Singapore Government Securities

[Oo Fencer oO]

Does anyone here invest in SG government bonds?

I've looked at those offered by our banks, but it seems very cumbersome.

So far I have only found Fundsupermart that's offering retail investors like us to invest in small amounts (a few lots, not hundred lots).
The only I dun like about fundsupermart is that we have to set some cash with their "Cashfund", which incurs some expense charges every year.

Does anyone have other suggestions for other brokers or other methods of investing into SG government bonds?

 

[lzydata]

See the following for how to buy new or reopened SGS through the ATMs, or to buy or sell SGS on SGX. Unlike buying through the banks or Fundsupermart, CDP does not impose any admin charges. There will be some brokerage commissions chargeable for trading on SGX though.

Indv FAQ

 

[Oo Fencer oO]

ah thanks, but it seems I can only trade through brokers.

so far, on my POEMS account, the interface under "Fixed Income" only allows me to trade T-Bills. I can't seem to buy/sell long term bonds.

on my fundsupermart account, everything is available there. It's just the "cashfund" that I'm not comfortable with.

 

[chopra]

can apply thru banks for new tbill or Bond. but current rates are worse than fixed deposit. y bother.

 

[koxinga]

Does anyone here invest in SG government bonds?

I've looked at those offered by our banks, but it seems very cumbersome.

So far I have only found Fundsupermart that's offering retail investors like us to invest in small amounts (a few lots, not hundred lots).
The only I dun like about fundsupermart is that we have to set some cash with their "Cashfund", which incurs some expense charges every year.

Does anyone have other suggestions for other brokers or other methods of investing into SG government bonds?

here you go.

Bond Haven

that is not my blog nor am i related to the person. just a resource i came across.

 

[genie47]

ah thanks, but it seems I can only trade through brokers.

so far, on my POEMS account, the interface under "Fixed Income" only allows me to trade T-Bills. I can't seem to buy/sell long term bonds.

on my fundsupermart account, everything is available there. It's just the "cashfund" that I'm not comfortable with.

Hogwash lah! Go to Singapore Government Securities

There will will find some codes for the long term bonds. You just have to look harder. Look through every corner and every detail. That is the problem with investing in SG. There is a general conspiracy against you investing in affordable investments.

Under the SGS website go to Statistics and then Daily SGS Prices.

IMHO, anything longer than 5 years is considered a "long bond" because it is riskier. The 7 year is a neither here nor there situation for a long bond. I have no idea why our SGS issues it. So anything 10 years and longer is your safest bet for a long bond under SGS.

Now, the object of devotion for any SGS long bond fan is the 30 year long bond which was issued last year. Click 30-year.

You will see some numbers come out for its price recently.

Firstly, take note of the issue code which is NA12100N.

Now go to Singapore Exchange Ltd - The Asian Gateway | SGX

Hover your mouse over the Market Information tab. A new pulldown appears. Move over to SGS Bonds and click it. A table appears.

Match that code NA12100N to the corresponding SGX code for the SGS Bond. In this case it is PH1S.

Now here is your exercise, go find the SGX codes for the 10-year, 15-year and 20-year bonds and their last traded prices.

Learn from this.

Under POEMS or any broker. Trade stocks but search under stocks. For reasons which defies all logic, our SGS bonds comes under stocks because they can be traded as such. So search for PH1S for the 30-year bond, or key in other codes for the other SGS long bonds.

Under POEMs, PH1S appears as its SGS issued code of NA12100N 420401 10. This is under Bonds, Loans and Warrants under the Sectors pulldown.

 

[genie47]

can apply thru banks for new tbill or Bond. but current rates are worse than fixed deposit. y bother.

Our T-bills are crap. Highly un-accessible and costs so much more due to the trading costs under SGX. Waste of time. Go with an FD for anything less than 5 years because they are relatively risk-free for cash.

For bonds, long bonds are more risky and thus offer more risk-reward. Even so for the boring SGS bonds. The 30-year is now a discount bond compared to the just a few months ago. It was traded at 110 and now it is down to 94-95. Went as low as 92 in Jun during the bond sell off.

 

[genie47]

Fencer, I suggest you dig up the Permanent Portfolio thread to understand what long bonds do. They are not just for getting coupons. Since they are traded, you can profit from them depending on the economic situation. Long bonds are also very volatile. One moment they are wanted, the other moment they are discarded on a whim.

FYI, PH1S hit a high of 110 early this year. It was selling at 102 when it started off last year. Now it is down to 94-95.

 

[chopra]

Our T-bills are crap. Highly un-accessible and costs so much more due to the trading costs under SGX. Waste of time. Go with an FD for anything less than 5 years because they are relatively risk-free for cash.

For bonds, long bonds are more risky and thus offer more risk-reward. Even so for the boring SGS bonds. The 30-year is now a discount bond compared to the just a few months ago. It was traded at 110 and now it is down to 94-95. Went as low as 92 in Jun during the bond sell off.

it's the same everywhere.
still waiting for times like 2007, where tbill was 3.x%.
those were the days that i had last touched tbills.

anyway, i dun think its inaccessible leh. apply thru banks...

 

[lzydata]

Our T-bills are crap. Highly un-accessible and costs so much more due to the trading costs under SGX. Waste of time. Go with an FD for anything less than 5 years because they are relatively risk-free for cash.

On the contrary. New T-bills are issued every 2 weeks and individual investors can apply for them through DBS, POSB, UOB and OCBC ATMs. Not accessible enough?

It is only if you want to trade old issues or sell your T-bills before maturity that you have to go to SGX, which is a bad idea because of commissions and trading spreads. So long as you hold to maturity it is OK.

 

[Oo Fencer oO]

Hogwash lah! Go to Singapore Government Securities

......

Under POEMs, PH1S appears as its SGS issued code of NA12100N 420401 10. This is under Bonds, Loans and Warrants under the Sectors pulldown.

You win!
i'm going to do that now!

 

[Oo Fencer oO]

Fencer, I suggest you dig up the Permanent Portfolio thread to understand what long bonds do. They are not just for getting coupons. Since they are traded, you can profit from them depending on the economic situation. Long bonds are also very volatile. One moment they are wanted, the other moment they are discarded on a whim.

FYI, PH1S hit a high of 110 early this year. It was selling at 102 when it started off last year. Now it is down to 94-95.

Yes, it is exactly for this purpose that I started looking into long bonds, bullion gold and STI ETF

I assume you have your own permanent portfolio too?

 

[Epps_Sg]

One tip is to find and keep the long bond ticker in all your online brokerage's watchlist. that way you don't have to keep searching for it, as it may not be that easy to find.

 

[genie47]

On the contrary. New T-bills are issued every 2 weeks and individual investors can apply for them through DBS, POSB, UOB and OCBC ATMs. Not accessible enough?

It is only if you want to trade old issues or sell your T-bills before maturity that you have to go to SGX, which is a bad idea because of commissions and trading spreads. So long as you hold to maturity it is OK.

Its the things you have to go through just to apply for them compared to FDs. T-bills from SGX? I'm not crazy to do that. OK for bonds but T-bills? The yield is so low or even at its height in 2007 you want to maximize by reducing cost at any given chance.

Just applying for a 24mth FD every quarter with 2-5k can setup emergency funds up to 10-50k is much easier.

 

[genie47]

it's the same everywhere.
still waiting for times like 2007, where tbill was 3.x%.
those were the days that i had last touched tbills.

anyway, i dun think its inaccessible leh. apply thru banks...

I mean compared to FDs which are still safe and if looking at 24mth FDs, pretty much reasonable at 1.2% yield now. Split 10 or 50k to be divided to 2-5k and laddered every quarter, after 2 years, you got a maturing FD every quarter.

 

[genie47]

Yes, it is exactly for this purpose that I started looking into long bonds, bullion gold and STI ETF

I assume you have your own permanent portfolio too?

Not all my money is in PP. There is of course another nice portfolio for me to take a view of things.

 

[Oo Fencer oO]

Not all my money is in PP. There is of course another nice portfolio for me to take a view of things.

oh? as in another type of portfolio combination? anyway I can research on it?

How has your PP performed so far?

I've saved the bonds / STI ETF under my POEMS watchlist.
Today just bought up the PP portion of STI ETF.
Tomorrow will whack the bonds!

Are the coupon payments credited directly into your bank account? Similar to dividend payouts?

 

[Epps_Sg]

oh? as in another type of portfolio combination? anyway I can research on it?

How has your PP performed so far?

I've saved the bonds / STI ETF under my POEMS watchlist.
Today just bought up the PP portion of STI ETF.
Tomorrow will whack the bonds!

Are the coupon payments credited directly into your bank account? Similar to dividend payouts?

Bond coupons credits directly into bank account. Hope you have reasonable expectations of PP - its a portfolio designed to be held for long term profits and not for quick profits. Cheers

 

[homer123]

Does anyone here know what is the expense of buying SGS bond from fundsupermart and brokerage account?

 

[Epps_Sg]

Does anyone here know what is the expense of buying SGS bond from fundsupermart and brokerage account?

For brokerage, fee for buying SGS bond is same as fees for buying stocks. I don't know if it is possible to buy SGS directly in Fundsupermart, as SGS bonds need to be held in CDP.