How do I invest in oil?

rbth x 0408

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not sure if this is the right place to ask..
but if i want to buy crude brent, what are the recommend firms to use?

just read from earlier post that ig & city index are not that...honest?
 

Jedihan

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Oil is trading and not for investment. I play oil as a hobby and as not for investment. The movement for oil easily can make any normal person piss their pants
 

Shiny Things

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not sure if this is the right place to ask..
but if i want to buy crude brent, what are the recommend firms to use?

just read from earlier post that ig & city index are not that...honest?

Don't use the spread-betting firms; find a respectable futures broker.

Brent crude futures trade on ICE and they're tremendously liquid. Any futures broker that connects to ICE will be able to hook you up, and there's no question of honesty because you're trading directly on the exchange.

My usual recommendation is Interactive, but there are zillions of futures firms out there.
 

jaspertrades

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Nope - USO will underperform the oil price because of that contango effect.

Thanks for the comprehensive reply! Can I ask which stocks follow oil prices most closely and what stocks would you recommend? Thanks a lot, I now fully understand how uso works
 

Shiny Things

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Thanks for the comprehensive reply! Can I ask which stocks follow oil prices most closely and what stocks would you recommend? Thanks a lot, I now fully understand how uso works

Unfortunately the answer is USO. As a retail investor, trailing the oil price by a lot is the best you can do.

Retail traders can't buy physical oil. You can't charter a ship and pump it full of the black stuff. So that means you're forced to use either futures or ETFs - and either way you're going to pay contango.

(I legitimately looked at this a few weeks ago - basically asking "could I charter a VLCC, pump it full of cash WTI at $32/bbl, then sell Dec WTI futures at $38/bbl and pocket the gains?". The answer is "not really"; chartering the ship eats up nearly all of your cash-and-carry gains, and you need a few tens of millions worth of credit lines to actually do the trade and cover the margin on the futures hedge. Too much hassle.)
 

limster

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@ts,

I share my oil investment experience when crude hit 140+ per barrel. I was sitting on 2x gain on XLE. Oil experts was saying that we have reached Peak Oil. It's going to 200 per barrel. :D Then there is a fringe group say oil is abiotic. Basically, can milk mother earth like a cow for crude. :o Some smart alec was saying oil price had peaked... get out. I was holding steadfast to Peak Oil and saw my profit vaporized. :(

Based on this experience, I would say at best, oil is trade and not an investment. You learn what is contango.. maybe later learn what is backwardation. ;)

Same, last GFC I also tried USO, I managed to exit with only a few hundred dollars profits despite oil making huge swings in my favour due to contango etc. So I also say that the returns I got did not match the risk I took.

However, I think oil has hit a low (i.e. recent lows will be retested but unlikely to be broken). Yesterday, vested ShellB ADR at $43.00. This morning wake up, price up to $44.13. Can contra liao :s13:
 

jaspertrades

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Unfortunately the answer is USO. As a retail investor, trailing the oil price by a lot is the best you can do.

Retail traders can't buy physical oil. You can't charter a ship and pump it full of the black stuff. So that means you're forced to use either futures or ETFs - and either way you're going to pay contango.

(I legitimately looked at this a few weeks ago - basically asking "could I charter a VLCC, pump it full of cash WTI at $32/bbl, then sell Dec WTI futures at $38/bbl and pocket the gains?". The answer is "not really"; chartering the ship eats up nearly all of your cash-and-carry gains, and you need a few tens of millions worth of credit lines to actually do the trade and cover the margin on the futures hedge. Too much hassle.)

OK thanks a lot!
 

frenchbriefs

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xop xle,

as for oil etfs uso and dbo and usl are problematic,i suggest u go for usl or maybe 1/3rd of each.....
 

blurinvestor

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please advice

this is my non-sensical approach -
you need to interprete news from oil production countries; demand and supply of oil.

you need to look at the chart and find what triggered the high and low price of oil for the past months.

you need to make your own judgement - will opec cut down production; will there be a demand; cut down no demand, cut down high demand, no cut no demand, no cut high demand, war, political uncertainty, if everybody go nuclear; if solar energy become dirt cheap .
how low do you think they can go, if US$14, what are the reasons they want to get that low.
if they cut in this present market condition, how high you expect oil to go - US$40, you need to know your reasons.

you need to map out your chart, have faith in your interpretation and bet on your expectation.
open an account with $XXX, hit the button, and let the market play out and pray that there is no margin call.

btw I'm off oil now, too many uncertainty. countries cut rate but to find their currencies go up than down; jie jie wayang too much, the pig and the gang in play. boj also play by the pig, hence careful. before you think the market is regulated think ten times.
look at the tennis player faces they look so serious on the courts but they are laughing all the way to the bank - win or lose. football, stocks, forex, oil - all are corrupted. if you are on the side of the syndicate you win.
 
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