377A cases: Lawyer seeks same-time verdict

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sex, hetereosexual or homeosexual, keeps dominating our courts!

Lawyer seeks same-time verdict for 377A cases

Human rights lawyer M Ravi on Tuesday appealed to Singapore’s High Court to issue its judgment on two ongoing constitutional challenges to its controversial gay law at the same time.

In a letter sent to Justice Quentin Loh, who is presiding over the case brought forward by Ravi’s client Tan Eng Hong, as well as the case of couple Gary Lim and Kenneth Chee, the lawyer expressed concerns that verdicts being issued one after another may compromise the outcome of the case that receives judgment later.

Pointing out that Tan was in 2010 arrested, charged and detained under Section 377A of the Penal Code — which criminalises consensual intercourse between men — Ravi argued that his client should be permitted to submit arguments in front of any hearing on the constitutionality of the law.

“Further, the Court of Appeal must have the benefit of the fullest possible arguments prior to issuing any judgment on such an important constitutional question,” he wrote, adding that Tan in his case had raised issues not brought forward in the case of Lim and Chee.

Ravi expressed his hope that in the interest of “a fair trial and access to justice”, judgment for both cases will be issued together so that appeals can be joined and heard together, in the interest of all parties involved, since both cases challenge the constitutionality of the Section.

Tan’s case against Section 377A began after he was charged under the act in 2010 for engaging in fellatio with another man in a toilet cubicle in a mall. After Ravi questioned its constitutionality, prosecutors modified the charges they placed against him to committing an obscene act in public, for which Tan and his partner were fined $3,000 each.

The case of Lim and Chee was brought forward to the High Court in late November last year, after the couple, who have been together for 15 years, did not want to be labelled as criminals. Their case was heard before Justice Loh in mid-February this year, while Tan’s case was heard in early March.

When contacted, one of the two lawyers representing Lim and Chee said they would be agreeable to Justice Loh’s judgment being issued either separately or together.

“I don’t think it’s our place to request when a judgment is to be issued,” said Choo Zheng Xi, who is assisting senior counsel Peter Low with Lim’s and Chee’s case. “We are happy to leave this in the judge’s good hands.”

Source: Lawyer seeks same-time verdict for 377A cases
 

NTB2DO

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..Tan’s case against Section 377A began after he was charged under the act in 2010 for engaging in fellatio with another man in a toilet cubicle in a mall. After Ravi questioned its constitutionality, prosecutors modified the charges they placed against him to committing an obscene act in public, for which Tan and his partner were fined $3,000 each.

But since Tan was not convicted under 377A but for "committing an abscene act", what "criminalisation" are they talking about?
 

Cheesypoofs

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But since Tan was not convicted under 377A but for "committing an abscene act", what "criminalisation" are they talking about?

It is the danger that anybody else could be committed under 377a again, methinks.
I haven't been following this case closely because I thought that from the beginning that it was a lost cause (pardon my cynicism).

But I guess Ravi's argument is that if it has happened once, it may happen again, that the law could always use 377a as a scare tactic to gay men, as and when, even though the government has indicated that they wouldn't do so.
 

sunzoner

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But since Tan was not convicted under 377A but for "committing an abscene act", what "criminalisation" are they talking about?

Tan was first brought to court on 377A. The charges were amended after it was challenged. If 377A was not there, Tan may have never been brought to court. Hence, Tan was "made" a "criminal" by 377A.
 

NTB2DO

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Tan was first brought to court on 377A. The charges were amended after it was challenged. If 377A was not there, Tan may have never been brought to court. Hence, Tan was "made" a "criminal" by 377A.

Though he was first charged under 377A, had 377A not been there, he would have charged with commiting obscene act (in public place) anyway. Hence he would still be made a "criminal"--under the obscene act (which he was).
 

NTB2DO

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It is the danger that anybody else could be committed under 377a again, methinks.
I haven't been following this case closely because I thought that from the beginning that it was a lost cause (pardon my cynicism).

But I guess Ravi's argument is that if it has happened once, it may happen again, that the law could always use 377a as a scare tactic to gay men, as and when, even though the government has indicated that they wouldn't do so.

No I doubt it would happen again. Cos the move to amend the charge (from 377A) to Obscene Act would kind of acknowledge that it's a mistake (an oversight?) to use 377A to charge them. Surely the court can't possibly keep repeating the same mistake right?
 

sunzoner

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Though he was first charged under 377A, had 377A not been there, he would have charged with commiting obscene act (in public place) anyway. Hence he would still be made a "criminal"--under the obscene act (which he was).

I am unsure if the ACT covers things that was done privately between two individuals in the privacy of a room (public toilet cubicle in this case).

I am aware of the verdict hence my reluctence to discuss my opinion of whether a chargable act has been committed.
 

sunzoner

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No I doubt it would happen again. Cos the move to amend the charge (from 377A) to Obscene Act would kind of acknowledge that it's a mistake (an oversight?) to use 377A to charge them. Surely the court can't possibly keep repeating the same mistake right?

The court did not make the "mistake". The prosecution did as it is the party that brings the charge before the court.

If charging someone under 377A is a mistake, then the non-legally trained me wonders, is 377A itself a mistake. maybe the legally trained can help decipher the judgement for the non-legally trained and let us know the implication of such a ruling...
 

NTB2DO

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The court did not make the "mistake". The prosecution did as it is the party that brings the charge before the court.

If charging someone under 377A is a mistake, then the non-legally trained me wonders, is 377A itself a mistake. maybe the legally trained can help decipher the judgement for the non-legally trained and let us know the implication of such a ruling...

It's "mistake" because govt already declare that 377A is meant to be just an "ornamental" act mah.
 
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