Advise on HDB / CONDO prospect

demonqiyue

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Hi everyone,

would like to get some help on this issue.

1) Will it be better to buy a flat with your parent (HDB / Condo)?
2) Stay at relative house till you are able to purchase your own flat (HDB / Condo)

Above issue is considering background facts of parent being divorced and either parent are unable to afford any housing alone (Cannot take bank / hdb loan)

what will be the best decision for you to make in respect that you would like to stay alone in the future.
 

Mecisteus

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It depends on what is your conscience really is.

There was 1 guy who said he rented out his condo while staying for free at the relative's house or paying below market rental rate.
 

BBCWatcher

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However you pay for housing -- and it's all just variations on how you pay for housing (people get way too animated about that topic) -- it's more cost efficient to have one consolidated household rather than two. There are certain fixed costs to running a household, and if those fixed costs are shared, that benefits the whole household. How those cost savings are distributed within the household is, of course, up to the household members.

So start from that foundational reality. If you're looking for cost efficiency in housing -- a popular objective in high housing cost Singapore -- then having one combined household instead of two is helpful. Are there other considerations arguing against having one combined household?

The question of how to pay for housing is largely a separate question. I happen to think the government's HDB BTO offer is still a good offer to accept, as long as you don't go overboard and get a unit that's too much to handle. HDB is a subsidized, often heavily subsidized, way to pay for housing, specifically to rent a unit for 99 years from the government with certain covenants and ongoing common expenses that are subject to change. Beyond that, in today's real estate markets (interest rate trends, government policies, etc.), it's less clear. However, it's always true that buying a leasehold or freehold requires some significant fixed transaction and other costs. You should not incur those heavy fixed costs if you don't have the realistic intention to keep the leasehold or freehold for at least several years. For example, and to be morbid for a moment, if your parent is going to die within a few years, it doesn't really make much sense to buy a 99 year leasehold or freehold tailored to that parent's needs. It usually makes more sense to get a 1 or 2 year leasehold instead, until your housing needs are more stable for a longer period of time.
 

demonqiyue

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Hi bbcwatcher,

what the concern is since not looking into marriage therefore most likely unable to BTO (Unless 2 room flat) but let say if work + savings with about 200k++ of CPF + Cash at age 35 will it be better to buy a 1+1 / 2 bed condo at about 600k-800k for own stay(without parent) till die or HDB? If happen to have a GF the GF could stay with me etc etc but planned to stay alone instead with parent. what will be the ideal choice to proceed?
 

aarontansp

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My suggestion-

Get a HDB with your parent name + yours (you must be the co-owner)
When parent passes away, you are the sole owner of the hdb flat.
- less financial burden

Lookout for condo - if you intend to upgrade or live in condo in future.
When the time comes, rent out HDB and move to condo live by yourself or with parents (if they're still alive).


Once you get a condo first, you can no longer own a hdb unless you sell away condo.
 

quailmaster

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Seems like you are deciding between resale HDB and small condo. In short owning a condo has less restrictions on buying, selling and rental
HDB has cheaper psf but more restrictions.. fulfill 5 year MOP, during 5 year MOP cannot rent out entire flat etc

https://btoresaleorcondo.com/hdb-vs-condo/
 
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01asdf

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I'd go with (2) for greater flexibility if it's a relatively short period of time.

Even if you choose to live together, it's just simply more flexible to not have the property in both your names in case you want to sell it in future.

You have the option of getting a resale flat even if you don't BTO.
 

BBCWatcher

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It's really hard to be more specific without more information, but it sounds like a "Gee, I've some money piling up, should I spend most or all of it?" sort of question. So here are a few more questions for demonqiyue:

1. Where are you living now? With your parent? How's it going? What are the problems, if any, with the status quo?

2. Are you in a serious relationship that could develop into something more serious?

3. Have you nailed down the "big two" (in your case, since you evidently have no dependents) genuine insurance necessities yet?

4. Is there any prospect your parent will become financially dependent on you, or is your parent financially secure already, for life?

5. Excluding disability (see #3), what is your conservative forecast for your future earning potential? Do you expect to be working until age 65, for example, and earning a steady real income (i.e. an income that keeps pace with inflation)?

6. How well are you doing so far toward your own retirement savings goals?

By the way, I don't see a living problem with a 2 room HDB BTO. It's a great pad for a bachelor or a couple. There's an income ceiling of $6,000/month, and you're less likely to meet the income ceiling as your career progresses, as a reasonable assumption. And the BTO offer is the most attractive one, financially. So for all those reasons I'd keep this choice on the short list, pending clarification.
 

demonqiyue

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It's really hard to be more specific without more information, but it sounds like a "Gee, I've some money piling up, should I spend most or all of it?" sort of question. So here are a few more questions for demonqiyue:

1. Where are you living now? With your parent? How's it going? What are the problems, if any, with the status quo?

HDB 3 room but selling off as divorcing

2. Are you in a serious relationship that could develop into something more serious?

May have a relationship but no plans for marriage

3. Have you nailed down the "big two" (in your case, since you evidently have no dependents) genuine insurance necessities yet?

Since no dependents therefore no need to have any insurance except hospitalization

4. Is there any prospect your parent will become financially dependent on you, or is your parent financially secure already, for life?

Most likely depend on me but I wish to not care about it(Not gonna care about parent) since its parent choose not to save up and spend on gambling.

5. Excluding disability (see #3), what is your conservative forecast for your future earning potential? Do you expect to be working until age 65, for example, and earning a steady real income (i.e. an income that keeps pace with inflation)?

I do not mind keep working (if my body allows to)

6. How well are you doing so far toward your own retirement savings goals?

My plans were to stay in a 1+1 / 2 bed condo alone (or with GF if have) and have about 2.5k-3k income when retirement. (Hopefully able to fully paid condo before retirement so only maintenance fee + utility is a monthly expenses)

By the way, I don't see a living problem with a 2 room HDB BTO. It's a great pad for a bachelor or a couple. There's an income ceiling of $6,000/month, and you're less likely to meet the income ceiling as your career progresses, as a reasonable assumption. And the BTO offer is the most attractive one, financially. So for all those reasons I'd keep this choice on the short list, pending clarification.

Replied accordingly to your questions.
 

henrylbh

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Hi everyone,

would like to get some help on this issue.

1) Will it be better to buy a flat with your parent (HDB / Condo)?
2) Stay at relative house till you are able to purchase your own flat (HDB / Condo)

Above issue is considering background facts of parent being divorced and either parent are unable to afford any housing alone (Cannot take bank / hdb loan)

what will be the best decision for you to make in respect that you would like to stay alone in the future.

Hi bbcwatcher,

what the concern is since not looking into marriage therefore most likely unable to BTO (Unless 2 room flat) but let say if work + savings with about 200k++ of CPF + Cash at age 35 will it be better to buy a 1+1 / 2 bed condo at about 600k-800k for own stay(without parent) till die or HDB? If happen to have a GF the GF could stay with me etc etc but planned to stay alone instead with parent. what will be the ideal choice to proceed?

First you did not mention where and who you are staying with presently.

Second, you mentioned that parents are divorced and cannot afford any housing alone.

Then you mentioned like you can afford 600k - 800k to buy property for own stay (without parent/s) or with GF.

If you decide to stay without parent/s, what's your issue in buying any property?
 

demonqiyue

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First you did not mention where and who you are staying with presently.

Second, you mentioned that parents are divorced and cannot afford any housing alone.

Then you mentioned like you can afford 600k - 800k to buy property for own stay (without parent/s) or with GF.

If you decide to stay without parent/s, what's your issue in buying any property?

currently staying with parent need my name for loan for next house if I buy with parent.

buying my own property when age 35. so therefore is either I stay at friend house / relative house / road side or buy with parent and tied down.
 

quailmaster

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Seems like you prefer to live apart from your parents.. if u have the resources can buy a 1 BR condo now.. or can wait till 35 to buy HDB bto or resale.. for 1 br condo, there are quite a few resale condo near Aljunied MRT around 600k to 700k
 

BBCWatcher

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HDB 3 room but selling off as divorcing
OK, so where is your parent going to live after the sale?

May have a relationship but no plans for marriage
A partnership does not require legal marriage. Some of the most durable, enduring partnerships are between two people who never marry. That includes same sex couples who cannot marry in Singapore, at least. (They can legally marry elsewhere but with no legal effect to those marriages in Singapore.)

My question is really focused on whether you expect to have a partner in your life that you care about, and whether you will be dependent on each other. Whether you get married or not is not my question.

Since no dependents therefore no need to have any insurance except hospitalization
No, not in my view. Your life plan critically depends on your future earning potential, and so the other "big two" insurance is Disability Income Insurance (DII). You may have a couple million dollars of lifetime earnings ahead of you...or not if you were to become disabled tomorrow and unable to earn any of it.

Most likely depend on me but I wish to not care about it(Not gonna care about parent) since its parent choose not to save up and spend on gambling.
OK, but the reality is that you will care, because you're human. So I suggest topping up that parent's CPF Retirement Account (I assume this parent is age 55 or older; Special Account if below 55) for up to $7,000 now, with tax relief for you, and keep doing that every January. That'll put a lifetime income floor below that parent from age 65, and that'll be that.

I agree that it also sounds like you want to get out of the house. OK then, assuming that's financially viable, let's assume that.

I do not mind keep working (if my body allows to)
OK, and see above re: DII.

My plans were to stay in a 1+1 / 2 bed condo alone (or with GF if have) and have about 2.5k-3k income when retirement. (Hopefully able to fully paid condo before retirement so only maintenance fee + utility is a monthly expenses)
The safer, smarter play is to accept the government's generosity on a HDB BTO since that's such a heavy subsidy and too tempting to pass up, in my view. That puts you in a nice bachelor or couple pad with a 99 year leasehold, and you're housing secure for life. After the 5 year MOP you can take stock of where you're at in life.

A private condo simply means you spend a lot more to put a roof over your head. Is that a good idea? Not now when you're trying to get out of the house and into a place of your own (and will have to get out of the house since it's being sold), not when the government is dangling such an interesting offer (and when your income is below the $6,000 cut-off, I assume), and not when you are still wealth challenged. (It seems like you've got basically zero toward retirement, aside from compulsory CPF. Is that correct?)

So, I'd try living on your own (1 year lease probably) and put in for your HDB BTO (2 room Type 2, presumably) when you're eligible (35th birthday). In the meantime, get into a savings habit, and yes, I'd close that insurance gap. I'd also try to scrape together $7K and make that top-up to your parent's SA/RA this month, so you can get some 2018 tax relief for it. And you're probably going to feel miserable doing that, but hey, it's your parent. It just comes with the territory, and that's the best thing you can do both for your parent and for yourself.

I'm keeping an open mind pending more information, but that's my current thinking based on the available information.

How far away are you from age 35 (and HDB eligibility), if you don't mind me asking?
 
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Toni90

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Stay with relative then buy the BTO lah. Parents like this still want to buy condo.
 

Mecisteus

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Actually it all boils down to whether you think now is a good time to buy a property.

If I were you, I will just stay with a relative first. Try to negotiate a good rate with them.

Save up and wait for the right time to make the killing buy.

You probably have 1 chance to buy at the right price. And the price you pay affects your returns.
 

dork32

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If I were you, I will just stay with a relative first. Try to negotiate a good rate with them.

Save up and wait for the right time to make the killing buy.
yes timing is important. but problem is you never really know it is the real right time to buy.
 

demonqiyue

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Put it in conclusion, there is only 2 choice to go with.

1) Buy another resale HDB with my parent (Being tied up)
2) Stay at relative house till age 35 (While saving up buy condo/hdb at age 35)
 

BBCWatcher

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Put it in conclusion, there is only 2 choice to go with.
1) Buy another resale HDB with my parent (Being tied up)
2) Stay at relative house till age 35 (While saving up buy condo/hdb at age 35)
No, you're not required to stay at a relative's home. You're earning an income from work, and plenty of working people rent housing on the open market. You could do that.

If the home you're living in now will soon be sold, and if you don't have an enforceable rental agreement to continue living in that home, then yes, you'll have to find another roof over your head. That much is true.

Welcome to adulthood, belatedly. ;)
 
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BBCWatcher

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Save up and wait for the right time to make the killing buy.
You probably have 1 chance to buy at the right price. And the price you pay affects your returns.

yes timing is important. but problem is you never really know it is the real right time to buy.
I agree with Dork. This is a bit silly, Mike, and we can safely abandon the notion. Demonqiyue is not a real estate tycoon with 68 properties spread across two continents, plenty of working capital, and a team of research analysts who think they understand purchase timing.

How about 35th birthday, HDB BTO, 2 room Type 2? That's great timing and a reliably great deal if offered (income ceiling). In the meantime, rent, either from another relative or on the open market.
 

Mecisteus

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yes timing is important. but problem is you never really know it is the real right time to buy.

Just use a simple 10% or 20% correction in property index to make your purchase decision?

I don't think it is so difficult to monitor.

The only difficult part is controlling the mindset.
 
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