Clean food and dirty food

[divasion]

As long as the daily protein intake hits over maintenance level, the rest of the calories comes from whatever food does not not makes a difference to fat gains when there is over maintenance calories intake right?

From example. You need 100g to maintain muscle mass and you take in 150g of protein per day.

Your maintenance calories level is 2,000 calories and you eat 2,300 calories for growth. You would gain the same amount of fats lets say the 2,300 calories comes from dirty vs clean food as long as the same amount of protein is met?.

The only difference is whether its healthy anot right?

 

[Elliden]

How about ur carbs and fats?

 

[jokerk]

IIFYM vs "clean meals".

from what I understand, to meet our macros and daily calorie intake requires the main portion of our meals to be " clean". it just gives allowance for some " dirty" food just to meet up daily calorie intake.

 

[Sid404]

As long as the daily protein intake hits over maintenance level, the rest of the calories comes from whatever food does not not makes a difference to fat gains when there is over maintenance calories intake right?

From example. You need 100g to maintain muscle mass and you take in 150g of protein per day.

Your maintenance calories level is 2,000 calories and you eat 2,300 calories for growth. You would gain the same amount of fats lets say the 2,300 calories comes from dirty vs clean food as long as the same amount of protein is met?.

The only difference is whether its healthy anot right?

One factor is your body fat percentage. Another factor depends on how insulin sensitive you are, like say you just did a high volume/heavy workout that depleted your glycogen stores quite a bit. There is a higher chance of those extra calories from carbs getting stored intracellularly. Fats are usually stored. And it's been said there is unlikely any benefit to going over your daily fat requirements. As for carb type, it's kinda out of our control where the body chooses to partition it so just try to get the majority of the good ol' fashioned "clean" carbs.

 

[xSup3r]

IIFYM, if it fits your macros.

Macros can come from whatever food you take in as long as you hit your macros. simple.

The "kinds" of food you eat will not affect your body composition.

 

[ketua]

It's not just calories and micronutrients.
Take note of the hormonal response to your body.

 

[divasion]

IIFYM, if it fits your macros.

Macros can come from whatever food you take in as long as you hit your macros. simple.

The "kinds" of food you eat will not affect your body composition.

Because regardless of the food u eat,as long as the protein requirements to grow is met, the excess calories is enough to provide growth, the "leftover" surplus calories would just turn over into fats no matter what source they come from right?Since the required amount of excess calories is met.For example, you need eat 500calories over 2000 calories which is 2500(the exact amount of calories to grow and gain zero fats at all but you ate 2750.

What do you mean by hormonal response

 

[xSup3r]

Because regardless of the food u eat,as long as the protein requirements to grow is met, the excess calories is enough to provide growth, the "leftover" surplus calories would just turn over into fats no matter what source they come from right?Since the required amount of excess calories is met.For example, you need eat 500calories over 2000 calories which is 2500(the exact amount of calories to grow and gain zero fats at all but you ate 2750.

What do you mean by hormonal response

uwotm8

you're supposed to eat the at the amount of calories you're supposed to eat at. 2500, 3000, etc
you can have what ever food you want to have to meet the macros. geddit?

by hormonal response he means the food that you eat may trigger a hormonal respond. (growth hormone, estrogen, testosterone, etc) but they're too minimal to care about unless you're eating extremely large amounts of them or you're on dat dere.

 

[frostbyte88]

uwotm8

you're supposed to eat the at the amount of calories you're supposed to eat at. 2500, 3000, etc
you can have what ever food you want to have to meet the macros. geddit?

by hormonal response he means the food that you eat may trigger a hormonal respond. (growth hormone, estrogen, testosterone, etc) but they're too minimal to care about unless you're eating extremely large amounts of them or you're on dat dere.

by extension, this would also include cortisol, insulin, ghrelin etc, which impacts your body substancially. We can already see this in diebetics. Im still reading more into the theory that excess protein does not actually contribute to fat gain.

 

[derrickgyn]

IIFYM is rubbish. Sorry to all the folks out there who support it...because they happen to get shredded by doing IIFYM. The fact is that IIFYM is a very individual thing, it will work for guys who have great genetics, but for normal guys like myself IIFYM messes me up badly in terms of body composition.

 

[xSup3r]

by extension, this would also include cortisol, insulin, ghrelin etc, which impacts your body substancially. We can already see this in diebetics. Im still reading more into the theory that excess protein does not actually contribute to fat gain.

i do know cortisol can impact your body and performance significantly but not so much about ghrelin and insulin.

as for excess protein converting into fat, Excess Protein and Fat Storage - Q&A | BodyRecomposition - The Home of Lyle McDonald

^ written by lyle mcd.

IIFYM is rubbish. Sorry to all the folks out there who support it...because they happen to get shredded by doing IIFYM. The fact is that IIFYM is a very individual thing, it will work for guys who have great genetics, but for normal guys like myself IIFYM messes me up badly in terms of body composition.

i do not agree with this because IIFYM basically means calculating macros and calories. eating clean is considered IIFYM since it fits your macros.

but to each to their own.

 

[Sid404]

I believe in nutrient timing. Personally I believe calories and macros to be the most important when it comes to body composition but food choices can affect it to some degree IME. But those hormonal responses triggered by different foods interact with yet more hormonal responses caused by a myriad of factors like training, meal timing, etc, that to really get any meaningful idea how certain foods affect you and your lifestyle, one has to try it out for himself.

 

[derrickgyn]

i do not agree with this because IIFYM basically means calculating macros and calories. eating clean is considered IIFYM since it fits your macros.

but to each to their own.

Eating clean to fit macros is a given, but what most proponents of IIFYM believe is that carbs are carbs, fats are fats, and protein is well..protein! Which leads people to eat funny things like snickers for carbs, mcdonalds "beef" burgers for protein and fat from pretty much everywhere else

 

[xSup3r]

Eating clean to fit macros is a given, but what most proponents of IIFYM believe is that carbs are carbs, fats are fats, and protein is well..protein! Which leads people to eat funny things like snickers for carbs, mcdonalds "beef" burgers for protein and fat from pretty much everywhere else

Thermodynamics dictate that a calorie is a calorie regardless of the macro-nutrient composition of the diet.

Your body does not recognize whether the food your eating is ‘clean’ or ‘junk’. It will only recognize food’s for it’s nutrients, such as proteins, fats or carbohydrates.

For example; a McDonalds Seared Grand Chicken Burger is worth 501 calories which consists of 35.3g of protein, 15g of fat and 53.4g of carbohydrates.

Whereas, 130g of chicken, 25g of cashews and 120g boiled white rice is worth 520 calories which consists of 16.5g of fat, 55.2g of carbs and 37.9g of protein.

When you consume either of these meals, your body processes the food based on the macro-nutrient values (which you can see are extremely similar) and will yield the EXACT same effects on your body composition. These results are solely on body composition and do not take into account the micro-nutrients which your body needs in order to maintain your health, but you can always buy a multi.

 

[derrickgyn]

Thermodynamics dictate that a calorie is a calorie regardless of the macro-nutrient composition of the diet.

Your body does not recognize whether the food your eating is ‘clean’ or ‘junk’. It will only recognize food’s for it’s nutrients, such as proteins, fats or carbohydrates.

For example; a McDonalds Seared Grand Chicken Burger is worth 501 calories which consists of 35.3g of protein, 15g of fat and 53.4g of carbohydrates.

Whereas, 130g of chicken, 25g of cashews and 120g boiled white rice is worth 520 calories which consists of 16.5g of fat, 55.2g of carbs and 37.9g of protein.

When you consume either of these meals, your body processes the food based on the macro-nutrient values (which you can see are extremely similar) and will yield the EXACT same effects on your body composition. These results are solely on body composition and do not take into account the micro-nutrients which your body needs in order to maintain your health, but you can always buy a multi.

Yea i was disagreeing to this.

So you are saying:

Carbs from candy = carbs from quinoa?
Fats from fried food = fat from olive oil?
Protein from processed food = protein from grass fed beef?

Let's not take into account that protein in processed food tends to be inflated by the use of collagen etc, thing our body does not absorb.

I think its pretty obvious that body composition will be drastically different if the same guy eats only the first category of food, vs eating the second category of food. Your body might not know the difference between glucose and glucose, but that is AFTER everything has been broken down, during which a whole bunch of different responses occur. I'm 100% sure your body can tell the difference betwen sucrose and starch.

A calorie is not a calorie. It is simply a lazy method genetic freaks came up with to hit their calorie intake (hey if you had great genetics anything would work). Read poliquin's, Berardi's works etc.

 

[galapogos]

The calorie is a unit of energy. The way calories in foods are measured is by burning them and seeing how much calories it produces.

The body doesn't work like a furnace. It does not completely use up the energy available in the food, and it expends different amounts of energy digesting different kinds of food, how they're prepared, etc. Hence, calories from different sources have different effects on the body.

To think that the body treats all calories exactly the same is being overly simplistic. If that were the case, it would be the cheapest and most efficient to just drink oil for your daily caloric needs. Just a cup of it would meet your daily caloric requirements.

 

[xSup3r]

Yea i was disagreeing to this.

So you are saying:

Carbs from candy = carbs from quinoa?
Fats from fried food = fat from olive oil?
Protein from processed food = protein from grass fed beef?

Let's not take into account that protein in processed food tends to be inflated by the use of collagen etc, thing our body does not absorb.

I think its pretty obvious that body composition will be drastically different if the same guy eats only the first category of food, vs eating the second category of food. Your body might not know the difference between glucose and glucose, but that is AFTER everything has been broken down, during which a whole bunch of different responses occur. I'm 100% sure your body can tell the difference betwen sucrose and starch.

A calorie is not a calorie. It is simply a lazy method genetic freaks came up with to hit their calorie intake (hey if you had great genetics anything would work). Read poliquin's, Berardi's works etc.

the sum it up, yes.

What I'm saying is if you eat oats and brown rice compared to white bread and sugar donuts for you choice of carbohydratess it will have no difference at all on improving body composition. (as long as calorie intake is equal and macronutrient targets are met) Eating donuts won't automatically make you get fat. Gaining body fat is all about excess calories not the types of foods that you consume.

There is no such thins as "good" and "bad" foods, or "clean" and "dirty' foods" (unless you are talking about health wise). There is no list of foods your not allowed to eat to reach your body composition goals.

The Glycemic index is irrelevant because of the metabolic equation. It does not matter or make any difference whether you consume high GI food such as dextrose sugars compared to a low GI food such as oatmeal. It will make no difference what so ever on improving body composition.

Many bodybuilders follow the gylcemic index (GI) religously, and they shouldn't! Why so? Well, the GI is based on eating carbohydrates on an empty stomach without the addition of protein, lipids, fiber, water, etc. Therefore, it obviously has it's shortcomings and is not the be all end all choice for chosing our carbohydrate sources. Truth is, it's quite irrelevant when it comes to bodybuilding purposes. Let's take white potatoes for example. This food species is often avoided mainly because of it's high GI rank. Foolish. White potatoes are a very nutritious food and should be incorporated in a sound nutrition program. See, we're already spotting shortcomings challenging the elements and principles of the GI. But wait, there's more. The GI of that white potato can be drastically altered by combining it with the addition of protein, lipds, fiber, and other carbohydrates. In conclusion, the GI should not be followed religiously by bodybuilders and nutrient-density should be the main principle in one's nutrition plan, not the GI.

High GI foods create an insulin spike which will create more overall fat gain?

No. There is a constant rise and fall ALL DAY. It's not the actual peaks that matter, ITS THE RESULT AT THE END OF THE DAY, eating under maintenance = net lipolysis.

General body composition is about macronutrient and calorie control, NOT FOOD CHOICES.

i've had this argument tens of times. and people always blame genetics although unless you have some thyroid problem, i don't see why your genes would stop you from eating pizza and not having any hypertrophy occuring.

 

[xSup3r]

The calorie is a unit of energy. The way calories in foods are measured is by burning them and seeing how much calories it produces.

The body doesn't work like a furnace. It does not completely use up the energy available in the food, and it expends different amounts of energy digesting different kinds of food, how they're prepared, etc. Hence, calories from different sources have different effects on the body.

To think that the body treats all calories exactly the same is being overly simplistic. If that were the case, it would be the cheapest and most efficient to just drink oil for your daily caloric needs. Just a cup of it would meet your daily caloric requirements.

you forgot the part below where i said, "Your body does not recognize whether the food your eating is ‘clean’ or ‘junk’. It will only recognize food’s for it’s nutrients, such as proteins, fats or carbohydrates."

EDIT: most of you seem to slam IIFYM for no particular reason, why don't you give it a try?

 

[deeda90]

If u follow the IIFYM rule, u basically have to eat 80-90% "clean" food to fit into ur macronutrients and caloric limits. I have been using the IIFYM principle for my diet for a while. Somehow if I managed to hit my daily macros, I will be very close to the caloric limit I set for the day. But if let's say I eat fast food, I will have some difficulty balancing the macros and calorie equation.

 

[lee_tired_sheep]

Your body will however recognize the acrylamide from potatoes