Air conditioning - Any recommendations please??

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cannotliao

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Gain city having aircon promo.
Got panasonic system 3 inverter - for $2786
Pay $120 to upgrade insulation to half inch.

GC giving $250 NTUC/SHELL/CHOICE vouchers.
Panasonic giving $100 NTUC vouchers.

Total price with better insulation = $2906 - $350 = $2556

saw this lobang at renotalk dot com
 

chunlianghere

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hm... perhaps Chunliang was right afterall... but then... my old Fujitsu was using R22... anyhow, that's in the past! yhew!

Daikin eh? hm... I guess i'd try Daikin next.... hopefully over 10 years later. :s13:

with regards to performance, any significant diff betw R22 & R410a? i've read claims that R410a is more efficient as a refridgerant, what's your opinion?
Chunliang, any thoughts on this?:s8:
yup..r410a is more efficient. as previous post mention, drainage pipe hav to be insulated due to the extreme coldness after r410a came out. from wat i tink tat r410a is faster in changing from hot high pressure to cold low pressure, n when it arrived to evapourator(fcu), the temp is alot lower than r22. therefore it cools the room faster becos of lower temp ba.
*edit: tats y i was wondering inverter total btu is always higher than non-inverter for many brand/model. i mean multi split.

so if u were to compare non-inverter of r22 n r410a, r410a is efficient to r22.

but maintenance wise, r22 is better as terumo said.

correct me if there's wrong.:s8:

Since there is a possibility of terumo being an air-con contractor or in the air-con business, I am not sure whether there is any "conflict of interest" or "spoil the market" or "breach of any regulations" with revealing what my ID's air-con contractor has quoted me.

I received his quotation via e-mail. He qouted me a price with all these :
(1) Panas0nic Multi Split unit model : CU-3C20JKZ X 1,
(2) Panas0nic Model : CS-C9JKZW fan coils X 3,
quotation includes supply and installation charges, includes trunking, copper pipes, Thermosflex insulation CIs (3/4" with 3 years warranty)
(3) This quotation not includes power supply.

Can I ask what is meant by this "does not include power supply"?? What does he mean by the "power supply"?? :)

Also, Thermosflex is better than Armaflex, right?? :)

Sorry, almost forgot to mention that my air-con contractor SMS last night that I will get the NTUC vouchers.

Guess I will sign the quotation with him, since his offer is better than the other contractors, which I have asked to come take a look at my 4-room HDB. :)

If one is interested to know what price, do PM me. I don't wish to get into any form of trouble with revealing the price here. :)

And if you find it cheap and interested to install for your home, I can recommend the air-con contractor to you.

Sorry, terumo, don't mean to "undercut" you or "spoil your business" here, if you are really in the air-con business. :)
"does not include power supply" means socket installation for aircon is not included. which i mean the female round pin used for high power consumption.
 
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thesingingbard

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Since there is a possibility of terumo being an air-con contractor or in the air-con business, I am not sure whether there is any "conflict of interest" or "spoil the market" or "breach of any regulations" with revealing what my ID's air-con contractor has quoted me. :)

I received his quotation via e-mail. He qouted me a price with all these :
(1) Panas0nic Multi Split unit model : CU-3C20JKZ X 1,
(2) Panas0nic Model : CS-C9JKZW fan coils X 3,
quotation includes supply and installation charges, includes trunking, copper pipes, Thermosflex insulation CIs (3/4" with 3 years warranty)
(3) This quotation not includes power supply.

Can I ask what is meant by this "does not include power supply"?? What does he mean by the "power supply"?? :)

Also, Thermosflex is better than Armaflex, right?? :)

Sorry, almost forgot to mention that my air-con contractor SMS last night that I will get the NTUC vouchers.

Guess I will sign the quotation with him, since his offer is better than the other contractors, which I have asked to come take a look at my 4-room HDB. :)

If one is interested to know what price, do PM me. I don't wish to get into any form of trouble with revealing the price here. :)

And if you find it cheap and interested to install for your home, I can recommend the air-con contractor to you.

Sorry, terumo, don't mean to "undercut" you or "spoil your business" here, if you are really in the air-con business. :)

a while ago i tried to find out about the specs for Air-Con insulations just to see if my installers were giving me lousy materials. And I found it almost impossible to find any detailed specs on the net, but what i did found out was (if I recall correctly) that ARMAFLEX seems to be the most expensive.

then again most expensive doesn't necessarily mean better quality.

also, ARMAFLEX has a CLASS 0 insulation which I dun see on other insulations.

then again, i'm not even sure if CLASS 0 is better than CLASS 1 or vice-versa. :s11:

Terumo, thoughts? =:p
 

thesingingbard

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yup..r410a is more efficient. as previous post mention, drainage pipe hav to be insulated due to the extreme coldness after r410a came out. from wat i tink tat r410a is faster in changing from hot high pressure to cold low pressure, n when it arrived to evapourator(fcu), the temp is alot lower than r22. therefore it cools the room faster becos of lower temp ba. *edit: tats y i was wondering inverter total btu is always higher than non-inverter for many brand/model. i mean multi split.

so if u were to compare non-inverter of r22 n r410a, r410a is efficient to r22.

but maintenance wise, r22 is better as terumo said.

correct me if there's wrong.:s8:


"does not include power supply" means socket installation for aircon is not included. which i mean the female round pin used for high power consumption.

that is what i thought too! =:p
 

chunlianghere

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a while ago i tried to find out about the specs for Air-Con insulations just to see if my installers were giving me lousy materials. And I found it almost impossible to find any detailed specs on the net, but what i did found out was (if I recall correctly) that ARMAFLEX seems to be the most expensive.

then again most expensive doesn't necessarily mean better quality.

also, ARMAFLEX has a CLASS 0 insulation which I dun see on other insulations.

then again, i'm not even sure if CLASS 0 is better than CLASS 1 or vice-versa. :s11:

Terumo, thoughts? =:p
to wat i tink, CLASS 0 n CLASS 1 is something to do wit fire rating stuff. i know tat CLASS 0 is better resistant to fire, but CLASS 1 lose out abit.

this is wat i get from some spec sheet,
Class O Armaflex now also comes with Microban anti-microbial protection
built-in, offering enhanced resistance against bacteria and mould growth.​
This makes Class O Armaflex suitable for use in offices, schools and hospitals.
so it means tat CLASS 0 hav more things built in.
 
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terumo

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Bro Chunlianghere is right, Class 0 is better in terms of resistant to fire, but we are talking about water droplets from condensation here, so i think Class 0 or Class 1 doesn not make any big difference. Copper piping grade is more important.

To Bro Seahmh, duh worry. I duh advertise my services here. We are all here to share. Any one saw me posting my contact and asking people to contact me? Hee... :)

I just hope more people are aware of basic installation terms and duh pay for "upgrades" here and there which you don't need.
3/8 insulation is enough for normal hdb. If concealed piping, use 1/2.
Drainage 13 or 16mm also can.
Just my views.
 
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seahmh

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Bro Chunlianghere is right, Class 0 is better in terms of resistant to fire, but we are talking about water droplets from condensation here, so i think Class 0 or Class 1 doesn not make any big difference. Copper piping grade is more important.

To Bro Seahmh, duh worry. I duh advertise my services here. We are all here to share. Any one saw me posting my contact and asking people to contact me? Hee... :)

I just hope more people are aware of basic installation terms and duh pay for "upgrades" here and there which you don't need.
3/8 insulation is enough for normal hdb. If concealed piping, use 1/2.
Drainage 13 or 16mm also can.
Just my views.

Hi, terumo,

No. I am not saying that you will or are advertising your services here. I just do not wish to offend you or anyone unknowingly here, as we know sometimes, postings in the cyber-world may get mis-interrupted by others and misunderstanding can arise. :)

No offence to you with my posting.

So, is Thermaflex better or Armaflex better?? :)

I asked around a few friends, all said they only use Armaflex.

The air-con contractor also told me when he came to see my place that he will be using Armaflex insulation. Then when I SMS him about the price, he also replied that he will be using G22, 3/4" Armaflex insulation, but then in his quotation, he quoted Thermaflex, which is why I am quite concerned.

I will definitely double, triple confirm with him again on this Sat before I sign on the quotation and pass him the cheque for deposit.

Hope to seek some advices here on whether Thermaflex (or Thermosflex) is better or Armaflex is better.

To lay-man like myself, since most people say Armaflex better, I will have the thinking that Armaflex is better than Thermaflex.
 

terumo

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Bro Seahmh, no offence.

Armaflex more commonly used.
My views, don't use G22 and 3/4. Use G23 and 3/8 can already. Most 1/2.
Keep the $ to service your aircon next time.
It's too good a material to use.
You getting Pana sys 3 non-invertor? Pricing shld be ard $2.1-$2.2kk for G23 and 3/8 insulation.
If G22 and 3/4 insulation, min $2.3k and above.
If he gives you 3 years warrt, maybe total price you add another $150 for the extended warrt.
 

seahmh

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Bro Seahmh, no offence.

Armaflex more commonly used.
My views, don't use G22 and 3/4. Use G23 and 3/8 can already. Most 1/2.
Keep the $ to service your aircon next time.
It's too good a material to use.
You getting Pana sys 3 non-invertor? Pricing shld be ard $2.1-$2.2kk for G23 and 3/8 insulation.
If G22 and 3/4 insulation, min $2.3k and above.
If he gives you 3 years warrt, maybe total price you add another $150 for the extended warrt.

Hi, Bro terumo,

The air-con contractor quoted me slightly above S$2K and below what you mentioned of "min S$2.3K and above", BUT with Thermaflex and also, he mentioned that Panas0nic has extended the S$100 NTUC vouchers till end of Sept (not sure if it is true), so I will be getting the NTUC vouchers (I will definitely "fight" to make sure I get it.).

Ok, in that case, I will definitely demand for a Armaflex insulation. :)

Thanks very much for your expert and valuable advice. :)

Cheers. :)
 

terumo

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Oh...
IMO, if say a Handphone 1st hand brand new, outside selling for $500, you can walk the whole toa payoh central and find one for say $480, thats ok. Discount of $20.
But if you find one @ $400, what is your initial thoughts?
Is he selling a recond set passing off as new? or export set?
We are stating a product as an example here.
If services + products. installation being service and equipment being product.
Equipment price = air con equipment is more or less the same. Panasonic will sell their air con equipment thru dealers which your air con contractor will get from them. This price is controlled like RRP. Recommended Retail Price.
What the contractor will play around with is the installation.
I don't quite tink giving u G22 piping and 3/4 insulation, he can make a good profit margin out of it.
Unless he takes the jobs and sub contracts it out to Malaysian workers to do which will result in drop in quality.

A gets deal for $2.1k. Equipment costs say $1.3k (assuming).
2.1k - 1.3k = 800.
He takes 300 as commission and gives 500 to B.
B will take the 500 and buy materials (piping/insulation etc) to install the aircon.
Whats left is his profit. So do you think he will buy expensive materials? We base on expensive = good quality products.


I'm not saying that you did not found a good deal or trying to "pour cold water"
Remember, sometimes too good a deal, is too good to be true.
 
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seahmh

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Oh...
IMO, if say a Handphone 1st hand brand new, outside selling for $500, you can walk the whole toa payoh central and find one for say $480, thats ok. Discount of $20.
But if you find one @ $400, what is your initial thoughts?
Is he selling a recond set passing off as new? or export set?
We are stating a product as an example here.
If services + products. installation being service and equipment being product.
Equipment price = air con equipment is more or less the same. Panasonic will sell their air con equipment thru dealers which your air con contractor will get from them. This price is controlled like RRP. Recommended Retail Price.
What the contractor will play around with is the installation.
I don't quite tink giving u G22 piping and 3/4 insulation, he can make a good profit margin out of it.
Unless he takes the jobs and sub contracts it out to Malaysian workers to do which will result in drop in quality.

A gets deal for $2.1k. Equipment costs say $1.3k (assuming).
2.1k - 1.3k = 800.
He takes 300 as commission and gives 500 to B.
B will take the 500 and buy materials (piping/insulation etc) to install the aircon.
Whats left is his profit. So do you think he will buy expensive materials? We base on expensive = good quality products.


I'm not saying that you did not found a good deal or trying to "pour cold water"
Remember, sometimes too good a deal, is too good to be true.

Hi, terumo,

I fully understand your explanation, which is why I was very "concerned" too ( :( ) about his "such a good deal". He quoted me S$2.1K and mentioned that Panas0nic has extended the offer of the S$100 NTUC vouchers till end of this month (I am not sure how true it is), so if I confirm the deal with him these two days, I will still get the S$100 NTUC vouchers.

I will be taking leave on the day he is installing the air-con to try to make sure that he is providing the materials that he promised in his quotation.

Thanks for your valuable advices.
 

terumo

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Great.
The vouchers should be a direct promotion from Panasonic.
 

sunht

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Hi, terumo,

.....He quoted me S$2.1K and mentioned that Panas0nic has extended the offer of the S$100 NTUC vouchers till end of this month (I am not sure how true it is), so if I confirm the deal with him these two days, I will still get the S$100 NTUC vouchers.

I'm not sure about this. Last time I saw it from ST Saturday in Aug, Panasonic has one page ads about their Eco green Air-con and extend the $100 NTUC voucher (the voucher should get from vendor directly instead of from Panasonic) till end of Aug. Unless they extend the promotion again. You may check Saturday's ST to confirm if they have.
 

seahmh

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I'm not sure about this. Last time I saw it from ST Saturday in Aug, Panasonic has one page ads about their Eco green Air-con and extend the $100 NTUC voucher (the voucher should get from vendor directly instead of from Panasonic) till end of Aug. Unless they extend the promotion again. You may check Saturday's ST to confirm if they have.

Hi, sunht,

Thanks for the advice.

But don't think I saw anything about this in yesterday's Saturday ST.

Maybe I have missed it.

I will go look through the papers one more time later.

Thanks. :)

BTW, : off topic: here a bit... Sorry.

Any one has any recommendations for buying lights, e.g. ceilings lights for my living room, my three bed-rooms, my kitchen, also the dimmer lights for my false ceilings??

The contractor broght my wife and I to the so-called "affiliated" lights shops at Balestier Road... Prices not very attractive, I was hoping to look for a third opinion from another light shop. I only know Tai Yong near Selegie Road...

Thanks in advance. :)
 

seahmh

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Oh yah, one more thing, my air-con contractor is trying hard to "invite" me to upgrade to a Panas0nic Invertor, Envio, System 3, think it is the latest model of the Panas0nic Envio Sys 3 Invertor, at S$2980.

Is it worth this price?? I was hoping to ask him for room for negotiations. :)

Thanks. :)
 
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terumo

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Your aircon outdoor unit sit on ledge or s/s bracket?
If no need bracket, $3k is a bit on the high side.
 

LWP6998

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Toshiba aircon

After reading thru the threads left by all of you... finally decided on my Aircon and made my move yesterday...

I bought my Aircon from GC...

It's a Toshiba unit..

Compressor is 24000 BTU model - RAS3M20SACV INVERTER. * 1
INDOOR UNIT * 3
RASM10SKCV - 9000BTU EACH.
costing $2739/-

(including full installation(new pipe, new trunking and patching).

Gave me the choice of $250/- voucher (NTUC or robinson i think)
or
5 years (1+4) warranty by GC. ($359/-)

So i choose the 5yrs warranty to give a peace of mind... if anything spoil, they say will repair, free labour, transports.. blah blah...

I upgrade the piping from the basic to Armaflex (they say is 1/2 inch type). costing $180/-

did not take the servicing package from them as i find it too expensive (something like $70 each time).

Then they were having the promotion.. then my lucky dip gave me yet another $60/- off from the armaflex pipe... so i paid $120/- instead of the original $180/-.

they gave me a lifetime membership too... with 500 + 2800 (each dollar spent is 1 point), therefore is 3300 points (equal to $33/- voucher to offset any future purchase).

they also gave me 28 pieces of Lucky draw coupon... for the F1 race promo stuffs... so if kena lagi worthit... hahah.

(Also help me to dismantle the old Sys 4 at my house, dismantle fee $200/-,
Trade in to GC. $200/-) equal $0/-..

I think that all i could remember off...

So all in all i paid $2859/- in total including GST 7%.

Let me have your comments on my buy....
 

chunlianghere

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After reading thru the threads left by all of you... finally decided on my Aircon and made my move yesterday...

I bought my Aircon from GC...

It's a Toshiba unit..

Compressor is 24000 BTU model - RAS3M20SACV INVERTER. * 1
INDOOR UNIT * 3
RASM10SKCV - 9000BTU EACH.
costing $2739/-

(including full installation(new pipe, new trunking and patching).

Gave me the choice of $250/- voucher (NTUC or robinson i think)
or
5 years (1+4) warranty by GC. ($359/-)

So i choose the 5yrs warranty to give a peace of mind... if anything spoil, they say will repair, free labour, transports.. blah blah...

I upgrade the piping from the basic to Armaflex (they say is 1/2 inch type). costing $180/-

did not take the servicing package from them as i find it too expensive (something like $70 each time).

Then they were having the promotion.. then my lucky dip gave me yet another $60/- off from the armaflex pipe... so i paid $120/- instead of the original $180/-.

they gave me a lifetime membership too... with 500 + 2800 (each dollar spent is 1 point), therefore is 3300 points (equal to $33/- voucher to offset any future purchase).

they also gave me 28 pieces of Lucky draw coupon... for the F1 race promo stuffs... so if kena lagi worthit... hahah.

(Also help me to dismantle the old Sys 4 at my house, dismantle fee $200/-,
Trade in to GC. $200/-) equal $0/-..

I think that all i could remember off...

So all in all i paid $2859/- in total including GST 7%.

Let me have your comments on my buy....
hmm..not bad!

type of copper pipe? G22, G23?

btw do take pic of your installation!:D
 

LWP6998

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hi fellas...

i pass by GC today... so I went to check... yes apparently price went up... it's $3729 for Toshiba Inverter Sys-4 now.

while i got it at $3589... should be early last month bah. :s8:

yesterday at GC at SK, i saw Sys 4 qoute for around $3200.... their dun know what special sales..
 
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