The only way I can see to that is the Philippines site. Whatever income from Boron is not substantial enough to compensate us.

Kelvintyy - One of the things that I agree with you on is life still have to goes on. I am working on your statement. However, I never believe directors have any conscience because they are business persons. If we hinder their profit, they will pay us to make us go away if not we wait long long also don’t have. My principle is whatever is rightfully mine, I will bite my way through to get them back if necessary. Like you say, we shall wait and see since I have to wait till ~ June 10.

Probono - the buyback option is not meaningless, they are tie with the 12.5% that PG is suppose to pay us per term. If we sue, we will win for the 12.5% (remember, not capital) but too bad that we can’t get it now anyway.

Don’t get me wrong, I haven’t given up yet. I am still looking for options that I can realise these “assets”. At least for now, I will hold on six more months for further outcome (hopefully for the better) and higher paper gain since I have just renewed my boron Nov. The bottomline, 12.5% is still high and so long PG is alive I will get back my capital later.

That is only one way I can think of to get away, that is to prove existence of criminal charges (e.g. Boron, Philippines site, UK land doesn’t belong to PG or doesn’t exist) relevant to our investments. Anyone has a plan to find out, if so count me in?

Thanks.

As far as I know, there are some in this forum who have started recovery of money by legal action, by way of lawyer's letter. PG may choose to ignore, just like they are choosing to stonewall payment for mature contracts. They may think that we will consider the cost of a lawsuit so prohibitive that after the letter, we resign ourselves to wait. I think, you must make it very clear to PG that you are serious about sueing. I think that actions by lawsuit or SCT is important, that PG would rather avoid lawsuit (which is very expensive for them also) and thus pay what is due to one individual investor. Thus, legal action is not about hoping what the court will award to you, but that it is a tactic to apply enough pressure to budge PG. But first, you must be able to show them that you are very, very serious about filing a lawsuit.

Yes, life goes on. I sincerely hope that all here will be able to recover your money back successfully.

 

[belledonne99]

I feel that to renew the contract is not an option. It's like delaying your problem (and PG's) to a later date. If your contract has reached maturity, press for payment. I agree with Joyjoyhope, you have to keep the pressure on PG & never never assume that they have no money to pay. They own assets (never mind how much cash they have) that could be sold off if need be for cash.

It is unfair & unacceptable for PG to transfer all their risk to us. Yet, that's exactly what they are doing: for Boron, they claimed they could only pay us when their Dubai customers have paid them! That means customers bear all the risks including risk of default?!?!? I don't buy this argument at all! I told Goldring that I will never accept this as an excuse.

The contractual terms are to our advantage. I don't think PG has a case. At least Goldring has not twisted any words in the Boron contract to their advantage when speaking to me.

For me, I will spend another $20 to appeal against SCT's order. I want an answer on whether the authorities consider Boron an investment or not.