[Breaking news]Nvidia shows off new realistic water effect: Position Based Fluids

FinalTidus

High Supremacy Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2004
Messages
35,099
Reaction score
1,177
Nvidia has unveiled its latest graphics animation enhancement in the shape of Position Based Fluids (PBF), a new realistic fluid simulation tool.

PBF builds on the long standing fluid calculation method know as Smooth Particle Hydrodynamics (SPH) and simplifies it to the point it can be used for real-time animation.

The challenge with existing implementations of the method is that to get sufficient realism requires enforcing incompressibility, and to do this requires having to either calculate at a high frequency (many moments in time) or high particle count, both of which are highly computationally intensive.

"SPH is sensitive to density fluctuations from neighborhood [sic] deficiencies, and enforcing incompressibility is costly due to the unstructured nature of the model...SPH algorithms
often become unstable if particles do not have enough neighbors for accurate density estimate"

"The typical solution is to try to avoid these situations by taking sufficiently small time steps, or by using sufficiently many particles, at the cost of increased computation"

The new Nvidia method, developed by Miles Macklin and Matthias Müller-Fischer, seeks to reduce the computational cost by "formulating and solving a set of positional constraints that enforce constant density". This method "allows similar incompressibility and convergence to modern smoothed particle hydro-dynamic (SPH) solvers, but inherits the stability of the geometric, position based dynamics method, allowing large time steps suitable for real-time applications. " In other words, it allows for a similar effect but using fewer particles and fewer time slices.

The PhysX paper on Position Based Fluids has been accepted for presentation at SIGGRAPH (Special Interest Group on GRAPHics and Interactive Techniques) 2013.

Furthermore, Miles Macklin has confirmed that since the SIGGRAPH presentation publication he has continued refined the rendering quality and has added “features like spray and foam”.


PBF follows closely on from Nvidia publishing two other real-world animation enhancements, in the shape of Faceworks and Waveworks. Aimed at reducing the computational cost of accurately depicting facial animations and ocean waves, the two methods can, along with PBF, run in real-time on a single GTX 680.

:):D:eek:=:p Its good to be still on the green camp.
 

betadyne

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2013
Messages
1,432
Reaction score
0
Not bad but if it requires Nvidia hardware to run it will be sucky. Should be open source like tressfx.
 

Humster

Arch-Supremacy Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2000
Messages
23,316
Reaction score
2,587
Thats why only ppl using apple products can use iOS. Alienating everyone else.

That why I never understand all those non open source products. You made something that only your stuff can use. If ppl decide not to use your hardware, you alienate them. You lose some market.
 

Rock-kun

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2007
Messages
991
Reaction score
1
The whole point is to make sure that customers have to buy their hardware if they want to leverage their tools and technology.

The competitor never contributed to its development so why should they be allowed to use Nvidia's technology and tools?
 

NVDefender

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2004
Messages
570
Reaction score
0
The whole point is to make sure that customers have to buy their hardware if they want to leverage their tools and technology.

The competitor never contributed to its development so why should they be allowed to use Nvidia's technology and tools?

AMD's TressFX runs on nVidia's hardware. Go figure.
 

haylui

High Supremacy Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2006
Messages
29,769
Reaction score
91
Nvidia has unveiled its latest graphics animation enhancement in the shape of Position Based Fluids (PBF), a new realistic fluid simulation tool.

PBF builds on the long standing fluid calculation method know as Smooth Particle Hydrodynamics (SPH) and simplifies it to the point it can be used for real-time animation.

The challenge with existing implementations of the method is that to get sufficient realism requires enforcing incompressibility, and to do this requires having to either calculate at a high frequency (many moments in time) or high particle count, both of which are highly computationally intensive.

"SPH is sensitive to density fluctuations from neighborhood [sic] deficiencies, and enforcing incompressibility is costly due to the unstructured nature of the model...SPH algorithms
often become unstable if particles do not have enough neighbors for accurate density estimate"

"The typical solution is to try to avoid these situations by taking sufficiently small time steps, or by using sufficiently many particles, at the cost of increased computation"

The new Nvidia method, developed by Miles Macklin and Matthias Müller-Fischer, seeks to reduce the computational cost by "formulating and solving a set of positional constraints that enforce constant density". This method "allows similar incompressibility and convergence to modern smoothed particle hydro-dynamic (SPH) solvers, but inherits the stability of the geometric, position based dynamics method, allowing large time steps suitable for real-time applications. " In other words, it allows for a similar effect but using fewer particles and fewer time slices.

The PhysX paper on Position Based Fluids has been accepted for presentation at SIGGRAPH (Special Interest Group on GRAPHics and Interactive Techniques) 2013.

Furthermore, Miles Macklin has confirmed that since the SIGGRAPH presentation publication he has continued refined the rendering quality and has added “features like spray and foam”.


PBF follows closely on from Nvidia publishing two other real-world animation enhancements, in the shape of Faceworks and Waveworks. Aimed at reducing the computational cost of accurately depicting facial animations and ocean waves, the two methods can, along with PBF, run in real-time on a single GTX 680.

:):D:eek:=:p Its good to be still on the green camp.

I've read this news 4 days ago...
 

Gaminator

Supremacy Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2004
Messages
8,555
Reaction score
655
The whole point is to make sure that customers have to buy their hardware if they want to leverage their tools and technology.

The competitor never contributed to its development so why should they be allowed to use Nvidia's technology and tools?
So, explain to me why AMD's TressFX, which it'd developed with the game dev for Tomb Raider, allows for NV card to run it as well? Why would they do that? You mean someone over at AMD HQ messed up by allowing it? Are you so closed minded, or simply an nVidiot, that you cannot see that open source is better than proprietary software? I suppose you think that Apple's proprietary software and hardware is the way to go....:s8:

Edit - Don't mean to rain on your parade, this is old news liao, I recall seeing it at guru3d or one of the foreign forums I usually go to...
 
Last edited:

darren_soh86

Master Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2002
Messages
2,884
Reaction score
4
this is just like computational fluid dynamics isn't it? breaks things down into super small particles and uses physics to calculate each particle's motion.
 

Humster

Arch-Supremacy Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2000
Messages
23,316
Reaction score
2,587
The whole point is to make sure that customers have to buy their hardware if they want to leverage their tools and technology.

The competitor never contributed to its development so why should they be allowed to use Nvidia's technology and tools?

And guess what? PS4 and the Xbox*insertrandomnumberhere* are using AMD hardware. Nivida will miss out on the oppounity to show off their "more state of the art* programing skillz.

Place yourself in the developer shoes. You are making a game across all major platforms. Will you want to spend time and money? When only 1 of your platform support this? Take Arkam City series for example. Only PC users get the cool looking physics thingy.

Why should developers choose close source when there are open source stuff out there that works on both Nivida and AMD cards. Well, unless the tools and software are sponsored by nivida and they get a cut of the profits per nivida card sold. Can't see a beeline here.
 

betadyne

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2013
Messages
1,432
Reaction score
0
I do agreed with the open source thing. See what happened to Nvidia's Physx? Very few games support it. I have owned several Nvidia cards (my current one is Nvidia). But, I have never experience Physx before.
 

betadyne

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2013
Messages
1,432
Reaction score
0
And guess what? PS4 and the Xbox*insertrandomnumberhere* are using AMD hardware. Nivida will miss out on the oppounity to show off their "more state of the art* programing skillz.

Place yourself in the developer shoes. You are making a game across all major platforms. Will you want to spend time and money? When only 1 of your platform support this? Take Arkam City series for example. Only PC users get the cool looking physics thingy.

Why should developers choose close source when there are open source stuff out there that works on both Nivida and AMD cards. Well, unless the tools and software are sponsored by nivida and they get a cut of the profits per nivida card sold. Can't see a beeline here.

Agreed. I feel Nvidia will lose out in the long run.
 

snipes14

Supremacy Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2001
Messages
6,127
Reaction score
0
So, explain to me why AMD's TressFX, which it'd developed with the game dev for Tomb Raider, allows for NV card to run it as well? Why would they do that? You mean someone over at AMD HQ messed up by allowing it? Are you so closed minded, or simply an nVidiot, that you cannot see that open source is better than proprietary software? I suppose you think that Apple's proprietary software and hardware is the way to go....:s8:

Edit - Don't mean to rain on your parade, this is old news liao, I recall seeing it at guru3d or one of the foreign forums I usually go to...

I don't think Rock-kun is making any value judgements here, just saying that it's in companies' nature to earn the most amount of money possible. Of course open source would be better, but nvidia is not in this for charity.
 

weap0nx

Master Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2000
Messages
4,398
Reaction score
1
this is just like computational fluid dynamics isn't it? breaks things down into super small particles and uses physics to calculate each particle's motion.

That's the gist of all physics engine, the trick is in optimization. Just like lighting, you can trace every single light ray reflection for as many bounces from the light source but that is practically impossible.

I think the demo looks great.
 

Gaminator

Supremacy Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2004
Messages
8,555
Reaction score
655
I don't think Rock-kun is making any value judgements here, just saying that it's in companies' nature to earn the most amount of money possible. Of course open source would be better, but nvidia is not in this for charity.
The tone he'd used suggest otherwise.....or, it seems that way to me. AMD isn't in it for charity either, yet TressFX works on both.

AA used to be 'free' for both, as long as the game got AA, both sides can run AA.....then, along came Batman AA which allows for AA only for NV cards. Sure, NV worked with dev for AA support in the U3 engine, but the same can be said for AMD's TressFX, yet AMD did not limit it to AMD cards.....I'm sure they could, but they chose not to. That's why I've always been ticked off with NV, they are the 'Apple' of vid card.
 
Important Forum Advisory Note
This forum is moderated by volunteer moderators who will react only to members' feedback on posts. Moderators are not employees or representatives of HWZ Forums. Forum members and moderators are responsible for their own posts. Please refer to our Community Guidelines and Standards and Terms and Conditions for more information.
Top