About CPF life premium

[vsvs24]

You reminded me of a deadwood in my company who were unable to make any meaningful contribution but felt obligated to make comment to justify his existence.

Do you know that you can simply copy and paste whatever you have problems reading and break it up to as many paragraphs as you like. So I do it here for you so that you are able to read what I've written.

So how many paragraphs you need before you are able to read and understand what's written?

Nice efforts talking and replying to yourself.

Why you think people got nothing better to do and want them to copy and paste your words and break into paragraph.

I saw one big chunk of words, don't bother to read and just skip.

He is actually teaching you how to help yourself by making it easier for people to read so that hopefully someone takes time to read and has the answer.

 

[konan~]

Incredible. So many ids just for a simple thing like this.

 

[reddevil0728]

You reminded me of a deadwood in my company who were unable to make any meaningful contribution but felt obligated to make comment to justify his existence.

Do you know that you can simply copy and paste whatever you have problems reading and break it up to as many paragraphs as you like. So I do it here for you so that you are able to read what I've written.

So how many paragraphs you need before you are able to read and understand what's written?

Nice efforts talking and replying to yourself.

Well, it’s a very simple request without malice about asking if you can paragraph or more specific have spacing between paragraph.

I don’t see why you need to be so offended by it.

if you look at your latest post, your paragraphed or having spacing between, which makes it so much easier for people to read and hence understand.

not sure why such resistance to make it easier for other people to read?

 

[reddevil0728]

Incredible. So many ids just for a simple thing like this.

precisely right. very simple to just leave spaces between paragraphs. make it easier for people to read.

i think the people here are very helpful. but when you make it so difficult for people to read. a lot of people might not even bother to read to help

 

[Derrick lcl]

Have anyone started collecting from CPF life? Is the CPF life payout estimator close to actual amount? Thanks

 

[henrylbh]

Hmm no eh.

I’m quoting the right post.

because without paragraphing or at least spacing between paragraphs. It’s really difficult to read.

I understand perfectly what's written. Paragraphing and spacing may still not helped if the reader is not familiar with the subject.

I am curious to get the answers to his questions. His CPFL premium only less than 10% at age 55 and no more further deduction at age 65?

 

[reddevil0728]

I understand perfectly what's written. Paragraphing and spacing may still not helped if the reader is not familiar with the subject.

Don’t disagree both are possible.

however, I’m not the only one who say it’s difficult to read hence people may not read.

since you read, could you address the question so all can learn?

 

[henrylbh]

Don’t disagree both are possible.

however, I’m not the only one who say it’s difficult to read hence people may not read.

since you read, could you address the question so all can learn?

He laid out his case clearly with numbers. He only wishes to know the exact numbers for the next 2 cohorts after him. I also wish to know for sake of knowing

His FRS was 139k and based on my past note, those who chose Basic Plan will received between 1033 and 1128.

The next cohort's FRS was 148k and the payout is between 1121 and 1231.

And the cohort after is 155k with payout between 1120 and 1320.

The exact payout depends on which month they turn 55.

 

[Andrew833]

He laid out his case clearly with numbers. He only wishes to know the exact numbers for the next 2 cohorts after him. I also wish to know for sake of knowing

His FRS was 139k and based on my past note, those who chose Basic Plan will received between 1033 and 1128.

The next cohort's FRS was 148k and the payout is between 1121 and 1231.

And the cohort after is 155k with payout between 1120 and 1320.

The exact payout depends on which month they turn 55.

"The FRS of $139,000 was transferred to RA in 2013 and $12,698 was deducted from RA also in 2013 for the CPF Life premium leaving $126,302 in my RA. At age 65, my RA had grown to $193,910 and the amount deducted from my RA for the CPF Life premium in 2013 was still the same $12,698 as reflected in my Retirement dashboard."

This part of his post I don't understand.
139k into RA
12,698 to CPF Life premium (premium so little for Basic plan? less than 10%)

I more interested in standard plan.

 

[royalmix]

I have exactly the same question as Homedriver and hopefully some who have chosen the Basic Plan from the 1959 or 1960 cohorts can provide some real figures to clarify.
I am male from the 1958 cohort. The FRS of $139,000 was transferred to RA in 2013 and $12,698 was deducted from RA also in 2013 for the CPF Life premium leaving $126,302 in my RA. At age 65, my RA had grown to $193,910 and the amount deducted from my RA for the CPF Life premium in 2013 was still the same $12,698 as reflected in my Retirement dashboard. I started my monthly payout drawdown of $1098/month from my RA at age 65. When I reach 90, my RA balance will become $0 and the CPF Life premium will kick in to pay my monthly payout. If I pass on exactly at age 90, then the unused premium of $12,698 that was deducted from RA also in 2013 will pass on to my beneficiary in the form of bequest.
I would like to find out real figures from the 1959 or 1960 cohort who have have chosen the Basic Plan and started their monthly payout drawdown at age 65. I would like to know how much were deducted from their RA for the CPF Life premium. I suspect it will be around $23,000 and this will be the bequest if the member passes on at age 90. I believe Homedriver was trying to drive this point, the difference in the bequest amount should member passes on at 90 or before, a difference of $10,000+.
Anyone from the 1959 or 1960 cohort who are on the Basic Plan and has started the drawdown that can provide some real figures?

I post your comments to CHATGPT, guess what was the reply?

"The comment is generally clear and written in a reasonably understandable way for an audience familiar with CPF LIFE and retirement schemes in Singapore"

You need a CPF expert like me to understand and answer your questions!

Before I answer all your questions, pls provide the following clarifications:

1. The CPF Life rules for your cohort, as I understand, state that there will be 2 deductions of CPF Life Premium for Basic Plan: one at 55 and another at 65. So I was surprised you did not get a second deduction.

2. Pls confirm again: your current CPF dashboard or statement only show 12698 as CPF Life Premium?

3. So, either CPF Board "forget" to do a second deduction, or there was a change in rule, or I misunderstood the meaning of the second deduction.

 

[vsvs24]

I post your comments to CHATGPT, guess what was the reply?

"The comment is generally clear and written in a reasonably understandable way for an audience familiar with CPF LIFE and retirement schemes in Singapore"

You need a CPF expert like me to understand and answer your questions!

Before I answer all your questions, pls provide the following clarifications:

1. The CPF Life rules for your cohort, as I understand, state that there will be 2 deductions of CPF Life Premium for Basic Plan: one at 55 and another at 65. So I was surprised you did not get a second deduction.

2. Pls confirm again: your current CPF dashboard or statement only show 12698 as CPF Life Premium?

3. So, either CPF Board "forget" to do a second deduction, or there was a change in rule, or I misunderstood the meaning of the second deduction.

CPF Life premium deducted at 55 ?

 

[royalmix]

CPF Life premium deducted at 55 ?

You are too young to understand or know the history of CPF Life. I will stop answering any more questions!

And you blame him on his grammar or english?

 

[wutawa]

my understanding is cpfl basic is the most similar to the old rss, using ra as payout from 65-90yo.
however, it is being "discouraged" by:
- not default plan
- getting less payout than the default plan

@konan~ thanks for sharing your figures. i am sorry that u are the suay 1st batch that cannot have rss but u are brave to choose basic plan.

 

[BBCWatcher]

my understanding is cpfl basic is the most similar to the old rss, using ra as payout from 65-90yo.
however, it is being "discouraged" by:
- not default plan
- getting less payout than the default plan

The CPF LIFE Basic Plan is guaranteed to be worse for the member (the retiree) than the CPF LIFE Standard Plan: the monthly payout is permanently lower, for the rest of the member's life. Guaranteed.

The CPF LIFE Basic Plan may or may not be better for the member's CPF nominee(s). That'll depend on how long the member lives; and [since the payouts are lower:] how much more financial support the nominee(s) must provide to the member, how much more the member must draw down from other assets (that then are not inherited), and/or how much less the member gives to his/her nominee(s) before he/she dies.

The CPF LIFE Escalating Plan is the Standard Plan but with a 2%/year escalation slope added. It's the only payout plan that even attempts to combat inflation. Both of the other payout plans would require progressive real reductions in lifestyle if (when?) other savings are exhausted. The Escalating Plan would hold real lifestyle constant if Singapore dollar inflation averages 2%/year (the MAS's target). It starts out with lower monthly payouts than both the Basic and Standard Plans and then escalates at 2%/year for as long as the member lives. The residuals are similar to but slightly higher than the Standard Plan's.

 

[royalmix]

@konan~ thanks for sharing your figures. i am sorry that u are the suay 1st batch that cannot have rss but u are brave to choose basic plan.

He was smart/savvy to choose Basic Plan at that time!

This is the history of CPF Life which you are too young to understand or know.

If he had chosen Standard Plan then, he stand to lose 4%pa on his premium (50% RA at 55) for 10 years (compounded) if he was unfortunate to die at 65! (a CEO died at 66 and so many died during COVID).

For those who join CPF Life at 65 with Standard Plan, you also “stand to lose” another 3%pa on 30k (total $900) compounded if you die earlier than “expected”! This is the extra interest, and the CPF rules state:

1. If you are 55 years old and above, you will earn an extra interest of

a. 2% per annum on the first $30,000 and

b. 1% per annum on the next $30,000 of your combined CPF balances (capped at $20,000 for OA).

2. If you have joined the CPF LIFE scheme, the extra interest earned will be paid into your RA (Basic Plan) or accumulated with the interest earned on the CPF LIFE premiums of all CPF LIFE members (Standard & Escalating Plan).

 

[BBCWatcher]

If he had chosen Standard Plan then, he stand to lose 4%pa on his premium (50% RA at 55) for 10 years (compounded) if he was unfortunate to die at 65! (a CEO died at 66 and so many died during COVID).

Ah...no, that's not correct as you've written it. He (this hypothetical person) didn't lose anything. This hypothetical person's CPF nominee(s) lost some interest in this scenario.

The CPF member him/herself never does better with the CPF LIFE Basic Plan versus the CPF LIFE Standard Plan. The CPF member's nominee(s) might or might not do better if their benefactor chooses the CPF LIFE Basic Plan.

I really wish posters would be more precise about this simple fact!

 

[BBCWatcher]

The CPF member's nominee(s) might or might not do better if their benefactor chooses the CPF LIFE Basic Plan.

I'll pick up on this sentence. The member's nominee(s) will do better or worse depending on these factors:

• how long the member lives;
• how much more financial support the nominee(s) must provide to the member (since the Basic Plan's payout is permanently lower than the Standard Plan's);
• how much less the member gives to his/her nominee(s) while the member is still alive (since the Basic Plan's payout is permanent lower than the Standard Plan's).

Let's suppose for example a hypothetical member age 65 is considering these two plans and that the Standard Plan pays $100/month more than the Basic Plan with this hypothetical member's Retirement Account balance. In this example the member is prepared to accept the Basic Plan's lower income stream.

OK, let's further assume the member has $50,000 stuffed in fixed deposits and forecasts a 2% average interest rate on those fixed deposits going forward. The member plans for living to age 100 (as a "worst case" longevity), we'll assume. (I think 105 is safer for general retirement planning purposes, but let's go with 100.)

In this scenario the member is actually deciding between....

1. The CPF LIFE Basic Plan, or
2. The CPF LIFE Standard Plan, plus giving the nominee(s) $30,300 of personal savings right now.

Remember, the CPF LIFE Standard Plan pays $100 more per month in this example. That's $100 per month less income that the member needs from his/her own savings. And if those savings are in ~2% fixed deposits (and with a terminal age of 100), approx. $30,300 is the gift available to make NOW, at age 65.

You can apply whatever reasonable assumptions you like in your retirement financial planning, but the bottom line is that higher retirement income frees up personal savings that you can safely give to nominee(s) BEFORE you die. If you want, you can decide how this example's extra $30,300 is spent. (If for example you want the $30,300 to help a special needs grandchild instead of your child's drinking habits, you can.) And the government effectively guarantees this lifetime gift giving part, too!

 

[royalmix]

Ah...no, that's not correct as you've written it. He (this hypothetical person) didn't lose anything. This hypothetical person's CPF nominee(s) lost some interest in this scenario.

The CPF member him/herself never does better with the CPF LIFE Basic Plan versus the CPF LIFE Standard Plan. The CPF member's nominee(s) might or might not do better if their benefactor chooses the CPF LIFE Basic Plan.

I really wish posters would be more precise about this simple fact!

When I say he will lose, I mean that the beneficiaries will lose! Obviously, the policyholder is no longer around, so it’s about the financial consequence for those inheriting the legacy. That’s just common sense when we talk about legacy planning.

I'm speaking in practical terms, so dun overcomplicate things for the sake of technical accuracy. Dun get caught up in the technical side and miss the bigger picture. We all know you like to nitpick over things like phrasing, even though the intent was clear to anyone who understands the situation.

It is a total waste of time to continue repeating the same old story!

Why aren't you here to answer Konan's questions? I am here to answer his questions!

Goodbye!

 

[BBCWatcher]

When I say he will lose, I mean that the beneficiaries will lose!

Then that's what you should write if that's what you mean. Person A is not Person B! Subjects and pronouns are important.

CPF nominee(s) may or may not be better off when the member chooses the CPF LIFE Standard Plan instead of the CPF LIFE Basic Plan. That's an "it depends" situation.

Obviously, the policyholder is no longer around, so it’s about the financial consequence for those inheriting the legacy. That’s just common sense when we talk about legacy planning.

Then write what you mean! Especially if you're going to castigate other posters for allegedly not understanding CPF LIFE.

 

[wutawa]

Why aren't you here to answer Konan's questions? I am here to answer his questions!

Anyone from the 1959 or 1960 cohort who are on the Basic Plan and has started the drawdown that can provide some real figures?

I guess BBC
- doesn't have cpf or;
- doesn't belong to 1959 or 1960 cohort or;
- didn't opt for basic plan