Confirmed: SDP Dr. Chee to stand for election.

[cybercom8]

+1 for you. Quite amazing to see someone come out and say he saw everything, I wonder if he meant it literally.

probably a slip in their excitement

a leopard will never change its spots...

some will try their best to hide it...others can stay quiet or lay low for a while...but sooner or later, their true colours will be revealed

 

[cybercom8]

You are PAP IB, and have no business in this discussion. Look at your track records:

please lah, old man already, still quote these kind of superficial posts and deem someone pap IB.

like that we quote your posts, can deem you are SDP IB and scumbag?

 

[Chiong]

u mai xia suay yourself pls

u sure its really sinkies or the temptation of absolute power?

it's true, not just CSJ, but many MiWs and MiBs have been lured by the temptation of absolute power.

 

[cybercom8]

Cybercom8 is PAP IB, isn't it??

and no point using an un-sourced picture, photoshopped by FAP (facebook).

lol, if you are truly the sDP IB and a scumbag, then anyone else who does not agree with you are deemed pap ib

forget about the picture then and stop making excuses...just refute the fact that the chee guy went round the world denouncing singapore

thought you claimed you saw everything from way back then? practising selective amnesia?

 

[cybercom8]

it's true, not just CSJ, but many MiWs and MiBs have been lured by the temptation of absolute power.

that could very well be true...some are really tempted by money or power. the question is knowing who are those people

 

[spinning_quirK]

Logic says Chee has NEVER denounced Singapore.

Those who claim that Chee is a traitor in that regard always assume that PAP = Singapore and Singapore = PAP. Why do they choose to make such an assumption? It shows very low maturity in political matters.

 

[Soracak]

thanks for sharing...first time reading that and its so funny....and true

that chee guy is really worse than a scumbag for setting back the opposition decades when cst and sdp started to do well back then

This may surprise u. But with or without CSJ, the electorate would have turned out the same. Sg under the rule of lky has made incredible economic progress and rightly or wrongly, pap claimed the bulk of the credit.

Cst and ltk won on local battles where their forces of personality showed, whether it's Teochew club or whatever. There are no national issues big enough to win more oppo seats. And at the time, ppl have no Internet access, and most heard of cold storage, miw tracking votes, etc

Had SDP remained under cst, there is just no better future. Cst was tolerated not just becos he was a moderate, but also becos he was a small fish.

Now things are a whole lot different. There is a national crisis going on and sinkies need to do the right thing before it's too late.

 

[cybercom8]

Logic says Chee has NEVER denounced Singapore.

Those who claim that Chee is a traitor in that regard always assume that PAP = Singapore and Singapore = PAP. Why do they choose to make such an assumption? It shows very low maturity in political matters.

how can one speak of maturity when he is clearly lacking in that area?

if someone goes to foreign press and bodies and run down singapore, you think he clearly tells them its only pap and please do not print or do anything that would harm singapore and its citizens in any way?

oppies just lurve to spin

 

[cybercom8]

This may surprise u. But with or without CSJ, the electorate would have turned out the same. Sg under the rule of lky has made incredible economic progress and rightly or wrongly, pap claimed the bulk of the credit.

Cst and ltk won on local battles where their forces of personality showed, whether it's Teochew club or whatever. There are no national issues big enough to win more oppo seats. And at the time, ppl have no Internet access, and most heard of cold storage, miw tracking votes, etc

Had SDP remained under cst, there is just no better future. Cst was tolerated not just becos he was a moderate, but also becos he was a small fish.

Now things are a whole lot different. There is a national crisis going on and sinkies need to do the right thing before it's too late.

why do you like to spin your own story and not stick to facts?

sdp led by cst won 3 seats in an election, a watershed moment for singapore politics.

cst was then kicked out of his party by that chee guy who took over cst position as sec gen of sdp and sdp lost their seats while cst retained his.

sdp and the rest of the opposition did not recover from this sad saga caused by that chee guy for decades.

if cst had not taken in that chee guy, sdp which just became the de facto leading opposition party could have built on its strengths and wins and taken more seats in subsequent elections...way back then. we would have easily have more oppie seats by now if not for the back stabbing chee who did not waste any time in kicking out his mentor and taking over his position

 

[surfman]

Cybercom8 is PAP IB, isn't it??

and no point using an un-sourced picture, photoshopped by FAP (facebook).

The quotes are completely true, can check on Hansard. I think it's from when Goh Chok Tong went to take a honorary doctorate at Williams College and Chee Soon Juan flew over to protest. Chiam was definitely talking about SDP.

Mr Chiam See Tong:

If we take the example of Japan, Singapore must also put in its place an Opposition, but not any Opposition. Singapore must have a good, responsible and effective Opposition. That is the aim. I think of all responsible people in the Opposition, it is to make sure that Singapore has a good, honest Opposition. To me, Opposition means that we have to be honourable. On the Opposition, we must be honest and not dishonest. To me, the Opposition must be truthful, and not be liars and cheats.

Some hon. Members: Hear, Hear!

Mr Chiam See Tong: To me, above all, in the Opposition, we must be good and patriotic Singaporeans. We must not go around the world denouncing Singapore.

source: http://sprs.parl.gov.sg/search/topi...4945-ZZ_1+id003_19951103_S0002_T00033-motion+

honestly a lot of old Hansard records from debates in 1986-1996 are very interesting, because usually it involves Chiam See Tong vs everyone else in parliament.

If want to know what it is anyhow talk rubbish in parliament... go read jb jeyaretnam speeches in parliament. it was amazing that he became first opposition member to win a seat for 30+ years but the speech topics he chose are really erm....

 

[surfman]

add on: usually when Lee Kuan Yew speaks in parliament he wins the debate and makes everyone debating him look wrong. But in the debate about the HPL property saga in 1995 Chiam See Tong made a brilliant reply to Lee Kuan Yew's point that even Lee couldn't refute

basically Lee Kuan Yew was saying that companies naturally want to give discounts to famous people like ministers

The Senior Minister (Mr Lee Kuan Yew): But private corporations, private companies, private businessmen conduct their business to get the maximum advantage, the maximum profits. Hence, if they can get their product, whether a tennis racket or a golf stick, or a cap, or jogging shoes, or running shoes, worn by you and seen on television at the Olympics, or at the US Open, or Wimbledon, then thousands of others buy them. It is unfair, totally unfair. The No. 2 who gets beaten at Wimbledon gets a very small fraction of the No. 1. So they sweat their guts out to be No. 1.

Sports and TV stars are valuable, not because the sports maker thinks well of the sportsmen. He wants to sell his product. And having it used by a star well-known throughout the world, adds value to the product. Sellers want customers who are celebrities or, otherwise depending on the product, well-known and admired public people. So you see Mr Chiam had to sue a restaurant because they said that he ate at that restaurant. I do not know whether the food was good or bad, but Mr Chiam objected strenuously. He is not unknown. I am sure, if he were unknown, the judge would have given him a pittance, but he is Chiam See Tong with a record of many years in public life.

Mr Chiam, would you like to declare your income, although it is known to Inland Revenue? Would you like to declare your assets? No candidate would join the PAP, especially a successful one, if he has got to do that. Maybe Mr Low Thia Khiang would be prepared to do it because he has been having a pretty lean time. He has not been a lawyer. So he can show, "You see, how poor I am." But Mr Chiam, let us be honest, and then maybe you will still win Potong Pasir.

this is Chiam's reply after that

Mr Chiam See Tong: We talk of property. Dr Tan Cheng Bock asks whether I would be willing to declare. Sure, I would be willing to declare what properties I bought.

I will tell Members of one incident. I was a school teacher. In the 1960s, I was in the Singapore Teachers Union. I came to know that there was this Teachers' Housing Estate project. They built terrace houses especially for teachers. I booked a corner unit. It was a very good unit, with a basement below. I arranged with the principal for a loan. I put out some money and I was successful in purchasing that property. But at that time I already had two flats. I was living in one and renting out the other. I was a single person at that time, and being a bachelor I did not want to live in a terrace house all by myself. I had to rent it out. I asked myself what would happen if other teachers got to know. You are depriving them of one house. You are buying it to rent it out and they have a family and they do not have a house to stay in. So I gave up that purchase. That is the sort of principle that I have. Because I gave that up, I probably would lose by now over a million dollars. I do not know how much it costs now, but at least over a million dollars. That is the sort of values that I hope can be inculcated among Singaporeans. Sure, we want high salaries. We want a good living. We want money for our children to be educated. But at the same time we must have dedicated and committed people in Singapore. It is not just because of the salaries that I come to serve Singapore.

If we just depend on salary alone, this country is going to be like China sooner or later. Everybody just crazed for money. That is my point of view.

I have given up my time and energy for 20 years to be in politics, hoping that I can contribute. I think I have contributed something to Singapore. I think I have set an example, hopefully, that others will follow me when they are in the Opposition. We have also to help Singapore grow and be strong. It is not only the duty of the Government. It is also the duty of the Opposition. We are also nation builders.

Mr Lee Kuan Yew: Hear, hear! What about Mr Cheo? He has no opinion.

Chiam was a rare breed of politician in Singapore(both in PAP and opposition) - he was good both in parliament and on the constituency (most PAP MPs are neither). too bad he's not good at managing his own party affairs but that doesn't mean he's a bad politician

 

[arcanum00]

add on: usually when Lee Kuan Yew speaks in parliament he wins the debate and makes everyone debating him look wrong. But in the debate about the HPL property saga in 1995 Chiam See Tong made a brilliant reply to Lee Kuan Yew's point that even Lee couldn't refute

basically Lee Kuan Yew was saying that companies naturally want to give discounts to famous people like ministers



this is Chiam's reply after that


Chiam was a rare breed of politician in Singapore(both in PAP and opposition) - he was good both in parliament and on the constituency (most PAP MPs are neither). too bad he's not good at managing his own party affairs but that doesn't mean he's a bad politician

Come in to see Chiam See Tong's reply.

 

[ponpokku]

add on: usually when Lee Kuan Yew speaks in parliament he wins the debate and makes everyone debating him look wrong. But in the debate about the HPL property saga in 1995 Chiam See Tong made a brilliant reply to Lee Kuan Yew's point that even Lee couldn't refute

basically Lee Kuan Yew was saying that companies naturally want to give discounts to famous people like ministers



this is Chiam's reply after that


Chiam was a rare breed of politician in Singapore(both in PAP and opposition) - he was good both in parliament and on the constituency (most PAP MPs are neither). too bad he's not good at managing his own party affairs but that doesn't mean he's a bad politician

all these are only useful for historical studies, really.

old monkey is dead, CST is 1/2 senile and out of the pic, the present white dogs arent anywhere as capable or magnanimous, CSJ been fixed and shaken up, chiam's waifu ish not anywhere as capable.

its a new era, and all these has no reference on the present situation. CSJ could be a nobody when pitted against the old guards, pappies or oppo, of yester years. but he prolly stand a chance against the jiak liao bee white dogs of present day.

 

[kindaichi83]

Actually, I think there is a problem with Chiam. Anyone who works with him will leave (or kick him out, lol).



Chee Soon Juan (SDP), Desmond Lim (SDA), Kenneth Jeyaretnam (RP), and Benjamin Pwee (DPP) had all, at one point of time, been identified as his protege who will take over his mantle. Somehow, all left him. Chee kicked him out. Desmond Lim leads SDA because Chiam's own SPP left the alliance. KJ didn't join SDA in the end when Chiam was still around. And Benjamin Pwee, after taking over SPP, left hurriedly. That's why Chiam only has his wife to stand by him.


I guess this is it. Chiam still can't find a successor.


SPP's Lina Chiam to contest in Potong Pasir SMC in upcoming GE

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/spp-s-lina-chiam-to/2013204.html

Sad, she nominated herself for d erection. PP should have been retained if not becos of her. Should have given way to Benjamin Pwee or Desmond in last GE 2011. WP should go in. The Oppo supporters are still there leh

time and time again, these people you mentioned are proven egoistical delusional idiots.

they are power hungry and plotted to take over power from CST. But like Qian Long, he is not a lamb waiting slaughter, he is so much more experienced so he screwed them up deep deep. serve them right!

and since CST is still alive, 'nepotism' is definitely ok. even LTK also said to pass HG to his 'protege' but we all know he is controlling from within.

 

[siloti]

time and time again, these people you mentioned are proven egoistical delusional idiots.

they are power hungry and plotted to take over power from CST. But like Qian Long, he is not a lamb waiting slaughter, he is so much more experienced so he screwed them up deep deep. serve them right!

and since CST is still alive, 'nepotism' is definitely ok. even LTK also said to pass HG to his 'protege' but we all know he is controlling from within.

jin Kelian whole life meeting egoistical delusional idiots......but Lina is certainly not egoistical delusional idiots, just a bit aunty only.

 

[Dark.Horizon]

CSJ : The constitution allows us freedom of speech, assembly and
association -

Judge : Dr Chee!

CSJ : And you have completely butchered all that!

Judge : Dr Chee, the last question, if that can be a question, is completely irrelevant as far as this court is concerned. I've already said those sort of questions are not for this courtroom. He's here to assess to the damages.

CSJ : Point taken, your honour. And this is what I'm trying to derive at -

Judge : Now 2.40. I've given you the indulgence. I don't know if Miss Chee wishes to ask questions. I assume you are eating into her time.

CSJ : All that I'm saying right now is, your honour, Mr Lee has made this point that to gain political power there are certain rules and those rules are set in the constitution. And I'm saying that I agree with it. Those rules were not written by me. Those rules were written by the British, and which Mr Lee agreed to. Now in one of those rules there, it says citizens of Singapore are guaranteed the freedom of speech, association and assembly -

Singh : What is the question?

CSJ : Right now, why is Mr Lee changing those rules? Because when I begin to exercise these freedoms of speech and assembly -

Singh : If that's the question, the witness will answer the question.

CSJ : We get arrested. Tell us right now, are you up for a free and fair fight during elections?

LKY : I do not know -

CSJ : In a constitutional manner.

LKY : There is nothing to hinder an opposition party in Singapore from -

CSJ : I beg your pardon. There's everything that will hinder an opposition party.

LKY : The SDP was doing very well under Chiam See Tong and at one time captured three seats and it became the de-facto leader. You came in and destroy the SDP -

CSJ : Don't change subject, Mr Lee. Don't change the subject.

LKY : As a result, because you had destroyed the standing of the SDP, the Workers' Party has become the de-facto leader of the opposition. That's an open con-(inaudible). The Workers' Party has won the elections, Mr Chiam in his personal capacity has continually and repeatedly won the elections without defaming anybody.

CSJ : You see, Mr Lee, when I talk about -

LKY : Low Thia Kiang has not defame anybody, not defame the government, neither has Chiam See Tong and they have won successive by-elections but you have lost successively because we have disproved to the people that you are not to be believed.

CSJ : You see, Mr Lee, when I ask you about freedoms of speech, assembly-

LKY : That is the whole purpose of this exchange in this court -

CSJ : When I ask you about the freedoms of speech, assembly and association -

LKY : We have heard all that -

CSJ : I don't just mean political parties. I mean citizens of Singapore. Even a citizen of this country who is not a member of a political party has the right to freedom of speech, association and assembly -

Singh : And the question is, your honour?

Csj is one of the few ppl that can pwn lky and gang, alongside jbj.

Sent from A Singaporean Son using GAGT

 

[slowstatic]

This may surprise u. But with or without CSJ, the electorate would have turned out the same.

I am more shocked than surprise
U have the gift that normal ppl don't have ?
The power to see the past, present and the future.

天方夜谈

 

[parchiao]

You are PAP IB, and have no business in this discussion. Look at your track records:

In http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/e.../if-tharman-vs-ltk-who-u-support-5116968.html


In http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/e...ah-back-general-elections-2016-a-5115889.html


In http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/e...is-private-capacity-5096288.html#post94922814

Too bad for you, you don't own EDMW.

The strategy of trying to rewrite history will not work anymore. WP is the main opposition, an alternative voice exists and is much more moderate, something the electorate is willing to accept.

Most of the other opposition members have no credibility at this juncture, shifting about from one party to another like some opportunist. Everyone wants to be a leader, but none have even come close to winning an election on their own merit. This is the real deal. If CSJ continues to campaign on ideals and ignore the real situation, he will only make the task more difficult for himself.

 

[Soracak]

I am more shocked than surprise
U have the gift that normal ppl don't have ?
The power to see the past, present and the future.

天方夜谈

Yes I do. In fact many ppl have the gift as well. Something like 40% of sinkies I believe, not the majority but still sizeable.

Like it doesn't take a genius to foresee the future that awaits a 6.9 mil pop. The infrastructure, the transport the housing all not catered properly for. The coffee shop uncle downstairs can see it so no need simi 20 20 foresight excuse. U bring in cows u must also make sure u got enough grass to feed them.

Some outcomes are so inevitable that it will be inexcusable not to see it. I know u lack this gift and I am sorry about. It's not something I can teach well.

 

[Paull33lampard]

Will you give him another chance ?

http://www.cheesoonjuan.com/home/a-politics-worthy-of-our-nation

He seems to have toned down quite a bit. Maybe if he goes for a SMC, he might win it. His single seat might not be able to change anything, I think opposition supporters will give him a chance.