Manchester United - Theatre of Dreams - - Part 22

[chengsun]

Ever since the famous NGP in this thread, I've long learnt the real meaning of the Chinese saying "one type of rice feeds a thousand types of people".
To me, fun and cute nicknames are ok (e.g. Shrek) but not others that carry a derogatory undertone. But everyone's standards are different. But basic requirement is spelling someone's name correct. I think that is a good habit to develop actually.

To add on, Memphis has openly asked journalists refer him as Memphis rather than his last name. Let's respect him as a player of our beloved club, refer him as Memphis from now on.

 

[Asakura]

Benitez disallowed a training goal..
and........boom!

can the waiter handle big ego?

 

[DanielTng]

Gentlemen,

I hid the advise of you guys and took a 4 hour break and returned to my desk to do some works for the time which I took to watch today's game and cool my head.

My apologies for the rakus caused and the embarassments brought about to this thread for the bout.

I am not returning to the subject that as per the advise of you guys to let matters rest.

However, I have read the post of many and would like to emphasize that when one comes into the open forum to post his views or rant or shout out their anger, in as long as it is not directed to any forumner in particular and not hurting anyone, he is free to express himself.

One come into the forum as an individual and is free to express and is not here to be liked or disliked.

There is no necessity on one reading the others post if one feel that his/her postings are not worthy of one's reading. Feel free.

One can have their own views, rants and venting of anger and release his loads of miseries - feel free. In as long as it is not directed to any of the forumners here.

There is no need for anybody to comment on another's posting if he doesn't like it. One can choose to ignore or put matters right and in its perspective and that is about it.

I read from the medias and other internet postings and I gather the infos and do my post. I have my own views and interpretations of things. It can be right, it can be wrong. Ignore me if I post nonsense for I would accord you the same respect. Correct me and make me wiser if you bother. If not no offense.

To those that felt that we can thread and be friends, I welcome you warm-heartedly and to those that felt that my posts made me an AH, no offense, just ignore me or treat me as siao and leave me alone is your prerogative.

As mentioned, I am not digging into the matter and I shall continue to post on the subjects relevant to this thread.

My SINCERE APOLOGIES FOR THE EMBARASSMENTS BROUGHT ABOUT FROM THE RAKUS.

 

[chengsun]

My thoughts, in red

My takeaways from the two pre-season games thus far (sorry if it's a jumble of random thoughts):

- LVG appears to be toying with the idea of a two pivot midfield and a possible switch to a 4-2-3-1 system. I would rather see the term build off their year's experience with 4-3-3 than moving on to something new.
Essentially, 433 and 4231, it is just the difference of 1 top or 2 tops in the midfield triangle. The players seem like still do not know running into space, providing option for teammates to pass, creating space for teammates. That is the main problem to me, not the formation.

- Depay is clearly being played centrally in what appears to be the position of a #10. I don't get it. Right now, he brings most to the team as a winger with 20 goal potential. Let him use his pace to take on fullbacks, give the team width and pace on both flanks. Give Mata the #10 position since he's got more guile/vision and it's where his lack of raw speed isn't a handicap.
Memphis played as forward before. Young, based on his performance last season, deserves a place this season. If, moving Mata to middle, Memphis to left, then Young to right?

- The team would be better off WITH Di Maria. He offers a dimension that cannot be replaced or replicated via current personnel or transfers. When on form he's an elite high work rate attacker with world class speed that's able to operate from a deeper midfield position (as well as #10/wide). Not many of those out there that are available.
Agree

- United needs a more effective high press especially since they are running such a high line. Ineffective pressing + high line is a recipe for disaster and something that led to quite a few points being dropped last season.
Something that surprises me as well. They did not seem to give pressure much to get back the possession.

- Carrington needs to be retooled. Better system, better coaches, better scouting, better players, whatever, they're just not where they should be. Real top clubs with history and pedigree MUST have a program for developing top talent. Barca, Real, Bayern all have world class academies that roll out world class talent in numbers, United arguably can only point to their class of '94 (and maybe Pogba).
No comment

 

[chengsun]

Romero has agreed to join Manchester United on a 3 year deal & will earn €1.8m per year after tax. [Gazzetta dello Sport]

Around 60k a week before tax? Doesn't look like a pay scale for starter......

 

[Ottoke]

UCL draw date not so fast right?

Sent from Jayley Woo's heart using GAGT

 

[AceyourMaths]

Actually okay la LVG.

Memphis is a great buy it seems. And if he can offload injury-prone Di Maria and then buy a top striker to replace RVP with the money, I feel LVG would have done rather well this transfer season.

 

[DanielTng]

My takeaways from the two pre-season games thus far (sorry if it's a jumble of random thoughts):

- LVG appears to be toying with the idea of a two pivot midfield and a possible switch to a 4-2-3-1 system. I would rather see the term build off their year's experience with 4-3-3 than moving on to something new.
My feeling is that it is due to the good form of Young which he decide not to bench and he therefore moved Memphis to play as the second striker in what I see a 4411 formation. A set-up which look something like this ( I may be wrong, I am no expert )

SAM JOHNSTONE
DARMAIN JONES BLIND SHAW
MATA CARRICK SCHNEIDERLIN YOUNG
MEMPHIS
ROONEY
​

- Depay is clearly being played centrally in what appears to be the position of a #10. I don't get it. Right now, he brings most to the team as a winger with 20 goal potential. Let him use his pace to take on fullbacks, give the team width and pace on both flanks. Give Mata the #10 position since he's got more guile/vision and it's where his lack of raw speed isn't a handicap.
Personally, I would prefer he plays with two wingers with Memphis being where he is best at. It would be great if Di Maria is in the squad and playing the right wing. His mention of another striker is what he viewed as being necessary in his one one approach ( Rooney upfront with another striker backing him up ), but with Memphis deployed there, he is beginning to feel that there is no more necessity and with Di Maria leaving, he has not a right flying winger. He doesn't want to fill Memphis on the right as Memphis plays in the same position as Young on the left ( his best position). So, he came up with his make shift backup striker in Memphis and avoid Mata on the wing. So goes the pressing playing formation that you have mentioned. His is presently short of balance to play a sound two wingers pressing formation


- The team would be better off WITH Di Maria. He offers a dimension that cannot be replaced or replicated via current personnel or transfers. When on form he's an elite high work rate attacker with world class speed that's able to operate from a deeper midfield position (as well as #10/wide). Not many of those out there that are available.
My view is that he should keep Di Maria and proceed to buy a second striker and play his 4231 if he pleases and in the event that the right wing falling short as we have only ADM while we have Young and Memphis to rotate on the left, he can then resort into his 4411 without losing depth and sting in the attack. With 2 sets of players each playing 45 minutes in the last two games, he can afford to play the game at a higher pressing tempo but owing to the squarish formation, it turns out another passing game.

- United needs a more effective high press especially since they are running such a high line. Ineffective pressing + high line is a recipe for disaster and something that led to quite a few points being dropped last season.
Agreed


- Carrington needs to be retooled. Better system, better coaches, better scouting, better players, whatever, they're just not where they should be. Real top clubs with history and pedigree MUST have a program for developing top talent. Barca, Real, Bayern all have world class academies that roll out world class talent in numbers, United arguably can only point to their class of '94 (and maybe Pogba).

Partially agreed. My feeling is that United has to pay attention to the recruiting of young lads from the different age groups and bringing them through the system. I have no comment of the coaching or scouting system as I know nuts about what the organization is made up of for that department. I honestly felt that playing the kids alone collective is not good enough. I fancy his inserting the kids to play alongside the seniors and let them gain confidence when they play alongside the seniors. He tried the same formation with the reserves with James Wilson ahead of Pereira today. And Pereira like Memphis scored the goal.


My opinion is that he should proceed to acquire a second striker that can play ahead of Rooney. If Ibra were to spearhead the attack with Rooney coming from behind it would be fun. Alternatively, if we acquire Ronaldo ( no Ibra), he can play on the right wing and that would be great, Then we can keep Rooney at the spearhead with Hererra/Mata behind him and Memphis on the left or Ronaldo on the right.

He can have Schneiderlin alongside Carrick/Schweinsteiger. Blind looks comfortable in **. On lesser games, we should try to keep the strength of the formation and allowing the kids to play alongside their seniors and thereby bringing them through. Thus we do not have to do a Sir Alex whereby we have to field a wholesale reserve squad at times for the league cup or FA Cup games. We have enough depth to roatate and keeping the first team formation blended with younger players in the lesser cups without having to sacrifice on anything. We need to go as far as possible if we want more games for the kids. PLAY THEM ALONGSIDE THE SENIOR - BUILD AND ENHANCE THEIR WINNING MENTALITY.

 

[tangene]

My thoughts, in red

- I get that modern formations are fluid. In essence, 4-4-1-1/4-2-3-1/4-3-3/4-1-4-1 are the same thing. That being said there are slight positional/role variations for each. Last seasons successes mostly came on the back of a 4-3-3/4-1-4-1 focused on overloading the flank with triangles between Mata-Herrera-Valencia or Young-Fellaini-LB. With a two pivot 4-2-3-1 the function of the midfield 2 would not be such. While it might work to United's benefit in the long run (I'm not sure), I wonder whether it's better to build on to the existing system seeing as how much of the team already spent a year working on it.

I get that much of the lack of fluidity thus far can be chalked up to a lack of movement but in Van Gaal teams much of that movement boils down to drilled and rehearsed positional tactics. Therefore new formation = new positional roles = new set of drilled movements.

- No matter how you slice it Mata is the better #10 and Memphis way better than Mata out wide. So Young/Memphis on the wings, only a matter of deciding on sides.

- 4-3-3 also works better if you want to work Di Maria into the team in a deeper central role.

- I remember that the high-press was a big feature of last year's pre-season prep. Oddly enough it kind of got lost as the season wore on. Not that it disappeared completely, the system of pressing just got less effective even though the line remained very high.

 

[tangene]

Partially agreed. My feeling is that United has to pay attention to the recruiting of young lads from the different age groups and bringing them through the system. I have no comment of the coaching or scouting system as I know nuts about what the organization is made up of for that department. I honestly felt that playing the kids alone collective is not good enough. I fancy his inserting the kids to play alongside the seniors and let them gain confidence when they play alongside the seniors. He tried the same formation with the reserves with James Wilson ahead of Pereira today. And Pereira like Memphis scored the goal.


My opinion is that he should proceed to acquire a second striker that can play ahead of Rooney. If Ibra were to spearhead the attack with Rooney coming from behind it would be fun. Alternatively, if we acquire Ronaldo ( no Ibra), he can play on the right wing and that would be great, Then we can keep Rooney at the spearhead with Hererra/Mata behind him and Memphis on the left or Ronaldo on the right.

He can have Schneiderlin alongside Carrick/Schweinsteiger. Blind looks comfortable in **. On lesser games, we should try to keep the strength of the formation and allowing the kids to play alongside their seniors and thereby bringing them through. Thus we do not have to do a Sir Alex whereby we have to field a wholesale reserve squad at times for the league cup or FA Cup games. We have enough depth to roatate and keeping the first team formation blended with younger players in the lesser cups without having to sacrifice on anything. We need to go as far as possible if we want more games for the kids. PLAY THEM ALONGSIDE THE SENIOR - BUILD AND ENHANCE THEIR WINNING MENTALITY.

I rate Mata much higher in the #10-hole than Di Maria/Memphis. On the flank he's severely handicapped and the team loses width/balance.

Young deserves to start. Memphis ought to play this season in a wide position to contribute most to the team. Sides? They got to work that one out somehow. They've both played left/right in the past and by my reckoning the team doesn't lose as much from them playing on a less preferred flank than it would sticking Mata on the right.

Di Maria (if he stays) would contribute most playing in his preferred deeper central position because while we now have quality wingers, we do not have anyone that can take it out of midfield at pace.

Rooney is a puzzle that needs to be solved eventually. He's frankly too slow/short to be a pure spearhead. And watching last season's experiment at midfield crash out in flames gives me pause about him ever moving to a deeper role. Yet he brings bags of intangibles and you have to admit that often times he drives the team somehow, so you can't exactly comfortably drop/sell him at this point.

---

I agree with you that it's pretty strange that Van Gaal hasn't mixed up his selections since all involved might actually benefit from that especially during pre-season games.

As for general youth development, I'm just saying that in terms of end product the Carrington production line has been falling short of where it should ideally be. And while I have no idea what exactly needs to be done to fix it, I nevertheless think it's high time someone took a serious look at what can be done to retool an underperforming system.

 

[vitaminc1231]

- Carrington needs to be retooled. Better system, better coaches, better scouting, better players, whatever, they're just not where they should be. Real top clubs with history and pedigree MUST have a program for developing top talent. Barca, Real, Bayern all have world class academies that roll out world class talent in numbers, United arguably can only point to their class of '94 (and maybe Pogba).

Class of 94 is what class?

 

[cracker]

Wa..has all the phlegm been cleared?

 

[DanielTng]

Class of 94 is what class?

I think it is 92. However, as I understood what the writer is trying to portray, I am not so petty.

I think he was referring to the Beckham, Gary Neville, Phil Neville, Nicky Butt and Giggsy lot

 

[cracker]

So now BM knew how Dortmund felt when they kept buying their top player in the last few years?



Manchester United could miss out on Thomas Muller deal thanks to Bayern Munich politics
Manchester United believe Thomas Muller wants to move to Old Trafford
However Bayern chief Karl Heinz Rummenigge could scupper the deal


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/tr...nks-Bayern-Munich-politics.html#ixzz3gevW6fjy
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

[DanielTng]

I rate Mata much higher in the #10-hole than Di Maria/Memphis. On the flank he's severely handicapped and the team loses width/balance.

Young deserves to start. Memphis ought to play this season in a wide position to contribute most to the team. Sides? They got to work that one out somehow. They've both played left/right in the past and by my reckoning the team doesn't lose as much from them playing on a less preferred flank than it would sticking Mata on the right.

Di Maria (if he stays) would contribute most playing in his preferred deeper central position because while we now have quality wingers, we do not have anyone that can take it out of midfield at pace.

Rooney is a puzzle that needs to be solved eventually. He's frankly too slow/short to be a pure spearhead. And watching last season's experiment at midfield crash out in flames gives me pause about him ever moving to a deeper role. Yet he brings bags of intangibles and you have to admit that often times he drives the team somehow, so you can't exactly comfortably drop/sell him at this point.


I don't know where it is coming from. I think if one bother to read what I have written for I know many doesn't which is okay to me. I am just supporting the fact that nobody in this forum should be scolded with explicities just because he/she viewed that a player like Rooney ought to be dropped. I then went on to explain that LVG, he is ruthless and unless Rooney measure up, he would suffer the fate of the other players that left. With Rooney coming openly that he should be accorded the central striker role ( or a role purportedly by the medias as what Van Gaal has responded to these people during the press interview ), if he doesn't measure up, then he would be in trouble and Van Gaal would not hesitate to cull him. Yes, I was trying to explain to far as to introduce simple mathematical illustrations to seal the point and whether it is appropriate is anybody's own digestion. But my imagination is with LVG if he felt that he has a balance lot and that if Rooney's game and contributions having deteriorate, he would not hesitate to cull him and I would not be surprised. I do not understand how it ended up that I advocated his demise. P4erhaps, somebody doesn't like my illustrations and pick on it to attack or somebody felt what another had written too much nonsense and beh song. I don't know. I was really uptight seeing the bad game by the youngsters and the below par game of the first half for both game. Van Gaal was heaping praises unto Memphis and Pereira and putting the blame onto Bastian Schweinsteiger. Yes Basti hit a couple of switching crosses shot which by his standard is poor but I was asking myself, I wonder Basti for all his live has to play this quality of a game with this lot of this standard that is back peddling and allowing the opponents to come pressing. Is he accustomed to this type of game that he breaks or is it really that we bought a dud. I wouldn't think the latter as this is a man that is in all winning teams and if he is a dud, he wouldn't survive till today. Then when I look back at the ever reliable Hererra that I do not know that he is on the field because there is no contribution by Hererra and I recall his name was not even mentioned by the match commentators, To me a match/performance is won or loss with 11 players on the pitch and 5 on the bench and not a mere Memphis or Pereira. To me he was happy with them so what? What about the overall performances of the others in the team etc. In a company you run your intern through the system by putting them to work with the seniors. You do not put all the interns together and hoping for them to put up a good senior performance. Thus when he levered the blame to Basti, I tripped my fuse.
---

I agree with you that it's pretty strange that Van Gaal hasn't mixed up his selections since all involved might actually benefit from that especially during pre-season games. This is puzzling and that is why I felt awkward about him especially when I have reservations towards his performance.

As for general youth development, I'm just saying that in terms of end product the Carrington production line has been falling short of where it should ideally be. And while I have no idea what exactly needs to be done to fix it, I nevertheless think it's high time someone took a serious look at what can be done to retool an underperforming system.

Yes, we have been falling short on the bringing true of outstanding players through the system and I didn't pin that on Van Gaal as to bring a kid through is lengthy process and the blame should originates from Sir Alex time. So, I didn't heap that bill onto LVG, honestly.

 

[cancer81]

Talking abt the criminal neglect of the midfield since the turn of the century?

 

[alexmcqueen]

I have one Arkham City Batman costs Ard $260

i have quite alot although i dun have all. the dx series batman and joker is worth every penny. i have tumbler and batpod too

but most of my stuffs are avengers. and i have given up ironman.

 

[pale]

I've got mixed feeling abt this, even if there is a remote possibility. Might sound crazy but not sure am I the only one here not desperately want him back.

Nope, CR7 is a luxury we cannot afford. Of cause I won't complain if he comes as he's a great player. But I wouldn't want the club to break the bank for him.

 

[chengsun]

- I get that modern formations are fluid. In essence, 4-4-1-1/4-2-3-1/4-3-3/4-1-4-1 are the same thing. That being said there are slight positional/role variations for each. Last seasons successes mostly came on the back of a 4-3-3/4-1-4-1 focused on overloading the flank with triangles between Mata-Herrera-Valencia or Young-Fellaini-LB. With a two pivot 4-2-3-1 the function of the midfield 2 would not be such. While it might work to United's benefit in the long run (I'm not sure), I wonder whether it's better to build on to the existing system seeing as how much of the team already spent a year working on it.

I get that much of the lack of fluidity thus far can be chalked up to a lack of movement but in Van Gaal teams much of that movement boils down to drilled and rehearsed positional tactics. Therefore new formation = new positional roles = new set of drilled movements.

- No matter how you slice it Mata is the better #10 and Memphis way better than Mata out wide. So Young/Memphis on the wings, only a matter of deciding on sides.

- 4-3-3 also works better if you want to work Di Maria into the team in a deeper central role.

- I remember that the high-press was a big feature of last year's pre-season prep. Oddly enough it kind of got lost as the season wore on. Not that it disappeared completely, the system of pressing just got less effective even though the line remained very high.

Agree with that

 

[chyehock]

I guess alot of people did not see the difference between last year friendly and this year friendly. Although, we won all the games and the cup but the gap between the players standing between each other are so big and the opponent did not try to close up thus making it look good. This year is different, the opponent will close the gap fast. It is more competitive then last.