Air conditioning - Any recommendations please??

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wilflare

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haven't turned on my Samsung aircon for a good 5++ years now.
so parents are looking at a total replacement of the aircon system in our 4room HDB flat.

considering Mitsubishi Starmex or Daikin but looking at shops and online, most Starmex seem to be 2 ticks?

looking at either 3/4 units
- Master Bedroom
- Bedroom 1
- Bedroom 2
- Living Room (Pending)

any suggestions?
 

hikarirayzone

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Looking to replace my 15 year old Sanyo system 3.

Currently have 3 indoor units in each of the 3 rooms (1 x SAP-K97GS5A for master bedroom and 2 x SAP-K87GS5A for the 2 remaining bedrooms).

Budget about 3k, if can push to 2.7 or 2.8k will be good.

My house is the old 4-room simplified 84sqm one.

Any recommendations?
 

lovesick009

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hey seniors,

im using a panasonic inverter air con.

but strange thing is. whenever 3 air cons are turn on. one will be just blowing air?

it work well with just two air con being on.

anyone encounter this before?
 

dachee

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Hi, here is my floorplan.
The green outline is area of coverage.
The red indicates hacked wall.
I think for my case 24k BTU might not be oversize due to open concept kitchen + extended living room. What do you think ?

213i0w.jpg

Hi,

In my opinion, an open concept is not good for your air conditioner. This is because there are unnecessary heat source as well as volume of air that you need to keep cool and all this has nothing to do with keeping you comfortable.

The initial cost is going to be much higher so is the running cost.

The open concept would be more efficient with 2 FCUs and if possible have some form of barrier between them for the option of using one or two FCUs.

Even if you do not wish to use an air conditioning barrier between the living and dinning room , you may likely place a barrier between your kitchen and dinner due to the smoke from cooking in future.

Cooling the kitchen is never a good idea. You have lots of heat from this section.

Though the website at: http://www.e2singapore.gov.sg/Households/Saving_Energy_At_Home/aircon.aspx

indicates that you would likely need 51m2X3412/5 = 32k Btu, I feel that basing on just floor area for Btu or kW calculation is not appropriate.

Other Btu calculator websites show lower capacity needed. A one step lesser capacity or even a 24k Btu may be ok depending on the temperature set and the activity in the living room like the number of people and whether you use steam boat or not.

Alternatively as this may mean that you would likely have 2 condensers, ie two system 2 (subject to HDB approval), you can install the air conditioner for the rooms first and have a feel before you proceed with the living room system.

You may after residing in your new house for a while that you may not need air conditioning at this section. Many people with living room air conditioning seldom use it.

The above are my opinion and hope that they are helpful.
 
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exterminazn

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Wanna install extra aircon unit in my room

Current setup is 2 units at separate room connected to a single compressor.....

The compressor is in my room....

Any contractor to recommend to check on following and quote?
1) need to change existing compressor and 2 units?
2) or can I tap on existing compressor and just pay for the extra unit?

Pls pm me....
 

dachee

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Wanna install extra aircon unit in my room

Current setup is 2 units at separate room connected to a single compressor.....

The compressor is in my room....

Any contractor to recommend to check on following and quote?
1) need to change existing compressor and 2 units?
2) or can I tap on existing compressor and just pay for the extra unit?

Pls pm me....

Hi,

Don't understand your below infor, pls explain.

1) need to change existing compressor and 2 units?
2) or can I tap on existing compressor and just pay for the extra unit?
 

exterminazn

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Hi,

Don't understand your below infor, pls explain.

1) need to change existing compressor and 2 units?
2) or can I tap on existing compressor and just pay for the extra unit?

Disregard the above 2 options..... coming to my home to diagnose will settle everything
 

terumo

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To lovesick009,

Should be the sensor (thermistor acting up)
 
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dachee

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not necessary the tick cause seldom use it.. i need it to be reliable.........:D

Hi Warranty has a time factor. For most air conditioner and installation, the warranty is 1 year and 5 years for compressor.

Normally, the equipment is able to last for more than one year ( there have inhouse QC and QA), however poor installation may result in problem within the next few months to a year after installation. If nothing happens within the first one year, the installation will last for many years.

It is therefore important to use your newly installed air conditioner after installation during the warranty period.

The above are my opinion and hope that they are helpful.
 

wilflare

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haven't turned on my Samsung aircon for a good 5++ years now.
so parents are looking at a total replacement of the aircon system in our 4room HDB flat.

considering Mitsubishi Starmex or Daikin but looking at shops and online, most Starmex seem to be 2 ticks?

looking at either 3/4 units
- Master Bedroom
- Bedroom 1
- Bedroom 2
- Living Room (Pending)

any suggestions?

is there a good installer/contractor that you folks recommend?
been reading thru the thread - tons of solid info here :O
 

dachee

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Hi aircon noob here so hope the pros can help me out haha

#1 Can non master bedroom install a single split?
#2 Assuming allowed, what BTU/models are VFM for a smallish bedroom under 45m cube vol?

TIA!

Hi,

1. There is no restriction as to where a single split is installed. However, there may be restriction on the number of power point that your house may be allowed depending on it rules and regulations. In most cases the approval of the number of air conditioner power would likely mean the acceptance of the number of condensers (outdoor units) to be installed.

So, single split can be installed in non master bedroom.

2. Volume of 45m3 would likely use around 5k Btu. This is based solely on the volume and that a temperature different of 10 degree is required. There is not consideration on other factors like window, facing of the rooms, activity and the number of people using the room, etc.

Not all brands provide a 5k Btu model, so you need to get the closest and if possible, get one with COP (cofficient of performance) of 4 to 5 ticks.

Do consider other factors when selecting the model. Price is only one of the factors.

The above are my opinion, hope that they are helpful
 

dachee

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is there a good installer/contractor that you folks recommend?
been reading thru the thread - tons of solid info here :O

StarMex has 2, 3, 4 and 5 ticks. Depending on the model.

In my opinion, don't install air conditioner in your living room. Unless you have a special reason for doing so, you will unlikely use it. Like you mentioned earlier: "haven't turned on my Samsung aircon for a good 5++ years now."

So you would likely need a system 3, system 2+1 single split or 3 single splits. All these depend on the power points that you have the approval to install and the price of the units combination as well as technical factors.

Had spoken to some installer about quality workmanship but it all boils down to profit margin.

In my opinion select the price including installation that you are happy with (in most cases, the lowest is better). Before placing order have the seller agree that the installer will do the following which I had posted previously.

In addition to the below, I had also insist that the installer glue the ends of the insulation tubing to each other rather than just taping it. However, I provide the special glue which the installer does not have.

During the installation of your air conditioner equipment by your contractor, it will come to a time when the gas pipes are to be connected to the condenser and the gas in it will be released to operator the system.

At this stage, there are 4 simple checks that you can do to ensure that your system will last you a long time and avoid expensive repairs.

1. Before the installer connects the gas piping to the condenser and FCU, check that he purge the piping IF he had done brazing on that line. Normally, a "good" installer will pump nitrogen into the pipe while he braze the pipe to ensure that the inside surface of the pipe does not for copper oxide that will affect your system. More information can be found here: http://www.rses.org/assets/rses_jour...4_Nitrogen.pdf

However, if you are using new pipes, than there should be no brazing and only flare fitting joints are used unless installer "screwed up"!

2. After the installer connects the gas pipes to the condenser, he is required to vacuum the pipes to remove air and moisture inside it. NOTE that the DURATION of vacuuming is 15 mins or more. Many installer will do it for a very shot period or 5 mins (some don't even do it), specially when you don't time them. Proper vacuuming is important to protect the compressor, other parts as well as for effective cooling and for leak check.

3. After the 15 mins of vacuuming, the installer will have to close the low pressure manifold gauge valve (to make it easier for readers, look for the blue gauge and blue knob on the manifold gauge) and shut off the vacuum pump. AT THIS MOMENT, take a photo of the blue gauge focusing on the gauge pointer reading. Then wait for 1 to 2 mins and take another photo of the same gauge. Compare the position of the gauge pointer. If the position of the pointer has changed, even for a slight amount, is a sight of leaking some where in the piping or the manifold gauge tubing. The installer has to rectify this issue and redo the vacuum all over again. If this is not comply, you cannot confirmed that your system will not leak in the next 3 months time, one year time or even 2 years time when your warranty is over.

4. After the above point 3 is done accordingly, and the system is running, ask the installer to apply some soap and water solution over the service valve at the condenser to confirm that there is not leaking. If soap bubbles start to grow bigger at the valve, it is a sight that some thing there is leaking. The installer needs to rectify this and redo the soap leak test again.

The above are common practices that installers will normally skips from the manufacturer's installation requirements but can be very costly for you in future. Some installer may even argue with you for doing this, so get the understanding and agreement from the dealer that you purchase the system from that you want these steps to be done.

The above are my opinion and hope that they are helpful
 
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dachee

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not necessary the tick cause seldom use it.. i need it to be reliable.........:D

Hi,

Top 3 brands that I noticed from dealers, not in order of position:

1. Panasonic
2. Daikin
3. Mitsubishi Electric StarMex (NOT Mitsubishi Heavy Industries)

Do also consider the tick because it is likely that you will recover the initial cost different from your usage. However, if you seldom use it, then good not to install at all.
 
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dachee

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Looking to replace my 15 year old Sanyo system 3.

Currently have 3 indoor units in each of the 3 rooms (1 x SAP-K97GS5A for master bedroom and 2 x SAP-K87GS5A for the 2 remaining bedrooms).

Budget about 3k, if can push to 2.7 or 2.8k will be good.

My house is the old 4-room simplified 84sqm one.

Any recommendations?

Hi,

There are brands that are below the 3k. Look for the 1. Brand, 2. Capacity and energy label ticks, 3. Noise and airflow, 4 Compare cost and adjust your acceptance on the above 1,2 and 3.

It is difficult to recommend as each individual buyer has different selection criteria.

The above are my opinion and hope that they are helpful.
 

dachee

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To batuchka,

LG think have 5 years full warranty.

Good to read the terms and conditions of the warranty before buying. If not wrong, 2nd year onward labour and transport not free. Now LG has promotion.
 
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zzzzzz87

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Hi,

1. Depending on HDB rules and regulations. They may have current restriction. If allowed by HDB to have addition power point, then yes, you can get an electrician to add another one with new wiring from the DB. He cannot tap it from the existing air conditioner power point. Some air conditioner installer also provide such services.

3. It is not the length of time that you use the air conditioner. A 2 ticks is less efficient than a 4 or 5 ticks. Meantime that you pay more for using the 2 ticks than the 4 or 5 ticks for the same period of usage.

4. Good to hear that.

The above are my opinion and hope that they are helpful

hi dachee,

1. just checked my unit.. only has one powerpoint for the compressor. but my ID has told me we can add another one just that it will be exposed wiring from the electrical cabinet to the aircon ledge. not sure if we should do the additional powerpoint now even though we are not buying two compressors for now. u have any advice?

3. i thought 5 ticks will take longer time to cool down and 2 ticks take shorter time? i only need the room to cool down then i can switch off the aircon. so basically wouldn't i be using a shorter time with 2 ticks and a longer time 5 ticks?

:)
 

dachee

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hi dachee,

1. just checked my unit.. only has one powerpoint for the compressor. but my ID has told me we can add another one just that it will be exposed wiring from the electrical cabinet to the aircon ledge. not sure if we should do the additional powerpoint now even though we are not buying two compressors for now. u have any advice?

3. i thought 5 ticks will take longer time to cool down and 2 ticks take shorter time? i only need the room to cool down then i can switch off the aircon. so basically wouldn't i be using a shorter time with 2 ticks and a longer time 5 ticks?

:)

Hi,

1. In my opinion, the additional power point will affect your decision on the type of system you need, ie either two condenser (containing the compressor and other parts which form the outdoor unit) or one condenser.

As your ID is not an authorized person in regards to the approval of the power point, it is still good to confirm it in writing with the relevant authority.

This is because once you decide to install two condensers but one first at this moment and to find out later that another power point is not approved, you will not be able to install another condenser.

Once you have a written reply that an additional power point is acceptable, then doing it now or later (assuming that your renovation is already over) does not matter. However, if you renovation is still in progress, than you may be able to hide the wiring behind cornices instead of exposed trucking.

2. There is not evidence that suggest that a 2 ticks takes a shorter time to cool the room than a 5 ticks. But from the specifications, the amount of energy that a 2 ticks uses is more than a 5 ticks for the same amount of heat removed from the room. This is confirmed by their COP rating.

In addition, the time it takes to cool the room would depends on your temperature setting, fan speed, as well as your body temperature and moisture in the room and on yourself. The 5 ticks seems to have higher airflow than the 2 ticks, cooling the room faster.

However, if rate of cooling the room is that important to you, taking a short shower is a cheap alternative to feeling cool and you will likely feel much cooler when you are in the air conditioned room as it is cooling down. In this way you can offset the price for electrical with water, which is less costly.

Switching the air conditioner on and off may cost more to run than having it running at a set temperature. You can check this out by doing an experience.

The above are my opinion and hope that they are helpful.
 
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