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limster

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Hi guys

I note that ETFs can be de-listed or ceased to be offered. What if those ETFs (ES3,IWDA or A35) that we purchase for our retirement got delisted halfway, eg 10 years later?

What would be the contingency plan then? Or is this not a cause for concern as the likelihood is too low?

Lets discuss!! :)

Lets just go library and borrow ETF for dummies book!

Alternatively, order Shiny's book. I'm sure the answer will also be inside!
 

Asphodeli

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Hi guys

I note that ETFs can be de-listed or ceased to be offered. What if those ETFs (ES3,IWDA or A35) that we purchase for our retirement got delisted halfway, eg 10 years later?

What would be the contingency plan then? Or is this not a cause for concern as the likelihood is too low?

Lets discuss!! :)

My experience comes from holding onto a listed fund which was subsequently delisted because they had no assets left after selling off everything in a "strategic review" because the unitholders were not happy (back then).

Assuming it's a delisting due to lack of volume and no other company wishes to take over the management of the fund, after settling debts and expenses, excess capital is returned to the unitholders.

This is extremely unlikely though, compared to other funds listed on the SGX.
 

Shiny Things

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Hi guys

I note that ETFs can be de-listed or ceased to be offered. What if those ETFs (ES3,IWDA or A35) that we purchase for our retirement got delisted halfway, eg 10 years later?

What would be the contingency plan then? Or is this not a cause for concern as the likelihood is too low?

Lets discuss!! :)

Yep, as Asphodeli said, they'll just sell the assets of the fund and give you back the money. At that point, you'll need to find something else to invest in.
 

allan_nalla

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For people using Google Spreadsheets for your Portfolio Tracker, is there an error for tickers listed in SGX?

ERROR
When evaluation GOOGLEFINANCE, Google Spreadsheets is not authorized to access data for exchange: SGX

Am I the only one?
 

newjersey

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hi ST,


do most people lose money over stocks as a global average?

I think I read it somewhere that most folks end up losing than winning.

Please share your thoughts on this.
 

wahkao3

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hi ST,


do most people lose money over stocks as a global average?

I think I read it somewhere that most folks end up losing than winning.

Please share your thoughts on this.
yes tats true. most lose than win
 

Shiny Things

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do most people lose money over stocks as a global average?

I think I read it somewhere that most folks end up losing than winning.

Please share your thoughts on this.

Nope, the average investor in stocks is profitable, but they make a lot less than the index return.

There's a firm called Dalbar that analyses how investors in equity mutual funds perform, compared to the funds themselves. Over the last 30 years, they found that the average investor in US stock mutual funds made about 3.7% per year, but the S&P 500 index made 11.1% per year. That's honestly pretty atrocious, but it's not "losing".

This is why I bang on so much about buy-and-hold, and being methodical. If you're methodical about how you invest, you'll save yourself from making a lot of mistakes, and those mistakes cost a lot of money. $10,000 invested at 3.7% for 30 years will turn into about thirty thousand dollars - but if you avoid the mistakes, and make 11.1% instead of 3.7%, that $10,000 will turn into two hundred and thirty thousand dollars.
 

doody_

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Nope, the average investor in stocks is profitable, but they make a lot less than the index return.

There's a firm called Dalbar that analyses how investors in equity mutual funds perform, compared to the funds themselves. Over the last 30 years, they found that the average investor in US stock mutual funds made about 3.7% per year, but the S&P 500 index made 11.1% per year. That's honestly pretty atrocious, but it's not "losing".

This is why I bang on so much about buy-and-hold, and being methodical. If you're methodical about how you invest, you'll save yourself from making a lot of mistakes, and those mistakes cost a lot of money. $10,000 invested at 3.7% for 30 years will turn into about thirty thousand dollars - but if you avoid the mistakes, and make 11.1% instead of 3.7%, that $10,000 will turn into two hundred and thirty thousand dollars.

That's probably why it's not about making a profit, but beating the index benchmark. Imagine you jumped through hoops and spent your evenings reading countless financial reports, and at the end of the year you have an awesome 8% return. Except the benchmark index returned 12% that year and you could have spent those evenings chilling out if you bought an index ETF.
 
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Hi I have a qn for the veterans here

How does bond fund perform in an rising rate environment? Tale a35 as example. Modified duration of 6+ years, hence when I/r rise 1%, does it mean that the price of the bond fund will fall by 1% multiply by MD of 6? If in the long term, I expect rates to rise up till 5-8% (historical normal levels). What would this do to my bond fund which I have bought at this ZIRP levels
 
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How does bond fund perform in an rising rate environment? Tale a35 as example. Modified duration of 6+ years, hence when I/r rise 1%, does it mean that the price of the bond fund will fall by 1% multiply by MD of 6?
Yea, that's pretty much correct.

If in the long term, I expect rates to rise up till 5-8% (historical normal levels). What would this do to my bond fund which I have bought at this ZIRP levels

Heres's where most misunderstood about the role of having a bond fund. since they have no maturity date, it could mean you will have no capital protection. But if the bond fund holds your bond to maturity, your capital is in fact protected.

the advantage of having a bond fund is that you don't have to deal with those wide spread when you purchase individual bonds. A35 also taps into some government linked bond which requires huge investment capital to purchase.

Also when interest rate rises, your bond fund will purchase new bonds that gives higher coupons. If you buy an individual bond, you will have to wait until the bond matures before you can roll it to a new bond with higher yield.

further reading
 
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Yes I can envisage about the reinvestment portion. I believe that most bond funds sell their holdings when the underlying is close to maturity and continuall reinvest to keep the fund going.

Anyway, my main point is, is it worthwhile to be DCAing bond funds in this type of zero ir levels? I'm not sure since If I bought at current price, I will incur 6% loss in bond price for every 1% rate hike. This means I'll be DCAing from peak bond price all the way down which also means the coupon payout might not even offset the loss from the price I bought in (Please advice)
 
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Zabiyaki

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Ive a question for ST..

Seeing as to how you're working in Cali, do you buy your insurance over there or in SG?

Does it make a difference?
 
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Shiny Things

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Ive a question for ST..

Seeing as to how you're working in Cali, do you buy your insurance over there or in SG?

Does it make a difference?

I'm not Singaporean (I was one of those FT blow-ins) so it wouldn't really make a difference, but the answer is that I don't have any life insurance (don't need it), and I get my medical/dental/optical insurance through my employer.

How does bond fund perform in an rising rate environment? Tale a35 as example. Modified duration of 6+ years, hence when I/r rise 1%, does it mean that the price of the bond fund will fall by 1% multiply by MD of 6?

Yep.

For anyone who's not heard of "modified duration" before - all bond funds report it, and it's a good first-order approximation of how much interest rate risk is in the fund. What it means is: if interest rates have a parallel shift higher of 1% at every point in the yield curve, you'll lose {modD}%. So if the SGD yield curve moves 1% higher, and your fund has a modified duration of 6.0, you'll lose 6% of your money.

Modified durations can be large (on long-dated low-coupon bonds, and especially so on zero-coupon bonds), small (on floating rate bonds, where the rate resets every few months), or even negative (on mortgage IOs, where rising interest rates mean you get payments for a longer period of time; or if your fund has used futures or borrowing to get net short bonds).

If in the long term, I expect rates to rise up till 5-8% (historical normal levels). What would this do to my bond fund which I have bought at this ZIRP levels

It all depends on how fast those rates go up. Two things to keep in mind:

1) The A35 fund holds bonds pretty much all the way to maturity, so even if the bonds inside the fund lose some money during the move, they'll gain that money back when they converge to par;
2) You're earning interest all the way up, and that interest rate rises as rates go up (because the fund reinvests its maturing bonds into higher-coupon bonds).

Anyway - I don't have the chops or the bond analytics tools to do this myself, but I can link to people who do. This research paper from Nuveen is a lot to wade through, but if you skip straight to page 5, you'll see how a bunch of different bond classes performed during the rising rate environments of 1994/'95, 1999/2000, and 2004-'06.

Short answer: they were pretty much flat. In most cases, the carry from interest payments and reinvestment covered the mark-to-market losses on the bonds, and those rate-hiking cycles were a lot faster (hikes at every meeting) than what everyone's expecting from the Fed this time around (hikes at every second meeting).

Rates are starting from a lower base this time around, so you've got less carry to insulate you, but also the hikes will be slower, so the mark-to-market losses will be less severe. I think the net result is going to be that US and Singaporean bonds are pretty much flat for the next few years.
 
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