Air conditioning - Any recommendations please??

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itedino

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how do you check whether the aircon installer man installed a brand new Mitsub Electric aircon or a refurbished ones?

For new ones, is there some warranty or guarantee card for customer?

got warranty one with serial model number. no dealer will cheat
 

yamashita

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Ayone has experience to share for Panasonic CU-PS9NKZ (2-tick NEA efficiency) and CS-XS9RKZW (4-tick NEA efficiency)?
 

hahnhahnhahn

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got warranty one with serial model number. no dealer will cheat

So use the serial model number and check in Mitsubishi electric website ? But how to check when the dealer don't want to hand over the guarantee card to you?

https://gua-reg.mitsubishielectric.com.sg/Home/GuaranteeRegistration
 
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terumo

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To hahnhahnhahn,

All companies should hand over the warranty cards to you once payment is made to them.
 

hahnhahnhahn

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To hahnhahnhahn,

All companies should hand over the warranty cards to you once payment is made to them.

We haven't pay them yet as we are testing the aircon. Tried 18deg Celsius but dun feel cold though. Going to get them down and feel it tgt.
 

dachee

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To hahnhahnhahn,

Did you buy from an authorized agent? You want 18 degree in room or from aircon outlet? May not be able to get! Did you size your system correctly? Temperature does not mean comfort.
 
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hahnhahnhahn

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To hahnhahnhahn,

Did you buy from an authorized agent? You want 18 degree in room or from aircon outlet? May not be able to get! Did you size your system correctly? Temperature does not mean comfort.

They are not authorized agent. My ID refer them to us.

We did the testing on Monday night and yesterday evening. We turn on the aircon at 18degree and let it run for 1~2hours but it doesn't feel cold.
Everynight when we sleep we use aircon one (24deg) so we know the difference.
Currently the new ones that are installed are system 4. For these 2 testings, the living room fcu i didn't turn on. I only turned on all three rooms (2 common rooms and master room) as I know the compressor cannot support all 4 fcu at the same time. I also checked the drainage and it was okay (water flows out to the toilet). There was no water leakage along the trunking.

So far, I feel the aircon installer did a good job. I have no issue with them. Just that I want to ensure the aircon is working fine (24deg vs 18deg shld have a difference) before I made the full payment to them.

Not sure is it that we need to top up the aircon gas or need to get Mitsubishi Electric technician down instead to check on the aircon pressure etc..
 

dachee

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They are not authorized agent. My ID refer them to us.

We did the testing on Monday night and yesterday evening. We turn on the aircon at 18degree and let it run for 1~2hours but it doesn't feel cold.
Everynight when we sleep we use aircon one (24deg) so we know the difference.
Currently the new ones that are installed are system 4. For these 2 testings, the living room fcu i didn't turn on. I only turned on all three rooms (2 common rooms and master room) as I know the compressor cannot support all 4 fcu at the same time. I also checked the drainage and it was okay (water flows out to the toilet). There was no water leakage along the trunking.

So far, I feel the aircon installer did a good job. I have no issue with them. Just that I want to ensure the aircon is working fine (24deg vs 18deg shld have a difference) before I made the full payment to them.

Not sure is it that we need to top up the aircon gas or need to get Mitsubishi Electric technician down instead to check on the aircon pressure etc..

Normally, there are many factors that can affect the cooling of the room. It will be good to check the temperature of the cooling fins in the FCU as reference. Then compare that with the standard temperature of your model. This way, the performance of the air conditioner can be assessed. You can search the model for the standard temperature at the FCU fins or call Mitsubishi for help on this temperature. Check should also be made to ensure that the air flow from the FCU is accordance to the specification.

Working on "feeling" can be difficult to resolve. I suggest that payment should not be made yet. There are cases when during installation, workers skipped the air purging and leakage check which can affect the effectiveness of the system and future costly defects.

The above are my option and I hope it is helpful. I feel that it may be better to pay a little bit more to have an authorization dealer so that in the event of a dispute, you still have an upper hand to call the company to review the case.
 

terumo

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To hahnhahnhahn,

If payment is not made, usually they will not hand over the warranty cards to you.

Can get Mitsubishi to come down and assess if the equipment is ok as its under warranty.
 

boopit

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thanks terumo and dachee. also feel that living room needs more than 9k BTU.

I got a new quote:

Daikin inverter system 4 smile series
MKS80QVMG/CTKS25QVM x3 , CTKS50QVM x1
3/8" armaflex insulation (individually insulate)
pure SWG22
16mm pipe with insulation
keystone 3C40/3C70
siroflex sealant
nashua duct tape

$4299

and
Mitsubishi electric starmax inverter system 4 (5 ticks)
MXY4G28VA, MSXFJ10VE X3, MSXYFJ18VE X1
$4499 (the specs same as the above daikin)

what's your opinion?
 

hahnhahnhahn

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Normally, there are many factors that can affect the cooling of the room. It will be good to check the temperature of the cooling fins in the FCU as reference. Then compare that with the standard temperature of your model. This way, the performance of the air conditioner can be assessed. You can search the model for the standard temperature at the FCU fins or call Mitsubishi for help on this temperature. Check should also be made to ensure that the air flow from the FCU is accordance to the specification.

Working on "feeling" can be difficult to resolve. I suggest that payment should not be made yet. There are cases when during installation, workers skipped the air purging and leakage check which can affect the effectiveness of the system and future costly defects.

The above are my option and I hope it is helpful. I feel that it may be better to pay a little bit more to have an authorization dealer so that in the event of a dispute, you still have an upper hand to call the company to review the case.

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I called my aircon installer and he advised me when testing, don't turn on 18 deg at the start for all 3 rooms (2x common rooms and master room), because the compressor is unable to support all at once. He told me I should turn on for example the first room at 21 deg, then wait for a few mins, then turn on the second room at 23 deg, wait for another few mins, then turn on the third room at maybe 25 deg.

I'm going to test my new mitsubishi electric aircon tonight again to try out his method..

@dachee, do you mean I need to check out on this pdf regarding the cooling fins? Looks very chim sia..
http://www.mitsubishielectric.com/semiconductors/files/manuals/cooling.pdf

or this one from GAin city?

https://www.gaincity.com/media/catalog/product/m/e/me_catalogues_3.pdf
 
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terumo

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To hahnhahnhahn,

The way your aircon guys asked you to on the rooms one by one with different temp is technically making no sense.
The compressor is max at 30k btu, his quote states 24k btu.
Even if you on 12k + 9k + 9k = 30k, no issues at all.
The compressor will just operate at Full Load.

If you wish to measure the temp of the air flowing out from the aircon blower, it should be < 15 degrees.
 
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dachee

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I called my aircon installer and he advised me when testing, don't turn on 18 deg at the start for all 3 rooms (2x common rooms and master room), because the compressor is unable to support all at once. He told me I should turn on for example the first room at 21 deg, then wait for a few mins, then turn on the second room at 23 deg, wait for another few mins, then turn on the third room at maybe 25 deg.

I'm going to test my new mitsubishi electric aircon tonight again to try out his method..

@dachee, do you mean I need to check out on this pdf regarding the cooling fins? Looks very chim sia..


or this one from GAin city?

Hi, Have a look at the gaincity mitsubishi catalogues and you will notice the following specification at the bottom of page 29:

Indoor Outdoor
(Different Indoor Model) (Different Outdoor Model)
Cooling : Upper limit 21degree C DB/15degree C WB -10degree C DB
Lower limit 32degree C DB/23degree C WB 46degree C DB

Then read the note below this table in the catalogue.

Sorry, cannot tabulate the texts above.

What the table is saying (if I am not wrong) is that at the upper limit with outside dry bulb temperature (ie normal thermometer temperature) of -10 degree C at the compressor incoming air flow, you will be able to get 21 degree C using a thermometer or 15 degree C with a wet bulb thermometer in the room (normally near the FCU) with airflow set at maximum. Similarly the reading for the lower limit and also what is written on the note below the table in the catalogue.

You may noticed that none of them indicates a dry bulb temperature of 18 degree C. And that is why I asked the question earlier whether 18 degree C is what you want because most air conditioner in Singapore if I am not wrong is unable to reach that temperature. if not wrong the system should ran for 2hours before checking.

The above are my opinion, I hope that it is useful.
 
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dachee

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To hahnhahnhahn,

The way your aircon guys asked you to on the rooms one by one with different temp is technically making no sense.
The compressor is max at 30k btu, his quote states 24k btu.
Even if you on 12k + 9k + 9k = 30k, no issues at all.
The compressor will just operate at Full Load.

If you wish to measure the temp of the air flowing out from the aircon blower, it should be < 15 degrees.

I agreed with terumo that the contractor's recommendation is not appropriate. I don't think Mitsubishi will agrees to it too.
 
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dachee

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To hahnhahnhahn,

Looking at the 2 system configurations that you provided, can it really work? Can you really have a total indoor load more than your outdoor unit? I think there will be some kind of compromise in efficient / cooling.
 
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dachee

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thanks terumo and dachee. also feel that living room needs more than 9k BTU.

I got a new quote:

Daikin inverter system 4 smile series
MKS80QVMG/CTKS25QVM x3 , CTKS50QVM x1
3/8" armaflex insulation (individually insulate)
pure SWG22
16mm pipe with insulation
keystone 3C40/3C70
siroflex sealant
nashua duct tape

$4299

and
Mitsubishi electric starmax inverter system 4 (5 ticks)
MXY4G28VA, MSXFJ10VE X3, MSXYFJ18VE X1
$4499 (the specs same as the above daikin)

what's your opinion?

Hi, Why do you said that the spec are the same. 1) Even for 5 ticks, their consumption are not the same, so are the operating cost. 2) What about the sound level as lowest and full fan?, 3) how about the air flow rate? 4) though, most FCU indicates 9k but what is their actual rating? 5) similarly for the compressor, don't just look at the round number, look at the actual spec rating. 6) you may also wish to check the outdoor unit sound level. 7) and cost as well as warranty. Once you get all these figures, list them in priority of your choice to select which system is suitable for you.

The above are just my opinion. Hope that it is helpful.
 

hahnhahnhahn

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To hahnhahnhahn,

The way your aircon guys asked you to on the rooms one by one with different temp is technically making no sense.
The compressor is max at 30k btu, his quote states 24k btu.
Even if you on 12k + 9k + 9k = 30k, no issues at all.
The compressor will just operate at Full Load.

If you wish to measure the temp of the air flowing out from the aircon blower, it should be < 15 degrees.

Well, just now I tried as per what the aircon man suggested. But when I on the third room, all 3 rooms became not cold. I'm going to get him to check again.

Thanks for pointing out the max load of 30k. This was shared by him also when he came on-site survey. I totally forget about this
 

hahnhahnhahn

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To hahnhahnhahn,

Looking at the 2 system configurations that you provided, can it really work? Can you really have a total indoor load more than your outdoor unit? I think there will be some kind of compromise in efficient / cooling.

dachee, thanks for pointing out. I engaged this aircon installer because I thought my ID recommended one will be good. I'm going to get him to check thoroughly again before making any payment.

Conclusion, I spent three nights test run the aircon and they really are not cold, especially when I on the third room (master room)
 

hahnhahnhahn

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Hi, Have a look at the gaincity mitsubishi catalogues and you will notice the following specification at the bottom of page 29:

Indoor Outdoor
(Different Indoor Model) (Different Outdoor Model)
Cooling : Upper limit 21degree C DB/15degree C WB -10degree C DB
Lower limit 32degree C DB/23degree C WB 46degree C DB

Then read the note below this table in the catalogue.

Sorry, cannot tabulate the texts above.

What the table is saying (if I am not wrong) is that at the upper limit with outside dry bulb temperature (ie normal thermometer temperature) of -10 degree C at the compressor incoming air flow, you will be able to get 21 degree C using a thermometer or 15 degree C with a wet bulb thermometer in the room (normally near the FCU) with airflow set at maximum. Similarly the reading for the lower limit and also what is written on the note below the table in the catalogue.

You may noticed that none of them indicates a dry bulb temperature of 18 degree C. And that is why I asked the question earlier whether 18 degree C is what you want because most air conditioner in Singapore if I am not wrong is unable to reach that temperature. if not wrong the system should ran for 2hours before checking.

The above are my opinion, I hope that it is useful.

Thanks for the pointer, guess worse case scenario I will have to take a thermometer and stand infront of the aircon le.. didn't know aircon test run can be so tedious.. sob sob
 
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