Refinance HDB Loan - Advice pls

cran87

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I'm thinking of refinancing my HDB loan (current 2.6%) with the banks, who are currently offering low interest rates.

DBS is offering 1.48% for first yr.

Anyone has done this before? What is the pros and cons?

My outstanding loan is 190K and I plan to clear within 6-7yrs.
 

buswhiz

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I'm thinking of refinancing my HDB loan (current 2.6%) with the banks, who are currently offering low interest rates.

DBS is offering 1.48% for first yr.

Anyone has done this before? What is the pros and cons?

My outstanding loan is 190K and I plan to clear within 6-7yrs.

try this website www.housingloansg.com, where they will help you on that.. they r the mortgage agent...
 

Fifa2006

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Hi Cran87,

I am a Mortgage Broker.
My advice for you is stay with HDB loan.
Once you are out of HDB loan you will have to get bank loan for the rest of the housing loan tenor.

Below are the few reasons:
1) Although HDB Loan interest is higher than normal bank rate right now but it has been stable at that rate for years. Bank rate changes every year and you will have to refinance every 3 years so that you can get the best rate in the market. For the past few years, interest rate range from as low as 0.88% - 4%
2)Different bank have different criteria. Some banks minimum loan size for HDB is $80k while some are $100k. For your case if you plan to clear within 6-7years it means that you can do refinancing for 2 time and this 2 time will incur you partial legal fee(although bank do subsidise for you)

As a broker, we are paid by the bank. But i always advice my customer to continue with HDB loan if they can. Unless they dun meet the HDB criteria, i will then assist them for the bank loan.

Hope this helps

I'm thinking of refinancing my HDB loan (current 2.6%) with the banks, who are currently offering low interest rates.

DBS is offering 1.48% for first yr.

Anyone has done this before? What is the pros and cons?

My outstanding loan is 190K and I plan to clear within 6-7yrs.
 

oldman09

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Actually what Fifa2006 is totally right. You should just stay with HDB as their loan rates have been pretty low and stable all along. You need to understand that bank rates are adjusted VERY frequently and actually fluctuate according to the economy.

If you do decided to get a bank loan, you will have to keep refinancing every few years (when the lock in period is over) so as to get the lowest rate at that time, which could be lower than 2.6% or higher than 2.6%, Not forgetting the legal fees and other fees which actually add up to your costs.

All in all, it's up to you, as I always advise my clients, HDB loan is the most stable loan and easy going loan that you can ever get in your life. And you can only get it for up to 2 times in your life (Or was it 3?). If you suddenly get hard up and can't repay, they won't force you and when you recover from your financial difficulties, you can arrange an installment plan to repay the backdated loans.

Below is also an example of why I believe HDB loans is the best. And also a real life example that I always use to explain to my clients.

Let's say I have 100k on hand and I can either 1) pay off my hdb loan and be debt free, or 2) Invest that money and get some returns.
Imagine if I had invested that money in something that can get returns of higher than 2.6%/pa with the money I have (instead of paying off my housing loan at one shot with that money), I can proudly say that HDB is loaning me the money to invest. Like what Robert Kiyosaki says, make full use of other people's money. And HDB's money is one of the cheapest and uncommercialized loans I can ever get.

Not to shoot down anyone or any banks in particular but I have been thru a few recessions and there will always be a few phrases that are heard commonly on the streets when recessions come. The best one that I always quote is :

1) Banks lend you the umbrella when it's sunny (Times are good) and ask for the umbrella back when it's raining (times are bad)

This is very very true. How many of you have received calls from financial institutions offering you super low interest or even interest free loans (read the fine print, only for first few days/weeks or months at the most) when times are good. (Not hard up for cash right? Nevermind, have you thought of going on a holiday or renovating your place?)


And how many of you actually receive such calls when times are bad?

And how many of you actually read about, and remember about all the repossessing being done when economies are down?

Look at all our poor SMEs or family businesses trying to make ends meet and how many of them have folded because of this exact quote. When times are good, banks lend money to such people to buy properties, expand businesses, when times are bad, banks ask for the money back and if you can't pay, kiss everything goodbye.

Last but not least let me tell you a story of how banks work. The guy I'm talking about is a client of mine and we frequently meet up for coffee. He tells me alot of stories and gives me alot of guidance. I'm sure some of you, after reading this story, would understand this situation better.

Lets name this guy A. A buys a property for 2.5million and gets a loan for 80%. Loan amount is 2m and up front of 500k cash. Everything is fine, loan payments made regularly and A even receives calls from the same bank asking if he wants any other loans and/or OD facilities.

Economic crisis comes, price of property drops. Bank revalues the property at 2.2m. Asks for topup to the loan, as the property's value has dropped. A has no choice but to fork out 240k in CASH to the bank. (Outstanding loan (2m) - max amount of loan for new property (1.76m))

Economic crisis continues, property valuation drops to 1.9m, A forks out another 240k. (1.76m - 1.52m)

Economic crisis continue again. property valuation is now 1.4m (Yes this is exact and true thing of what happened to A, although it's not such a drastic drop. If I'm not wrong, over the whole period (around 5-6 years), A had to top up about 5 times, until the valuation was at the bottom price of 1.4m, I just skipped over and went to 1.4m.) A has to fork out (1.52m - 1.12m) another 300k.

And now A has actually forked out (In CASH) a total of :

500k (initial cash 20%) + 240k (First re-valuation) + 240k (2nd revaluation) + 300k (3rd revaluation).


500k + 240k + 240k + 300 = 1.28m

How many of you actually able to survive this?

Credit to A, as he managed to survive this, by selling alot of his other properties at a loss. Credit to the SG Govt, which introduced and allowed re-financing.
Lastly, Credit to another bank which actually saved him by revaluating the exact property few months later at 1.7m which saved him from bankruptcy.

Please note that this matter happened sometime back (1997) and a friend of mine told me that such cases are now very rare. I am not too sure whether these stuffs will happen again but most importantly, Caveat Empor.
 
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cran87

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Dear bros,

thanks alot for your great advice. will stick with my HDB loan and work towards my goal of being debt-free.
 

yeokiwi

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Assume both couple A and couple B have monthly $2015 of CPF contribution,
couple A - 30 years, 300k loan at 2.6% interest rate. Monthly payment = $1201
couple B - 15 years, 300k loan at 2.6% interest rate. Monthly payment = $2015
For couple A,
Assuming the couple A invests the difference of ($2015-$1201)*12 = $9768 with 2.5% return for 30 years,
The capital with investment gain at the end of 30 years is $428841.
For couple B,
Assuming the couple invests $2015*12 = $24180 at 2.5% return from 16th to 30th year,
The capital with investment gain at the end of 15 years is $433593.
So, at the end of 30 years,
Both couples A and B had repaid the loan but couple B is only ahead by $4752.

If 3.5% is taken into consideration for 30 years, couple A will definitely be ahead of couple B.
After 30 years, couple A will have $444405.
couple B will have $441062.
 

d5dude

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You should go ahead and refinance at the lower rate with a bank if you have the means to pay up after 3 years (since rates are only "fixed for 3 years max), you can always redeem the outstanding loan should interest rates rise substantially by then, but of course do read thru the fine print before you do this. Some banks will impose a heavy penalty for early redemption, especially if the promo rates happen to be extremely low.
 

d5dude

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Actually what Fifa2006 is totally right. You should just stay with HDB as their loan rates have been pretty low and stable all along. You need to understand that bank rates are adjusted VERY frequently and actually fluctuate according to the economy.

If you do decided to get a bank loan, you will have to keep refinancing every few years (when the lock in period is over) so as to get the lowest rate at that time, which could be lower than 2.6% or higher than 2.6%, Not forgetting the legal fees and other fees which actually add up to your costs.

All in all, it's up to you, as I always advise my clients, HDB loan is the most stable loan and easy going loan that you can ever get in your life. And you can only get it for up to 2 times in your life (Or was it 3?). If you suddenly get hard up and can't repay, they won't force you and when you recover from your financial difficulties, you can arrange an installment plan to repay the backdated loans.

Below is also an example of why I believe HDB loans is the best. And also a real life example that I always use to explain to my clients.

Let's say I have 100k on hand and I can either 1) pay off my hdb loan and be debt free, or 2) Invest that money and get some returns.
Imagine if I had invested that money in something that can get returns of higher than 2.6%/pa with the money I have (instead of paying off my housing loan at one shot with that money), I can proudly say that HDB is loaning me the money to invest. Like what Robert Kiyosaki says, make full use of other people's money. And HDB's money is one of the cheapest and uncommercialized loans I can ever get.

Not to shoot down anyone or any banks in particular but I have been thru a few recessions and there will always be a few phrases that are heard commonly on the streets when recessions come. The best one that I always quote is :

1) Banks lend you the umbrella when it's sunny (Times are good) and ask for the umbrella back when it's raining (times are bad)

This is very very true. How many of you have received calls from financial institutions offering you super low interest or even interest free loans (read the fine print, only for first few days/weeks or months at the most) when times are good. (Not hard up for cash right? Nevermind, have you thought of going on a holiday or renovating your place?)


And how many of you actually receive such calls when times are bad?

And how many of you actually read about, and remember about all the repossessing being done when economies are down?

Look at all our poor SMEs or family businesses trying to make ends meet and how many of them have folded because of this exact quote. When times are good, banks lend money to such people to buy properties, expand businesses, when times are bad, banks ask for the money back and if you can't pay, kiss everything goodbye.

Last but not least let me tell you a story of how banks work. The guy I'm talking about is a client of mine and we frequently meet up for coffee. He tells me alot of stories and gives me alot of guidance. I'm sure some of you, after reading this story, would understand this situation better.

Lets name this guy A. A buys a property for 2.5million and gets a loan for 80%. Loan amount is 2m and up front of 500k cash. Everything is fine, loan payments made regularly and A even receives calls from the same bank asking if he wants any other loans and/or OD facilities.

Economic crisis comes, price of property drops. Bank revalues the property at 2.2m. Asks for topup to the loan, as the property's value has dropped. A has no choice but to fork out 240k in CASH to the bank. (Outstanding loan (2m) - max amount of loan for new property (1.76m))

Economic crisis continues, property valuation drops to 1.9m, A forks out another 240k. (1.76m - 1.52m)

Economic crisis continue again. property valuation is now 1.4m (Yes this is exact and true thing of what happened to A, although it's not such a drastic drop. If I'm not wrong, over the whole period (around 5-6 years), A had to top up about 5 times, until the valuation was at the bottom price of 1.4m, I just skipped over and went to 1.4m.) A has to fork out (1.52m - 1.12m) another 300k.

And now A has actually forked out (In CASH) a total of :

500k (initial cash 20%) + 240k (First re-valuation) + 240k (2nd revaluation) + 300k (3rd revaluation).


500k + 240k + 240k + 300 = 1.28m

How many of you actually able to survive this?

Credit to A, as he managed to survive this, by selling alot of his other properties at a loss. Credit to the SG Govt, which introduced and allowed re-financing.
Lastly, Credit to another bank which actually saved him by revaluating the exact property few months later at 1.7m which saved him from bankruptcy.

Please note that this matter happened sometime back (1997) and a friend of mine told me that such cases are now very rare. I am not too sure whether these stuffs will happen again but most importantly, Caveat Empor.

This is not true. Local banks do not do "margin calls" on mortgages unless you miss a payment.
 

oldman09

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This is not true. Local banks do not do "margin calls" on mortgages unless you miss a payment.

Nope, I heard it first hand from a survivor of the financial crisis. It could be that they have stopped doing it, not too sure but they did do it during 1997-2000+ period. as it happened during that period
 

yeokiwi

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This is not true. Local banks do not do "margin calls" on mortgages unless you miss a payment.

http://www.dbs.com/sg/personal/homeloans/resource/terms/mortgageloan.pdf

32 Security Margin

32.1 We may from time to time conduct valuation or revaluation at your cost and expense. You shall allow us or our valuer to have access to the Property.

32.2 If the market value of the Property falls below what we, in our sole opinion, consider to be an adequate security margin we shall be entitled, without prejudice to any other right which we have, to reduce the Facility, withhold the release or further release of the Facility, and/or to require repayment of such amount of the Facility as we may specify and/or require additional security acceptable to us to be provided to us.
 

Fifa2006

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From my customer experience, some actually get margin call during the crisis. Most of them miss some payment. To be exact, you can check with the bank before you proceed on signing the Letter Of Offer. You will not be bound to the contract when you sign the application form. You are only bound to the contract when you sign the letter of offer (LO)
 

oldman09

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There, thanks for providing the evidence to show that this type of cases are real. So please be really careful on what you guys do.
 

anddrool

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If you got your new flat directly from HDB and using HDB loan, my advise is do not change to bank loan.

There are two 2 main reason:
1) Bank loan. First 2 years interest rate maybe low and subsequent years will is much higher than HDB interest rate.
2) This is most people fail to notice. If you are using bank loan, you will face CPF AHWL(available housing withdrawal limit) and 120% VL. In other words, in the future you will not be able to finance your loan using CPF when you reach the withdrawal limit. You have to use cash to service your monthly installment.

For your reference:
http://mycpf.cpf.gov.sg/NR/rdonlyres/2E34DA0E-8648-4E98-908D-B519EC6428B7/0/hsgCpfLimitSummary.pdf
 
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annai

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Hi Cran87,

I am a Mortgage Broker.
My advice for you is stay with HDB loan.
Once you are out of HDB loan you will have to get bank loan for the rest of the housing loan tenor.

Below are the few reasons:
1) Although HDB Loan interest is higher than normal bank rate right now but it has been stable at that rate for years. Bank rate changes every year and you will have to refinance every 3 years so that you can get the best rate in the market. For the past few years, interest rate range from as low as 0.88% - 4%
2)Different bank have different criteria. Some banks minimum loan size for HDB is $80k while some are $100k. For your case if you plan to clear within 6-7years it means that you can do refinancing for 2 time and this 2 time will incur you partial legal fee(although bank do subsidise for you)

As a broker, we are paid by the bank. But i always advice my customer to continue with HDB loan if they can. Unless they dun meet the HDB criteria, i will then assist them for the bank loan.

Hope this helps

Good and Honest advice.
 

Fifa2006

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Hi anddrool,

I have several customers with few properties on hand and till now none have encounter CPF AHWL. Not sure if my tots is right. Bank loan to consumer maximum of 80% for the 1st property. For it to go beyond 120%VL is quite difficult, reason being is Singapore land is small and most property appreciate in value.

Just my 2 cents worth of tots!

If you got your new flat directly from HDB and using HDB loan, my advise is do not change to bank loan.

There are two 2 main reason:
1) Bank loan. First 2 years interest rate maybe low and subsequent years will is much higher than HDB interest rate.
2) This is most people fail to notice. If you are using bank loan, you will face CPF AHWL(available housing withdrawal limit) and 120% VL. In other words, in the future you will not be able to finance your loan using CPF when you reach the withdrawal limit. You have to use cash to service your monthly installment.

For your reference:
http://mycpf.cpf.gov.sg/NR/rdonlyres/2E34DA0E-8648-4E98-908D-B519EC6428B7/0/hsgCpfLimitSummary.pdf
 

IntelFlash

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Can i ask something.

Say i buy a house, it's $350000
I down 20%, left $280000

If it's 2.6% interest, meaning $7280 a year of interest, 30 years loan will be $218400.
Won't the house cost me $568400?

Am i right or almost there.
 

yeokiwi

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Can i ask something.

Say i buy a house, it's $350000
I down 20%, left $280000

If it's 2.6% interest, meaning $7280 a year of interest, 30 years loan will be $218400.
Won't the house cost me $568400?

Am i right or almost there.

Your calculation is wrong. Mortgage loan is different from hire purchase.

http://www.fonerbooks.com/interest.htm
Use a calculator to calculate yourself + education of mortgage loan repayment concept.
 

IntelFlash

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Year Principal left Repayment a year Outstanding
1 280000 13215 266785
2 273721.41 13215 260506.41
3 267279.5767 13215 254064.5767
4 260670.2557 13215 247455.2557
5 253889.0923 13215 240674.0923
6 246931.6187 13215 233716.6187
7 239793.2508 13215 226578.2508
8 232469.2853 13215 219254.2853
9 224954.8967 13215 211739.8967
10 217245.134 13215 204030.134
11 209334.9175 13215 196119.9175
12 201219.0354 13215 188004.0354
13 192892.1403 13215 179677.1403
14 184348.7459 13215 171133.7459
15 175583.2233 13215 162368.2233
16 166589.7971 13215 153374.7971
17 157362.5419 13215 144147.5419
18 147895.378 13215 134680.378
19 138182.0678 13215 124967.0678
20 128216.2116 13215 115001.2116
21 117991.2431 13215 104776.2431
22 107500.4254 13215 94285.42537
23 96736.84643 13215 83521.84643
24 85693.41444 13215 72478.41444
25 74362.85322 13215 61147.85322
26 62737.6974 13215 49522.6974
27 50810.28753 13215 37595.28753
28 38572.76501 13215 25357.76501
29 26017.0669 13215 12802.0669
30 13134.92064 13215 -80.0793629

Total paid = 13215 * 30 years = $396450
Interest paid = 396450-280000= $116450

Then this correct?
 
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