About ILP and CI/ECI

kediraksith

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Hi guys, im really curious about something...

Most term with CI rider only covers you till 65... and they are expensive
ILP also offers CI/ECI

I havent done the maths and stuffs, but im just thinking... for those who say buy term and invest the rest, what happens if you kenna CI/ECI after 65? I dont think health shield insurance can cover everything right? Cannot be let your CI/ECI case wipe out all your years of investing moolahs?

Just wanna learn how you guys migitate your risk towards CI/ECIs... because according to my friend, he read a lot, he also wanted to do BTIR... in the end he went ILP, coz he say ILP will cover all the way till you die... mortality charges is freakking ex but at least you're still covered in a way....
 

JuniorLion

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Hi guys, im really curious about something...

Most term with CI rider only covers you till 65... and they are expensive
ILP also offers CI/ECI

I havent done the maths and stuffs, but im just thinking... for those who say buy term and invest the rest, what happens if you kenna CI/ECI after 65? I dont think health shield insurance can cover everything right? Cannot be let your CI/ECI case wipe out all your years of investing moolahs?

Just wanna learn how you guys migitate your risk towards CI/ECIs... because according to my friend, he read a lot, he also wanted to do BTIR... in the end he went ILP, coz he say ILP will cover all the way till you die... mortality charges is freakking ex but at least you're still covered in a way....

Do you still need CI/ECI after 65 years old? That would depend on how you answer the question: what is the purpose of the CI/ECI for you?
 

beefjerky

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Hi guys, im really curious about something...

Most term with CI rider only covers you till 65... and they are expensive
ILP also offers CI/ECI

I havent done the maths and stuffs, but im just thinking... for those who say buy term and invest the rest, what happens if you kenna CI/ECI after 65? I dont think health shield insurance can cover everything right? Cannot be let your CI/ECI case wipe out all your years of investing moolahs?

Just wanna learn how you guys migitate your risk towards CI/ECIs... because according to my friend, he read a lot, he also wanted to do BTIR... in the end he went ILP, coz he say ILP will cover all the way till you die... mortality charges is freakking ex but at least you're still covered in a way....

correct me if im wrong. when you get CI/ECI, u simply get a payout when you kena those dieseases, your integrated shield plan on the other hand is to pay for your medical fees.
 

JuniorLion

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correct me if im wrong. when you get CI/ECI, u simply get a payout when you kena those dieseases, your integrated shield plan on the other hand is to pay for your medical fees.

Yes, you are exactly right.

Regarding the "medical fees", BBCWatcher will provide a complete description of what the payment entails and what qualifies/do not qualify.
 

parallelyy

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Hi guys, im really curious about something...

Most term with CI rider only covers you till 65... and they are expensive
ILP also offers CI/ECI

I havent done the maths and stuffs, but im just thinking... for those who say buy term and invest the rest, what happens if you kenna CI/ECI after 65? I dont think health shield insurance can cover everything right? Cannot be let your CI/ECI case wipe out all your years of investing moolahs?

Just wanna learn how you guys migitate your risk towards CI/ECIs... because according to my friend, he read a lot, he also wanted to do BTIR... in the end he went ILP, coz he say ILP will cover all the way till you die... mortality charges is freakking ex but at least you're still covered in a way....

There is also whole life plans as an option to get covered beyond 65, you don't necessary have to choose ILP
 

Bigoya

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Hi guys, im really curious about something...

Most term with CI rider only covers you till 65... and they are expensive
ILP also offers CI/ECI

I havent done the maths and stuffs, but im just thinking... for those who say buy term and invest the rest, what happens if you kenna CI/ECI after 65? I dont think health shield insurance can cover everything right? Cannot be let your CI/ECI case wipe out all your years of investing moolahs?

Just wanna learn how you guys migitate your risk towards CI/ECIs... because according to my friend, he read a lot, he also wanted to do BTIR... in the end he went ILP, coz he say ILP will cover all the way till you die... mortality charges is freakking ex but at least you're still covered in a way....

What have I been reading?

"Most term with CI rider only covers you till 65... and they are expensive
ILP also offers CI/ECI"


Time to debunk some myths, I guess?

Firstly, a decent coverage for someone random Age 26 ANB cost $1.1k to be covered till age 65 ANB. How is that expensive?
zT62Dxh.png


Secondly, regardless of death, TPD, CI or CI, anyone can be covered till ANB 99. Who's limiting coverage at 65?
AEQecs7.png


"I havent done the maths and stuffs, but im just thinking... for those who say buy term and invest the rest, what happens if you kenna CI/ECI after 65? I dont think health shield insurance can cover everything right? Cannot be let your CI/ECI case wipe out all your years of investing moolahs?"

Depends on how much you are investing (IR) and how your investment performs, you may or not have sufficient returns to actually self-insure.
If you have to claim insurance eventually, thank God you are covered for.
But on the opposite side, if you live a healthy life with no chance of claiming, you might have the advantage of spending all the money you've grown through investments rather than throwing them into the drain over the last 30 to 40 years.

Pros and Cons and different perspectives for your reference.

"Just wanna learn how you guys migitate your risk towards CI/ECIs... because according to my friend, he read a lot, he also wanted to do BTIR... in the end he went ILP, coz he say ILP will cover all the way till you die... mortality charges is freakking ex but at least you're still covered in a way...."

Either your friend's an agent, or there's blindspot(s) left uncovered.
 
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dendii

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There are term insurances with ECI/CI rider that covers beyond 65 and still more affordable than ILP so i am not sure why your friend said that.

There are also whole life coverages with ECI/CI rider that provides life coverage without the increasing mortality charge and is also more affordable than ILP. Plus it has a guaranteed cash value component whereas ILP has none.

Your confusion is as good as mine because even though i do investment myself, i cannot understand why one will BTIR and yet in the end, use the investment to cover for loss of income due to CI.

I do not believe in the saying of not needing coverage after 65. As long as you have children, or married, or have parents, you will need coverage throughout unless you are planning for your loved ones to help cover for you financially.

Only 2 reasons i can think of:
1) They feel getting CI after 65 means you are likely going to die so might as well just take out investment and YOLO already.

2) They feel their investments will compound with such a good return that the additional premium used to cover beyond 65 makes a extremely big difference in the compounding effect.

Regardless, dont follow any opinions blindly

Hi guys, im really curious about something...

Most term with CI rider only covers you till 65... and they are expensive
ILP also offers CI/ECI

I havent done the maths and stuffs, but im just thinking... for those who say buy term and invest the rest, what happens if you kenna CI/ECI after 65? I dont think health shield insurance can cover everything right? Cannot be let your CI/ECI case wipe out all your years of investing moolahs?

Just wanna learn how you guys migitate your risk towards CI/ECIs... because according to my friend, he read a lot, he also wanted to do BTIR... in the end he went ILP, coz he say ILP will cover all the way till you die... mortality charges is freakking ex but at least you're still covered in a way....
 

kediraksith

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What have I been reading?

"Most term with CI rider only covers you till 65... and they are expensive
ILP also offers CI/ECI"


Time to debunk some myths, I guess?

Firstly, a decent coverage for someone random Age 26 ANB cost $1.1k to be covered till age 65 ANB. How is that expensive?
zT62Dxh.png


Secondly, regardless of death, TPD, CI or CI, anyone can be covered till ANB 99. Who's limiting coverage at 65?
AEQecs7.png


"I havent done the maths and stuffs, but im just thinking... for those who say buy term and invest the rest, what happens if you kenna CI/ECI after 65? I dont think health shield insurance can cover everything right? Cannot be let your CI/ECI case wipe out all your years of investing moolahs?"

Depends on how much you are investing (IR) and how your investment performs, you may or not have sufficient returns to actually self-insure.
If you have to claim insurance eventually, thank God you are covered for.
But on the opposite side, if you live a healthy life with no chance of claiming, you might have the advantage of spending all the money you've grown through investments rather than throwing them into the drain over the last 30 to 40 years.

Pros and Cons and different perspectives for your reference.

"Just wanna learn how you guys migitate your risk towards CI/ECIs... because according to my friend, he read a lot, he also wanted to do BTIR... in the end he went ILP, coz he say ILP will cover all the way till you die... mortality charges is freakking ex but at least you're still covered in a way...."

Either your friend's an agent, or there's blindspot(s) left uncovered.




Oooo... I assume thats from Aviva's quote right?

I mean, there's term to 99 for CI yes, but its quite ex, at least to me. From your quote, its $4k+... Term to 65 is cheap yes... but you havent really explained... what happens if you kenna a CI after 65? How do you migitate that?

Correct me if im wrong (which I think i am thats why im here)... People are saying term to 65 with CI/ECI coz you are still "young" and working so should anything happen, at least you're covered... So by saying this, means usually after 65... if you get CI, you can more or less prepare to "go" and dun bother covering?

Another reason im asking is because I still dont full grasp how medical health shield works... Im currently with PRUshield with cash component, so I do not have to pay a single cent at all if im hospitalized... Im also covered for treatments for the next... 6 months I think? So what happens if i get a long term CI like Kidney failure, cancers, stroke where treatments last more than 6 months, most prolly till I die? In such cases medical health shield wont cover right? And high chances this will also wipe out all my investments for retirement as time goes on right?

Or... the whole idea about building "retirement" funds is to basically, tackle this eventuality when we grow old?


EDIT:

My friend not agent... i see him as more... knowledgeable when it comes to finances so im quite surprised he went to ILP route. He recommended his agent to me now and we've talked... Long story short, he's convinced that the investment made in ILP can cover mortality charges with CI/ECI till he die.

I also talked to my agent who is asking me to Term to 65 nia... also shun bian sign up for annuity plan... basically same as saving money with guaranteed capital...projected returns at 4.75%... I did say why do I need that as I can do my own investments (courtesy of all the gurus here/seedly/moneysense/etc) via ETFs... He say its entirely up to me, but ETFs and stuffs if market is bad I could still make a loss... Well.. he has a point though...

Currently as I arm myself with more knowledge my thinking will change, so right now I reviewing my insurances and see if what should go what should stay... my medical shield should definately stay... and im considering to let go my ILP
 
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Bigoya

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Oooo... I assume thats from Aviva's quote right?

Yes.

I mean, there's term to 99 for CI yes, but its quite ex, at least to me. From your quote, its $4k+... Term to 65 is cheap yes... but you havent really explained... what happens if you kenna a CI after 65? How do you migitate that?

"I havent done the maths and stuffs, but im just thinking... for those who say buy term and invest the rest, what happens if you kenna CI/ECI after 65? I dont think health shield insurance can cover everything right? Cannot be let your CI/ECI case wipe out all your years of investing moolahs?"

Depends on how much you are investing (IR) and how your investment performs, you may or not have sufficient returns to actually self-insure.
If you have to claim insurance eventually, thank God you are covered for.
But on the opposite side, if you live a healthy life with no chance of claiming, you might have the advantage of spending all the money you've grown through investments rather than throwing them into the drain over the last 30 to 40 years.

Pros and Cons and different perspectives for your reference.


It's been replied. I'm not saying it's bad, just asking what would actually work better for you.

In the case of ILP, premiums are gonna be costly as you gets older as well since premiums are non-level (tagged to age). Can you guarantee your investment portion could profit enough to cover future mortality charges?If not, it means you'd actually need to top-up cash JUST TO keep your coverage going, which would be higher than the $4k+ quoted for coverage to 99 for same SA.

I don't see a point for that.


Correct me if im wrong (which I think i am thats why im here)... People are saying term to 65 with CI/ECI coz you are still "young" and working so should anything happen, at least you're covered... So by saying this, means usually after 65... if you get CI, you can more or less prepare to "go" and dun bother covering?

N-O-NO.
During working age it IS important to protect your potential lost of income in the event of CI. ECI not likely to make you loose your job. Therefore,
before 65 (current retirement age), it IS important to PROTECT this period.
However, if you could BTIR or whatsoever, save some excess unecessary premiums to invest (provided you are savvy with investment), you could potentially make a lot of out of the premiums saved.
So if u suay kena CI at age 70, you can self-insure. Otherwise, you could spend the money on a few lamborginis or whatever you can afford.

On a contrary for paying too much into insurance till age 99, over the next 60+ years due to inflation, the payout of sum assured is gonna dimish to something insignificant eventually especially for small payout. You might end up questioning what you could really do with the money on hand.
And if payout is not triggered, all the premiums paid over the years goes to the drain and into the ocean. Period.


Another reason im asking is because I still dont full grasp how medical health shield works... Im currently with PRUshield with cash component, so I do not have to pay a single cent at all if im hospitalized... Im also covered for treatments for the next... 6 months I think? So what happens if i get a long term CI like Kidney failure, cancers, stroke where treatments last more than 6 months, most prolly till I die? In such cases medical health shield wont cover right? And high chances this will also wipe out all my investments for retirement as time goes on right?

Or... the whole idea about building "retirement" funds is to basically, tackle this eventuality when we grow old?


EDIT:

My friend not agent... i see him as more... knowledgeable when it comes to finances so im quite surprised he went to ILP route. He recommended his agent to me now and we've talked... Long story short, he's convinced that the investment made in ILP can cover mortality charges with CI/ECI till he die.

I also talked to my agent who is asking me to Term to 65 nia... also shun bian sign up for annuity plan... basically same as saving money with guaranteed capital...projected returns at 4.75%... I did say why do I need that as I can do my own investments (courtesy of all the gurus here/seedly/moneysense/etc) via ETFs... He say its entirely up to me, but ETFs and stuffs if market is bad I could still make a loss... Well.. he has a point though...

Currently as I arm myself with more knowledge my thinking will change, so right now I reviewing my insurances and see if what should go what should stay... my medical shield should definately stay... and im considering to let go my ILP

the story is too long... as much as I'd like to touch on every single aspects you've brought up, i think there's gonna be too much ding dongs here and there to be typed out.

I'd suggest a face to face discussion with agent(s) you trust instead for a really thorough discussion on financial planning.
 
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akwl88

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Coverage and adequate coverage are 2 diff things.

Find out what is time value of money and use this for coverage amt.

If you kenna ci after 65 without insurance liao, only way is to tap on your retirement fund, savings, medishield life, integrated shield plan etc

"ILP cover all the way till you die", 1st time i heard this joke haha
 

kediraksith

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the story is too long... as much as I'd like to touch on every single aspects you've brought up, i think there's gonna be too much ding dongs here and there to be typed out.

I'd suggest a face to face discussion with agent(s) you trust instead for a really thorough discussion on financial planning.
Your replies have helped me clear up quite a bit of confusion... I still feel coverage to 65 is not enough... I dont intend to get married or start a family so death is kinda pointless for me...

Perhaps I can cover ECI/CI to just 70 or 75... by then I should have enough to protect myself against stuffs...

And the thing is, I never really fully trusted agents. To me, they are afterall a salesman, and their commission/income is almost always placed first instead of the client... the only difference is how much they are willing to push sales... Thats the main reason why I finally bother to start looking and reading up on financial stuffs... I dont wan to be lead blindly.
 
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BBCWatcher

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Term to 65 is cheap yes... but you havent really explained... what happens if you kenna a CI after 65? How do you migitate that?
Easy answer: you're screwed. :D But that's not the only way you can be screwed. Let's start with what "Critical Illness" coverage is and isn't.

CI pays the policyholder when that policyholder experiences some specific calamity that's on the insurer's short list. Here's the "standard" list of 37 calamities, but policies can deviate from that LIA standard. (Check the fine print.) Enhanced Critical Illness (ECI) just expands the coverage in certain narrow ways, as the insurer defines it. CI/ECI is what I would call "cause-based" coverage, not really need-based (or outcome-based). It's "defined risks" coverage, not "all risks." Get a particular type of cancer, you're covered. Get run over by a bus, you're not, even if your financial needs are substantially the same in either event (can't work, need replacement income, maybe need some home/nursing care).

In Singapore, CI traditionally, notionally serves as income replacement insurance, and so that's why it stops at age 65 (a common retirement age). It's flawed income replacement insurance, but it very crudely serves that role in terms of market positioning.

If you don't like CI/ECI -- and I don't, for the record -- then you've got some other options (in combination):

1. Medical insurance covers, well, medical bills. In Singapore these are mainly Integrated Shield plans with optional riders (and barebones MediShield Life underneath). These cover acute care needs pretty well.

2. Disability income insurance (DII) provides genuine income replacement if you are disabled and unable to work (or only partially able to work). This coverage is "expensive" because it actually pays no matter what the cause(s) of your disability, with very, very few exceptions. ("Act of War" kind of exceptions.) Examples of DII in Singapore are Great Eastern's Pay Assure, Aviva's IdealIncome, and AIA's Premier Disability Cover. These policies are relatively recent innovations in Singapore (a problem for Singapore's long suffering financial consumers), but they're quite common around the world -- and the basic concept dates back to the 1700s in a few countries.

3. Long-Term Care Insurance (LTCI) pays out if you are unable to perform at least 3 (or at least 2, as an extra cost coverage option) of the 6 "Activities of Daily Living," as the policy defines them. In Singapore, ElderShield and ElderShield supplements are the most common LTCIs, available from three carriers. Once fully paid, ElderShield coverage is for life, but the base ElderShield policy will not pay for life even if the disability continues. ElderShield supplements are available to extend payouts to life, for as long as the "3 (or 2) out of 6" criterion is met. Another problem with ElderShield is that you cannot buy it until age 40.

4. "Total and Permanent Disability" (TPD) coverage, which pays a benefit if you experience a profound disability, as its name suggests. TPD is bundled with life insurance in Singapore.

5. "Personal Accident Insurance" pays out if you experience an accident, as the policy defines it. This is another cause-specific coverage, again not something I like.

6. Cash (savings) always works to solve financial needs, if you have enough cash.

DII tends to have the most reasonable (broadest) definition of disability, then LTCI, then the rest (which have lots of holes).

So, if you feel you need coverage before and after age 65, have a look at #1 (in public hospital form, I would strongly argue -- the private system is fundamentally broken right now), DII, ElderShield (and its supplements), and, of course, #6 on this list.
 

kediraksith

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Easy answer: you're screwed. :D But that's not the only way you can be screwed. Let's start with what "Critical Illness" coverage is and isn't.

CI pays the policyholder when that policyholder experiences some specific calamity that's on the insurer's short list. Here's the "standard" list of 37 calamities, but policies can deviate from that LIA standard. (Check the fine print.) Enhanced Critical Illness (ECI) just expands the coverage in certain narrow ways, as the insurer defines it. CI/ECI is what I would call "cause-based" coverage, not really need-based (or outcome-based). It's "defined risks" coverage, not "all risks." Get a particular type of cancer, you're covered. Get run over by a bus, you're not, even if your financial needs are substantially the same in either event (can't work, need replacement income, maybe need some home/nursing care).

In Singapore, CI traditionally, notionally serves as income replacement insurance, and so that's why it stops at age 65 (a common retirement age). It's flawed income replacement insurance, but it very crudely serves that role in terms of market positioning.

If you don't like CI/ECI -- and I don't, for the record -- then you've got some other options (in combination):

1. Medical insurance covers, well, medical bills. In Singapore these are mainly Integrated Shield plans with optional riders (and barebones MediShield Life underneath). These cover acute care needs pretty well.

2. Disability income insurance (DII) provides genuine income replacement if you are disabled and unable to work (or only partially able to work). This coverage is "expensive" because it actually pays no matter what the cause(s) of your disability, with very, very few exceptions. ("Act of War" kind of exceptions.) Examples of DII in Singapore are Great Eastern's Pay Assure, Aviva's IdealIncome, and AIA's Premier Disability Cover. These policies are relatively recent innovations in Singapore (a problem for Singapore's long suffering financial consumers), but they're quite common around the world -- and the basic concept dates back to the 1700s in a few countries.

3. Long-Term Care Insurance (LTCI) pays out if you are unable to perform at least 3 (or at least 2, as an extra cost coverage option) of the 6 "Activities of Daily Living," as the policy defines them. In Singapore, ElderShield and ElderShield supplements are the most common LTCIs, available from three carriers. Once fully paid, ElderShield coverage is for life, but the base ElderShield policy will not pay for life even if the disability continues. ElderShield supplements are available to extend payouts to life, for as long as the "3 (or 2) out of 6" criterion is met. Another problem with ElderShield is that you cannot buy it until age 40.

4. "Total and Permanent Disability" (TPD) coverage, which pays a benefit if you experience a profound disability, as its name suggests. TPD is bundled with life insurance in Singapore.

5. "Personal Accident Insurance" pays out if you experience an accident, as the policy defines it. This is another cause-specific coverage, again not something I like.

6. Cash (savings) always works to solve financial needs, if you have enough cash.

DII tends to have the most reasonable (broadest) definition of disability, then LTCI, then the rest (which have lots of holes).

So, if you feel you need coverage before and after age 65, have a look at #1 (in public hospital form, I would strongly argue -- the private system is fundamentally broken right now), DII, ElderShield (and its supplements), and, of course, #6 on this list.



Awesome reply... although i keep re-reading your post as, the newbie brain of mine still trying to make sense of it...

Actually, what does DI covers exactly? Im under the impression that for example, I get some cancer, i can still go about my daily life, not disabled... I wont get any benefits from DI right? But if i have CI I will have payouts to help right?
 
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