Buying with cpf

[fusion3]

Chill everybody...this is a good place for us to share our experience and learn from others.

But is there anyone that is in the same situation as me? Maybe not in Japanland but in someother stocks? Cannot be i am the only suay guy around right?

 

[simon_84]

well if i ever use my cpf to invest, perhaps i will just buy singpost...

 

[lzydata]

The system was there to screw people from the beginning, because there is no opt out. Its opt in by mandate.

...

To me, the formation of CPF by not allowing people to opt out and be given 2.5% interest by "force" is a screw up from the start.

OK there is where I have to step in.

So do you think it is better for everyone if there is no CPF? If everyone saves whatever they want and invest however they want?

I think the answer is obvious. You are in a position to complain about it because you are doing quite well for yourself and you believe you will do even better if there were no CPF.

But I do not think we can say that for most people. Even the rare person who is disciplined enough to save, knowledgeable enough to invest and plays all his cards correctly may be stricken by some misfortune like a medical crisis or fraud. And then what? "You die your business"?

CPF is a safety net and a mechanism to force people to save. The government's role is to mandate employer contributions and provide guaranteed safe assets and generous interest. For many (most?) people, CPF is the only way they will retire, because they have nothing else. The measure of its success is that a small minority who do not need their CPF complains about it holding them back, while the vast majority quietly reap its benefits.

If there are really so many investment mavens out there, they should be taking full advantage of CPFIS and making a killing. But that is not the case. Many people do not even break even, let alone reach the hurdle rate of 2.5%. Why? Is it because the CPF Board is craftily excluding the really good investments? If the Japanland example is worth anything, it shows that the opposite is true! People are no good at investing. No offence, TS.

 

[Mecisteus]

I think you don't get it, mr Paul.

The system was there to screw people from the beginning, because there is no opt out. Its opt in by mandate.

Its not about having backbone or no backbone. Maybe you think that by not talking about the system means you have a bit more backbone than others.

And if u read what i wrote, ( provided u can read clearly in the 1st place ) my peeve was on the beginning which meant the formation of CPF.

Your understanding of the beginning means allowing people to buy stocks using CPF.

To me, the formation of CPF by not allowing people to opt out and be given 2.5% interest by "force" is a screw up from the start.

By being in this forum longer does not put you in a position to tell others whether they have or do not have backbone. If you really want to dish such advices, do it to your children in real life. Don't do it on an Internet forum and think of others as small kids.

If you wish to be a nanny, do it to your kids, no one bothers.

firstly, im not sure why you are so uptight. i dont think Paul remarks are targeting at you.

secondly and personally, i dont see anything wrong with the remarks. he is reflecting the true behavior of our people. this is an adult forum, so we should be able to take such constructive criticisms.

thirdly, this thread is about "investing stocks with cpf". it is nothing to do with the beginning and formation of the cpf system that you have been bragging about. we are mandated by law to contribute to cpf. so everyone is on the same boat and we are on the same level of playing field. but about investing with cpf, everyone is given the option. you have the choice and i think its clear from past statistics, you are better off not to touch the cpf.

 

[nauhchop]

OK there is where I have to step in.

So do you think it is better for everyone if there is no CPF? If everyone saves whatever they want and invest however they want?

I think the answer is obvious. You are in a position to complain about it because you are doing quite well for yourself and you believe you will do even better if there were no CPF.

But I do not think we can say that for most people. Even the rare person who is disciplined enough to save, knowledgeable enough to invest and plays all his cards correctly may be stricken by some misfortune like a medical crisis or fraud. And then what? "You die your business"?

Everyone are entitled to their opinion. Some people can agree that cpf is good, while some can say cpf is no good. Respect opinions.

But to use the "backbone" to swipe back at those who don't agree on the system, i would still say leave such comments to people they know in real life.

If your opinions are different from mine, i would not use ethics, morals, backbone to put u down, because i don't know u in real life.

However, it is also not the 1st time Paul puts people down in the forum with his sarcastic tone. Maybe it looks as though he has been here longer based on his join date, and the couple of times he did that, no one said anything.

 

[harky]

tot if the company close the $$ also gone.. than y still need to use cash to pay seen already lost liao?

 

[Paul Lee]

Everyone are entitled to their opinion. Some people can agree that cpf is good, while some can say cpf is no good. Respect opinions.

But to use the "backbone" to swipe back at those who don't agree on the system, i would still say leave such comments to people they know in real life.

If your opinions are different from mine, i would not use ethics, morals, backbone to put u down, because i don't know u in real life.

However, it is also not the 1st time Paul puts people down in the forum with his sarcastic tone. Maybe it looks as though he has been here longer based on his join date, and the couple of times he did that, no one said anything.

OK. If you wanna talk about respect each other opinions, we can do that.

When I use the word 'backbone' it was not meant to be a snipe or a swipe back on people (or more specifically you) for not agreeing with your opinion. It was used to encourage responsibility and ownership of our investment decision and not to blame the system. Fair enough?

You want to talk about being respectful? I think by suggesting that I should only dish out advises to small kids, think of others as small kids or nanny my own kids. That's not very respectful.

Yes. I'm being in the forum a long time. And of cos seniority in this forum (and any other forums) does not entails one to any special privilege. But I think I have been in this forum long enough and being more than helpful on numerous occasions to let fellow HWZers judge my conduct on this forum.

And I dun think I was 'putting you down' in the first place so I dun know why you took offence to my comments.

And with that I have said all I want to say and have no comments on the matter. [CLOSED]

 

[Carnage]

The biggest endorsement of CPF comes from foreigners. They praise our country's CPF to high heaven and diss their own pension scheme.

Seems like only Singaporeans have a beef with our superannuation scheme.

 

[fusion3]

tot if the company close the $$ also gone.. than y still need to use cash to pay seen already lost liao?

This is the email from CPF,

I have checked with DBS bank and understand that they have not received the
certificate. Typically in a delisting process, shareholders using cash
often receive the certificates earlier than agent banks. The certificates
held by agent banks will be under the banks' names. However, agent banks
maintain records of your investments. Regardless whether the company is
listed or not, you are still entitled to the shares.

DBS bank charges quarterly service charge for each share counter and we
are unable to write off your investments on this company should you
continue to hold onto the shares.

Alternatively, you may wish to repurchase your shares from your CPF
Investment Account using your own cash. Repurchase is considered as one of
the exceptional processing and has to be manually handled by the agent
banks. We have disallowed exceptional processing (since 15 Mar 2000) so as
to improve the overall efficiency of the CPFIS operations as such
processing require extra time, cost, effort and cause settlement delays.
This was announced on 25 January 2000 via a Press Release. We consider
approval on a case-by-case basis, especially if the repurchase is in-line
with CPFB’s objective of enabling members to save more CPF monies for their
retirement. The repurchase should also not result in any leakage of
members’ CPF savings. Please note that you will need to pay CPF
administrative fee, CDP transfer and bank charges in addition to the cost
of your investments in doing so. Please let me know if you wish to proceed
to repurchase your shares and I'll email you the steps required to do so.

 

[harky]

huh

piang. use cpf buy lost liao still need to topup cash to back like that like double purchase the shares na.

have u try to ask other bank? not sure they are doing to same? but i think is same ba.

if there is only one option hw ah? got try to ask ur broker?? but if not choice try what bliss-po say lor.. cannot be topup back the $$ ba!!.

This is the email from CPF,

I have checked with DBS bank and understand that they have not received the
certificate. Typically in a delisting process, shareholders using cash
often receive the certificates earlier than agent banks. The certificates
held by agent banks will be under the banks' names. However, agent banks
maintain records of your investments. Regardless whether the company is
listed or not, you are still entitled to the shares.

DBS bank charges quarterly service charge for each share counter and we
are unable to write off your investments on this company should you
continue to hold onto the shares.

Alternatively, you may wish to repurchase your shares from your CPF
Investment Account using your own cash. Repurchase is considered as one of
the exceptional processing and has to be manually handled by the agent
banks. We have disallowed exceptional processing (since 15 Mar 2000) so as
to improve the overall efficiency of the CPFIS operations as such
processing require extra time, cost, effort and cause settlement delays.
This was announced on 25 January 2000 via a Press Release. We consider
approval on a case-by-case basis, especially if the repurchase is in-line
with CPFB’s objective of enabling members to save more CPF monies for their
retirement. The repurchase should also not result in any leakage of
members’ CPF savings. Please note that you will need to pay CPF
administrative fee, CDP transfer and bank charges in addition to the cost
of your investments in doing so. Please let me know if you wish to proceed
to repurchase your shares and I'll email you the steps required to do so.

 

[cuttlefish]

CPF seems tailormade for blue chips only

 

[Mecisteus]

huh

piang. use cpf buy lost liao still need to topup cash to back like that like double purchase the shares na.

have u try to ask other bank? not sure they are doing to same? but i think is same ba.

if there is only one option hw ah? got try to ask ur broker?? but if not choice try what bliss-po say lor.. cannot be topup back the $$ ba!!.

nolah it is not considered double purchase.

if i am not wrong, the cash money will be use to top up back his CPF account. in other words, the loss is transferred from CPF to Cash account.

 

[lzydata]

The repurchase should also not result in any leakage of members’ CPF savings.

Off-topic, but so interesting that the CPF Board also considers the possibility that TS is part of one of those scams to prematurely withdraw CPF savings.

I think the idea is basically: A and B pick some obscure penny stock and trade with it. A uses CPFIS funds to buy the stock from B at some high price. Thereafter the price collapses and A is holding worthless stock. Meanwhile B gets the money that has been prematurely withdrawn from A's CPF account. The two arrange beforehand how to divide the spoils.

Far-fetched? Apparently it has happened before. CPF has some articles on this in their FAQ

 

[Mecisteus]

Off-topic, but so interesting that the CPF Board also considers the possibility that TS is part of one of those scams to prematurely withdraw CPF savings.

I think the idea is basically: A and B pick some obscure penny stock and trade with it. A uses CPFIS funds to buy the stock from B at some high price. Thereafter the price collapses and A is holding worthless stock. Meanwhile B gets the money that has been prematurely withdrawn from A's CPF account. The two arrange beforehand how to divide the spoils.

Far-fetched? Apparently it has happened before. CPF has some articles on this in their FAQ

i didnt manage to read the article because i cant find it now. so are both of them charged by MAS for market manipulation?

A and B must have made a married deal at a very very high price in order to minimise the % "loss". the unusual high price must have triggered an alarm to the authorities.

assuming the market price of this obscure penny stock (S) is trading at 10 cents.

A must find some B who is willing to sell to him some S shares at the smallest possible premium above 10 cents. ie A makes an agreement to buy from B at 15 cents.

But the married trade is done at 40 cents. A pays to B at 40 cents using CPF.

B receives 40 cents in cash but pays back to A at 35 cents because 15 cents was the pre-agreed price to trade.

so effectively, A loses 15 cents out of his 40 cents of CPF. in order to minimise the % loss, the trade must be done at a very very high price or at the smallest possible premium.

 

[lzydata]

The website is under preventive maintenance now till Monday, 11 November 2013, 8am.

We apologise for any inconvenience caused.

This is the CPF website now. Damn hackers.

Anyway, the reason Messrs A and B got into such a deal was that A owed B a lot of money. So I suppose A felt he had no choice. But there was more than one such case and I might be mixing up the details.

 

[fusion3]

Off-topic, but so interesting that the CPF Board also considers the possibility that TS is part of one of those scams to prematurely withdraw CPF savings.

I think the idea is basically: A and B pick some obscure penny stock and trade with it. A uses CPFIS funds to buy the stock from B at some high price. Thereafter the price collapses and A is holding worthless stock. Meanwhile B gets the money that has been prematurely withdrawn from A's CPF account. The two arrange beforehand how to divide the spoils.

Far-fetched? Apparently it has happened before. CPF has some articles on this in their FAQ

wah biang, this is totally out of my league man. I must really thanks CPF board if they really think i doing this

 

[noobishyang]

This is the email from CPF,

I have checked with DBS bank and understand that they have not received the
certificate. Typically in a delisting process, shareholders using cash
often receive the certificates earlier than agent banks. The certificates
held by agent banks will be under the banks' names. However, agent banks
maintain records of your investments. Regardless whether the company is
listed or not, you are still entitled to the shares.

DBS bank charges quarterly service charge for each share counter and we
are unable to write off your investments on this company should you
continue to hold onto the shares.

Alternatively, you may wish to repurchase your shares from your CPF
Investment Account using your own cash. Repurchase is considered as one of
the exceptional processing and has to be manually handled by the agent
banks. We have disallowed exceptional processing (since 15 Mar 2000) so as
to improve the overall efficiency of the CPFIS operations as such
processing require extra time, cost, effort and cause settlement delays.
This was announced on 25 January 2000 via a Press Release. We consider
approval on a case-by-case basis, especially if the repurchase is in-line
with CPFB’s objective of enabling members to save more CPF monies for their
retirement. The repurchase should also not result in any leakage of
members’ CPF savings. Please note that you will need to pay CPF
administrative fee, CDP transfer and bank charges in addition to the cost
of your investments in doing so. Please let me know if you wish to proceed
to repurchase your shares and I'll email you the steps required to do so.

so you are still "holding" on to one counter, every quarter you are paying $5.35 (inc. gst), one year pay $21.40, 50 years you pay $1070. If you include an annual inflation rate of 2.5% a year, after 50 years, you would have paid $2086.17.

so if you have $18000 cash right now, you might as well go buy 10 lots of CDL HTrust @ $1.655, assume they pay $110 per lot each year, one year you would have collected $1100, 2 years $2200, 5 years $5500, and you don't even need to utilize the entire $18k.

you put the $18000 back to cpf, earn that miserable 2.5%, $450 a year? think about it.

 

[oozzzzzz0]

Chill everybody...this is a good place for us to share our experience and learn from others.

But is there anyone that is in the same situation as me? Maybe not in Japanland but in someother stocks? Cannot be i am the only suay guy around right?

dun worry, mi too... stuck with Jurong Tech for bery long time, and donating to DBS since then...

 

[luei74]

I'm also stucked with jepunland and berlianlaju, fortunately I'm using cash $$ to purchase instead of cpf, lesson learnt on penny stocks, since then slowly diverted diverted into dividends share.

With cpf $$ for investment, rather invested into those blue chip stocks for the Power of Dividends!!