China's stock market plunge: how did it happen?

[aang1971]

The crisis show that China is not ready for financial dominance, at least in the immediate future.

The signs that China stocks exchange are in a massive bubble for months already.

It will probably mean someone is blowing and inflating the bubble.

This is aided by retail investors ignorant of risks and volatility of the stocks systems, trying to make big bucks.

When it peaked, just cash out and sell short the bubble will burst. Make the money and run.

I thought TVB was hinting at this when they rebroadcast the Ding Hai show...Greed of Man...still despite being widely watched, the Chinese failed to learn.

So it is easy for external influence to go in and inflate the bubble and then cash out.

This script has been written and filmed so many time...and yet the PRC investors fell for it.

What is worrying in my opinion is either the PRC government is not aware of this, or they are letting this happen....afterall, they are single biggest owner of foreign currencies.

Maybe they think they can manage the social anxiety...since Chinese are prompt to raise heckles, but not bloody revolution.

On the other hand, they can cut some of the greedy private enterprises to a more manageable level.

Maybe that is a bigger political and social risk to CCCP government and their eventual road to democracy

The BIG BUSINESS.

US political system is already manipulated by Big Business. No president of US is not obligated to Big Business.

So letting out some blood and cutting them down may be the intent here.

 

[OngHuatHuat]

Anyone think that the next big thing is the China Property burst?

Mounting piles of unsold property inventory and rising debt loads. Policy makers face a challenge to ensure China is not heading into a new period of sliding prices and a spiral of debt deflation.

Meaning the oversupply situation is getting worse.

2-3 线城市maybe, but for 1 线城市like Shanghai, Shenzhen, Beijing and Guangzhou, the home prices hold up relatively well during the downturn and now all rising up Liao.

深圳一房主因卖房后房价暴涨百万，竟违约要收回房子。这种做法到底合不合法？记者从南京一些法院了解到，在房屋买卖纠纷中不乏此类案例，但只要是双方事前经过平等协商，自愿签订合同，没有欺诈胁迫或违反社会公序良俗的情况，也没有法定的解除合同的情形存在，无论房价涨跌，买卖双方都应履行合同。
扬子晚报全媒体记者 罗双江
南京判例
案例1： 房子涨价反悔被判履行合同
2013年2月27日，李小丁与侯余力、某房产中介签订《房地产买卖中介合同》，约定侯余力将其玄武区某处房屋出售给李小丁，售价78万元。2013年9月15日前，李小丁与侯余力配合某房产中介办理申请房屋过户手续，同时李小丁支付房屋首付款45万元进行资金监管，房屋过户至李小丁名下当日，李小丁再向侯余力支付房款26万元。合同签订当日，李小丁按照约定向侯余力支付了5万元定金，向某房产中介支付了佣金和代办费1万元。但之后，侯余力便拒绝配合李小丁办理房屋过户、房屋交付等事宜，李小丁遂将侯余力告到南京玄武法院。
法庭上，李小丁称，合同签订后，相关地段房屋价格上涨，侯余力见状遂多次要求提高售房价格，但自己坚决不同意，请求法院判令侯余力将房屋两证过户给自己，并结清该房屋水电煤气等费用后，将房屋交付给自己，同时，判令某房产中介配合侯余力办理两证及过户、交付事宜。
但是，侯余力并不认可提高房价一说，他称，自己反悔是因为家里人不知道他要卖房，现在其家人不同意他卖房子，他愿意双倍向李小丁返还定金。而某房产中介则认为，侯余力反悔，他们作为中介方无法左右。只要双方愿意继续履行合同，他们愿意配合。那么，侯余力说的是真话吗？对此，李小丁申请某房产中介经纪人王某某出庭作证，证实侯余力与李小丁签订房屋买卖合同事宜时的售房定金系其与妻子商量后确定。同时，李小丁还出具了相关录音，证实了双方的交易经过。
玄武法院审理后认为，三方订立的合同系当事人真实自愿协商一致的结果，不违反法律、行政法规的强制性规定，对原被告三方都具有法律约束力，侯余力应当按照约定履行义务，不得擅自解除合同。依据我国《合同法》相关规定，判决侯余力在判决书生效后15日内，协助李小丁将房屋两证过户至李小丁名下，并判令某房产中介协助侯余力履行上述义务。
案例2： 涨价后不愿卖房赔了22万违约金
2013年3月，束君禾与乐妮、某中介公司签订《房地产买卖中介合同》，约定由束君禾购买乐妮名下位于栖霞区某小区房屋，房款总价为225万元。三方约定，违约金按标的额10%计算，即22.5万元。补充协议第一条为定金5万元，首付款为80万元，贷款金额为135万元，留5万元在房屋交付时自行交割。同时，三方又网签了1份《南京市存量房交易合同》。
此后，束君禾按约支付了定金5万元及首付款80万元，后由于乐妮不愿再出售房屋，双方遂开始交涉解除合同事宜。束君禾要求乐妮根据买卖合同，应当支付违约金22.5万元。之后，乐妮陆续返还了束君禾给付的首付款，又另行支付了9万元，剩下的13.5万元，由乐妮的丈夫梁云纬于2013年10月22日出具欠条，双方解除了网签的房屋买卖合同。欠条到期后，乐妮夫妇一直没有还款，束君禾遂将他们告上法庭，要求两人归还。
法庭上，束君禾称，乐妮之所以不愿履行房屋买卖合同，是由于房价上涨，要不是乐妮愿意支付违约金，自己是一定会要她履行合同的。但是，乐妮两口子言而无信，说好愿意付违约金，但到期后却不付余款，请求法院判令乐妮两口子支付余款及逾期利息。对此，乐妮辩称，自己在解除合同时已经按约支付了束君禾5万元的定金以及4万元的中介费作为赔偿。束君禾再行起诉被告没有事实和法律依据。至于梁云纬向束君禾出具的欠条，其真实性无法确认，且与自己无关，因为自己与梁云纬已经离婚了。

 

[OngHuatHuat]

Mind sharing some of the counters you are looking at?
Which place do you source HK stocks news/discussion/analysis?

That side quite many stock discussion forum d, but your Chinese must be quite good, coz the terms they use, like 平仓，爆仓，满仓，清仓etc not so common for us. And a lot of people over there use margin account leverage to the max d. That's why you see when the stock market plunge, a lot of Margin call will kick in, force selling occurs and cannot stop one.

Some of them borrow to the max, leverage 10 x then even ask relatives and friends to buy together....
You won't see commit suicide news here coz they block all the stock suicide news to prevent a social melt down.

 

[ValueInvestor]

Anyone think that the next big thing is the China Property burst?

Mounting piles of unsold property inventory and rising debt loads. Policy makers face a challenge to ensure China is not heading into a new period of sliding prices and a spiral of debt deflation.

Meaning the oversupply situation is getting worse.

China now already crashing

down over 30% le........

bear market for sure

 

[ValueInvestor]

Hope Chinese market plunge further down to at least 2500 level.

Currently holding some h shares with super huge 30++ paper loss, but damage is limited due to limited exposure.

Some h shares are good with great growth potential, present plunge posts opportunity to get it cheap......

Plunge further please.........

yeah hope it drops further

i wanna whack 2828, a h-shares index

 

[ValueInvestor]

Mind sharing some of the counters you are looking at?
Which place do you source HK stocks news/discussion/analysis?

for me, i dunno how to see HK individual stocks... as the news all in chinese

I usually play ETFS... which is very liquid and helps to diversify as I do not put more than 10% of my portfolio in HK/china

http://www.aastocks.com/en/Default.aspx

this site is not bad, u can take a look as its in english

 

[Wood41]

For sure China stock markets kill more people than Macau casinos .

 

[ValueInvestor]

The crisis show that China is not ready for financial dominance, at least in the immediate future.

The signs that China stocks exchange are in a massive bubble for months already.

It will probably mean someone is blowing and inflating the bubble.

This is aided by retail investors ignorant of risks and volatility of the stocks systems, trying to make big bucks.

When it peaked, just cash out and sell short the bubble will burst. Make the money and run.

I thought TVB was hinting at this when they rebroadcast the Ding Hai show...Greed of Man...still despite being widely watched, the Chinese failed to learn.

So it is easy for external influence to go in and inflate the bubble and then cash out.

This script has been written and filmed so many time...and yet the PRC investors fell for it.

What is worrying in my opinion is either the PRC government is not aware of this, or they are letting this happen....afterall, they are single biggest owner of foreign currencies.

Maybe they think they can manage the social anxiety...since Chinese are prompt to raise heckles, but not bloody revolution.

On the other hand, they can cut some of the greedy private enterprises to a more manageable level.

Maybe that is a bigger political and social risk to CCCP government and their eventual road to democracy

The BIG BUSINESS.

US political system is already manipulated by Big Business. No president of US is not obligated to Big Business.

So letting out some blood and cutting them down may be the intent here.

Humans never learn from history one, they are just too greedy. Now china down over 30% from peak riao, will only lead to more margin calls and deleveraging

 

[ValueInvestor]

For sure China stock markets kill more people than Macau casinos .

Ya lor, for sure

Casino at least for non vip gambler, u bring how much cash just lose whatever u have

But for china stock market, many borrowed over 3 times their assets... So they likely to lose more than what they had in the first place, so tragic sia

However, this crisis can be an opportunity

I now trying to borrow hkd to buy the index cheaply

 

[aang1971]

Humans never learn from history one, they are just too greedy. Now china down over 30% from peak riao, will only lead to more margin calls and deleveraging

in classic economy what role do people like buffet or peter lim plays? they do not earn from the fruits of their physical labour

but they are influential and often hidden hand in politics

maybe prc government here is the real hidden hand, taking a calculated risk to cut down the hedge fund own by individuals which may be a future risk to political instability'

 

[OngHuatHuat]

yeah hope it drops further

i wanna whack 2828, a h-shares index

The 2828 I think they purposely reserve one....

You should whack 2828 when the index is 2828 at shanghai

 

[Wood41]

The news before this crash was MILLIONs of China newbies opening new stock accounts everyday was bad omen .....
Newspaper photos showing China old folks so close to the monitors .....

It is like our wet market fish mongers having TV blinking SGX
teletext years ago ... recommending stocks . Fish selling was
part time !

 

[ValueInvestor]

The news before this crash was MILLIONs of China newbies opening new stock accounts everyday was bad omen .....
Newspaper photos showing China old folks so close to the monitors .....

It is like our wet market fish mongers having TV blinking SGX
teletext years ago ... recommending stocks . Fish selling was
part time !

Few months back university students graduate liao all dont want to find job, just borrow $$ and whack market to become millionaires... Now dunno they still millionaires or not lol

 

[starfish.starfish]

Few months back university students graduate liao all dont want to find job, just borrow $$ and whack market to become millionaires... Now dunno they still millionaires or not lol

Won't touch China stocks with a 10 foot pole.
Learnt lesson in 2008

 

[ValueInvestor]

Won't touch China stocks with a 10 foot pole.
Learnt lesson in 2008

What happened to u in 2008?

 

[Wood41]

Few months back university students graduate liao all dont want to find job, just borrow $$ and whack market to become millionaires... Now dunno they still millionaires or not lol

There was a NUS student who did that years ago & ended .... he was in the news about his debt & loss.

 

[starfish.starfish]

What happened to u in 2008?

COSCO cost me a 2nd hand car.

 

[Wood41]

Here it goes.......

BEIJING: China Securities Finance Corp, the state-backed margin finance company, said on Wednesday that it has ample liquidity to ensure market stability.

The company has various fund-raising channels, such as issuance of short-term bills, bonds and short-term loans, it said in a statement posted on the official Weibo channel of the securities regulator.

 

[Perisher]

Still waiting for china fear to really kick in.

 

[bobbytkc]

Here it goes.......

BEIJING: China Securities Finance Corp, the state-backed margin finance company, said on Wednesday that it has ample liquidity to ensure market stability.

The company has various fund-raising channels, such as issuance of short-term bills, bonds and short-term loans, it said in a statement posted on the official Weibo channel of the securities regulator.

LOL. Like people will care if you have liquidity. The fact is that the companies listed on SSE are not work as much as the prices dictate. No amount of easily available monies will change that.