Air purifier? - Part 2

[BlackCube]

Where is the $20 voucher? Cannot seem to find it.

Ask the previous poster lo. I also don't know

Sent from Google PIXEL 3 using GAGT

 

[mindgamey]

Update #2:

I went to peek at the HEPA filters of the Xiaomi 3H and Sqair. Xiaomi's HEPA filter look generally clean with some dust and particles stuck to it. Sqair on the other hand, left me surprised - it's a round grey circle.


I never knew that the air in my room would be that... "bad". I do not smoke, and I do not have pets. It left me scratching my head and wondering why Sqair's HEPA is visibly more "dirty" than Xiaomi. But I do know that I am not left disappointed with Sqair's performance.

Contrary to what you said about the purifer, the round grey circle shows poor airflow in the purifier.

You want the air to flow evenly throughout the filter rather than be concentrated in the center. Bigger surface, lesser static pressure, more airflow, more filtration.

If there is sufficient air gap between fan and filter, aka an air duct, the airflow from the fan will spread and even out itself. For this air purifier, it is a case when the fan is too close to the filter.

Cylindrical shaped filters are the best at spreading flow evenly. Just look at an car's engine intake filter or oil filters, they are cylindrical shaped for this very reason.

 

[herz22]

Contrary to what you said about the purifer, the round grey circle shows poor airflow in the purifier.

You want the air to flow evenly throughout the filter rather than be concentrated in the center. Bigger surface, lesser static pressure, more airflow, more filtration.

If there is sufficient air gap between fan and filter, aka an air duct, the airflow from the fan will spread and even out itself. For this air purifier, it is a case when the fan is too close to the filter.

Cylindrical shaped filters are the best at spreading flow evenly. Just look at an car's engine intake filter or oil filters, they are cylindrical shaped for this very reason.

I beg to differ based on your assessment of the shape of the filters. Not all PR have cylindrical shape filters. Mercedes and BMW’s cabin and air intake filters are square-shaped and they do not suffer poorer airflow. If the cylindrical is better, why don’t all car manufacturers made it standard for all production cars? The shape chosen is mainly due to space constraints due to PR design.

Sqair has a bigger fan as compared to XM2, it is obvious to have a black shadow in the middle of the purifier because of the filtering. Smartair website has studies and research conducted in their laboratories and real environmental test to demonstrate why Sqair’s filtering has a better efficiency. It not that XM PR is bad but the point of the results is to let consumers like you and I decide which PR suit our needs.

I had the opportunity when I went to buy my first Sqair and met the engineer (Singaporean), who shared a lot with me. Which is why I bought 3 at one go.

 

[Chaos32]

Is there a local retailer for Sqair? Thanks.

 

[mindgamey]

I beg to differ based on your assessment of the shape of the filters. Not all PR have cylindrical shape filters. Mercedes and BMW’s cabin and air intake filters are square-shaped and they do not suffer poorer airflow. If the cylindrical is better, why don’t all car manufacturers made it standard for all production cars? The shape chosen is mainly due to space constraints due to PR design.

Sqair has a bigger fan as compared to XM2, it is obvious to have a black shadow in the middle of the purifier because of the filtering. Smartair website has studies and research conducted in their laboratories and real environmental test to demonstrate why Sqair’s filtering has a better efficiency. It not that XM PR is bad but the point of the results is to let consumers like you and I decide which PR suit our needs.

I had the opportunity when I went to buy my first Sqair and met the engineer (Singaporean), who shared a lot with me. Which is why I bought 3 at one go. ******************

I did say a square or rectangular shaped filter will work if the duct is sufficiently long enough for the flow to spread out. AP do not have the luxury to design a long duct to even out the flow.

You dont see the kind of shadow in those cars. You take a look yourself.

A rather old video but still my favourite as it show AP different design construction

Look at Blueair's design here where is a step to position the filter which will leave a gap as the air duct before the fan:

His concern as wellusing rectangular filter.

I have a sharp KC50 and I dont see phenomenon if the design is done properly.

As a silent reader in this thread, this is the first time I seen someone says their filter has a shadow on filter.

My 2 cents.

 

[herz22]

I did say a square or rectangular shaped filter will work if the duct is sufficiently long enough for the flow to spread out. AP do not have the luxury to design a long duct to even out the flow.

You dont see the kind of shadow in those cars. You take a look yourself.

A rather old video but still my favourite as it show AP different design construction

Look at Blueair's design here where is a step to position the filter which will leave a gap as the air duct before the fan:

His concern as wellusing rectangular filter.

I have a sharp KC50 and I dont see phenomenon if the design is done properly.

As a silent reader in this thread, this is the first time I seen someone says their filter has a shadow on filter.

My 2 cents.

Maybe let's understand how HEPA filter works.

https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/what-is-hepa-filter-how-hepa-air-filter-work/

Here is how Sqair's purifier's filter performance after 6 months of continuous usage.

https://ibb.co/5FxxFW6

Here you can see that at the end of the cycle, there is a dark shadow indication there is a need to change. If the HEPA filter is not dirty at all, it could mean that the room has very little contaminants or the purifier's filtration design is not effective for the HEPA to capture all the contaminants.

The best way to test is to use an air quality tester to check if your AP is up to specifications. Here is a photo of my test done at home. Look at the different PM2.5 readings from my air tester and XM's screen.

https://ibb.co/Z28JH5C

Some APs are designed to give you a false sense of security with all the additional features. Like ionisers and UVC (creates ozone, which is bad for health), 5 layers filtration system etc. I am not saying all other APs are bad but depend on the individual's preference and affordability.

 

[herz22]

Is there a local retailer for Sqair? Thanks.

There is a local distributor for Sqair and can be bought on Shopee or Lazada. I went to their office to buy it because I want to find out more from the Sqair engineer.

 

[paul02]

There is a local distributor for Sqair and can be bought on Shopee or Lazada. I went to their office to buy it because I want to find out more from the Sqair engineer.

Cool, what did you learn from their engineer?

 

[Chaos32]

There is a local distributor for Sqair and can be bought on Shopee or Lazada. I went to their office to buy it because I want to find out more from the Sqair engineer.

Thanks. Would it be possible to share where their office is please? Much appreciated.

 

[Lucky177]

Many of us here have “air quality tester” too. I just want to say I have two standalone tester and I used to take the readings and compare with my xm pro pm2.5 inbuilt display.

More or less is quite accurate especially when u placed the testers near to each other including the inbuilt which is at the back of the AP. Won’t be exact same reading all the time. There’s quite a bit of discussion why readings jumpy etc last time by others. Pic of readings of various readers uploaded last time too.

Anyway, I’m happy to keep my room at single digit throughout the night. And I’m not purely based on the inbuilt AP indicator.

Just want to share... in case give the impression that xm AP are not up to spec... at least xm Pro is up to my expectation. Not that is without hiccups/cons tho’. No AP is perfect. Only which AP suits the most for an individual.

As for the filters, I would say is relatively very dirty for my case. I have compared with my other APs in the past before I sold them / given away.

For those say not dirty, is your AP running at auto mode? Placed your AP at one corner with little open space apart? I dunno.

 

[mindgamey]

Maybe let's understand how HEPA filter works.

https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/what-is-hepa-filter-how-hepa-air-filter-work/

Here is how Sqair's purifier's filter performance after 6 months of continuous usage.

https://ibb.co/5FxxFW6

Here you can see that at the end of the cycle, there is a dark shadow indication there is a need to change. If the HEPA filter is not dirty at all, it could mean that the room has very little contaminants or the purifier's filtration design is not effective for the HEPA to capture all the contaminants.

The best way to test is to use an air quality tester to check if your AP is up to specifications. Here is a photo of my test done at home. Look at the different PM2.5 readings from my air tester and XM's screen.

https://ibb.co/Z28JH5C

Some APs are designed to give you a false sense of security with all the additional features. Like ionisers and UVC (creates ozone, which is bad for health), 5 layers filtration system etc. I am not saying all other APs are bad but depend on the individual's preference and affordability.

The picture you attached clearly shows the AP not using the full area of the filter. Simple as that.

I not saying SQair filter is not working but I am saying the design does not effective use all of the filter's surface area.

The Filter might be cheap but you paid for the whole filter only to use by my estimate 80% of the filter area.

Clearly a design flaw where the AP is designed to be so compact that.... I already said in my earlier post. The AP is clearly not using the full capability of the filter, in other words it could be even better! It is a design compromise that they take with that shape and size. I wont blindly spew out what their engineers say.

Yes, it will get dirty, but it's the whole filter getting dirty not just circular area corresponding to the fan.

Your final picture only serve to highlight that all these meters need to be calibrated. Also humidity will skew the results. I am talking about filtration performance, dont try to divert to another area.

I have another pocket sized meter if uncalibrated will show double NEA's reading but it can be calibrated to the nearest station and my readings are more in line with NEA figures.

Do read up more especially WRX's post on meter rather than blindly just compare the meters

P.S I am beginning to suspect why you are so diehard on the SQair even xiaomi supportors or Samsung AX supports do not seems so diehard as you. Sure the Sqair looks nicer that the copycat Xiaomi.

All I can say to people here is, this is the company's first gen product. Wait for the second gen as they are learning from the first then buy. Look at Xiaomi's first gen AP vs the current 3H, they have come leaps and bounds in terms of improvement in performance and noise.

Admittingly, I bought into the hype and bought the first gen which turned out to be too loud for sleeping during haze season. Now it has sitting as spare with my 3H and KC50 as main APs.

 

[herz22]

Cool, what did you learn from their engineer?

He shared how he and his Smartair colleagues designed and engineered the Sqair. The difficulties to get the form factor right, using the most engineering to get the best efficiency output.

 

[herz22]

The picture you attached clearly shows the AP not using the full area of the filter. Simple as that.

I not saying SQair filter is not working but I am saying the design does not effective use all of the filter's surface area.

The Filter might be cheap but you paid for the whole filter only to use by my estimate 80% of the filter area.

Clearly a design flaw where the AP is designed to be so compact that.... I already said in my earlier post. The AP is clearly not using the full capability of the filter, in other words it could be even better! It is a design compromise that they take with that shape and size. I wont blindly spew out what their engineers say.

Yes, it will get dirty, but it's the whole filter getting dirty not just circular area corresponding to the fan.

Your final picture only serve to highlight that all these meters need to be calibrated. Also humidity will skew the results. I am talking about filtration performance, dont try to divert to another area.

I have another pocket sized meter if uncalibrated will show double NEA's reading but it can be calibrated to the nearest station and my readings are more in line with NEA figures.

Do read up more especially WRX's post on meter rather than blindly just compare the meters

P.S I am beginning to suspect why you are so diehard on the SQair even xiaomi supportors or Samsung AX supports do not seems so diehard as you. Sure the Sqair looks nicer that the copycat Xiaomi.

All I can say to people here is, this is the company's first gen product. Wait for the second gen as they are learning from the first then buy. Look at Xiaomi's first gen AP vs the current 3H, they have come leaps and bounds in terms of improvement in performance and noise.

Admittingly, I bought into the hype and bought the first gen which turned out to be too loud for sleeping during haze season. Now it has sitting as spare with my 3H and KC50 as main APs.

I thought this is a forum for sharing and contributing their findings of the product of interest. I didn't expect it to be like kiddy squabbles like mine is better and yours not good. You are an XM user and I am a Sqair user. Whether the entire filter is used or not, does the product serve the purpose for me? Yes.

The air tester unit I bought does not need to be calibrated and I have done my research before splurging the money to get one. What you see in my photo is after 3 to 4 tests and my older XM just gives a false reading. You do not need to be a rocket scientist to use this air tester, even my child knows how to use it too.

"Does the Laser Egg need to be recalibrated?

The Laser Egg has been designed so that it doesn't need recalibration over time. The design of the airflow inside is optimized to reduce dust accumulation, the optics are all designed to last for over 30,000 hours, and the Laser Egg has a standby mode that is enabled when the device sits still for 15 minutes.

When Standby Mode is enabled, the Laser Egg's measurement interval is adjusted, thereby doubling the lifetime of the sensor. We have done all this so that the Laser Eggs do not need recalibration, and they work well over the span of several years."

https://support.kaiterra.com/does-the-laser-egg-need-to-be-recalibrated

To be honest, your message to me is that yours is the best, cylindrical filters are the most efficient, Sqair is poorly engineered and wasteful. So what is cheap?

You have done your fair share and do your research, so have I. No one enjoys being told that they had made a poor decision of what they have purchased. If this respect is not reflected in your comments, then you simply have poor manners.

PS. I am also beginning to suspect why you are so diehard on the XM even XM supporters are not so diehard like you.

 

[herz22]

Many of us here have “air quality tester” too. I just want to say I have two standalone tester and I used to take the readings and compare with my xm pro pm2.5 inbuilt display.

More or less is quite accurate especially when u placed the testers near to each other including the inbuilt which is at the back of the AP. Won’t be exact same reading all the time. There’s quite a bit of discussion why readings jumpy etc last time by others. Pic of readings of various readers uploaded last time too.

Anyway, I’m happy to keep my room at single digit throughout the night. And I’m not purely based on the inbuilt AP indicator.

Just want to share... in case give the impression that xm AP are not up to spec... at least xm Pro is up to my expectation. Not that is without hiccups/cons tho’. No AP is perfect. Only which AP suits the most for an individual.

As for the filters, I would say is relatively very dirty for my case. I have compared with my other APs in the past before I sold them / given away.

For those say not dirty, is your AP running at auto mode? Placed your AP at one corner with little open space apart? I dunno.

I am not sure which brand of air tester you own but I had read and checked with companies specialised in air quality measurements. Most will not recommend consumers to trust the readings on the APs. A separate air tester will give a more accurate reading. What I research is that measuring particles of 1 micron or less with an air tester will detect particles from road traffic pollution where high concentrations of PM1 and 0.3 are most present. In such cases, an inbuilt air purifier sensor may tell you the air quality is good, when in fact, it isn’t as particles are much finer than what it is capable of measuring.

No AP is perfect. Only which AP suits the most for an individual.

I totally agree with your above statement.

As for where to place APs, this site gives a great example.

https://learnmetrics.com/where-to-place-air-purifier/

 

[Lucky177]

Allow me share my thoughts.

If you place your “reader” at different place, the readings will be different especially when I noticed your XM AP is on auto mode.

If u placed the reader behind your XM AP where the inbuilt reader is ... and compare, reader probably should be around the same as the XM indicator... at least that’s what I have tested with my two standalone readers vs my xm pro inbuilt.

Just want to clarify only. Not saying sqair is no good or xm is better or vice versa. Each has their own pros and cons.

Some can say additional features are giving false security .... but some can also say, without a reader indicator, how can be sure it works / efficient enough to clean the air in the buyer’s room / environment especially during haze? And I not mean based on paper specs/lab test.

Some can also say their AP is no good not working but actual fact, their windows open big big. Some can say AP only works well when all windows and door closed.

To me, indicator can be useful. Why? Because I don’t close all my windows. I keep it open a bit yet the level can be maintained at the level I wanted without deteriorating. There’s where I got to play around the desired manual speed etc, without having to notice the “noise” yet is sufficient enough to clean my room etc.

Don’t misunderstand. I’m not arguing. Just sharing my thoughts about the “reliability” of xm inbuilt reader. Is reliable enough for a general gauge whether current manual speed is sufficient enough to clean the air of one’s room at any point in time - whether air has detoriating or air is still maintaining at good level ( as in PM2.5 levels )

Just sharing only.

 

[mindgamey]

I thought this is a forum for sharing and contributing their findings of the product of interest. I didn't expect it to be like kiddy squabbles like mine is better and yours not good. You are an XM user and I am a Sqair user. Whether the entire filter is used or not, does the product serve the purpose for me? Yes.

The air tester unit I bought does not need to be calibrated and I have done my research before splurging the money to get one. What you see in my photo is after 3 to 4 tests and my older XM just gives a false reading. You do not need to be a rocket scientist to use this air tester, even my child knows how to use it too.

"Does the Laser Egg need to be recalibrated?

The Laser Egg has been designed so that it doesn't need recalibration over time. The design of the airflow inside is optimized to reduce dust accumulation, the optics are all designed to last for over 30,000 hours, and the Laser Egg has a standby mode that is enabled when the device sits still for 15 minutes.

When Standby Mode is enabled, the Laser Egg's measurement interval is adjusted, thereby doubling the lifetime of the sensor. We have done all this so that the Laser Eggs do not need recalibration, and they work well over the span of several years."

https://support.kaiterra.com/does-the-laser-egg-need-to-be-recalibrated

To be honest, your message to me is that yours is the best, cylindrical filters are the most efficient, Sqair is poorly engineered and wasteful. So what is cheap?

You have done your fair share and do your research, so have I. No one enjoys being told that they had made a poor decision of what they have purchased. If this respect is not reflected in your comments, then you simply have poor manners.

PS. I am also beginning to suspect why you are so diehard on the XM even XM supporters are not so diehard like you.

It's cheaper because rectangular filters are easier to make without specialized toolings.

TB has plenty of seller who can custom make such filters.


https://support.kaiterra.com/does-the-laser-egg-need-to-be-recalibrated
Also come on, you believe what the seller says? All the marketing BS with nothing to show for, just a paragraph of words. If it's that good why do industrial measuring need calibration?

Such consumer grade products are only good to compare relative air quality from the baseline say usually pm2.5 is 30ug/m3 then sudden later is 60, you know air quality has deteriorated.

"Many models of low-cost PM sensors are available these days on the market. The conducted comparison of four models of PM sensors and TEOM analyser demonstrated that optical PM sensors generally follow the trend of PM2.5 changes in atmospheric air. However, some temporary peaks were observed for the raw short-term data in the case of all tested sensors. Data filtering or smoothing for at least 15 minutes may be advantageous in that situation and should not affect the ability to detect short-term pollution events."

"An important thing that should be noted is that the raw outputs from the off-the-shelf devices may significantly overestimate the PM2.5 concentrations (a factor of 2.5–5 might be observed, as the results of this study showed). It may be due to the fact that sensors are calibrated by the manufacturer using particles with properties completely different than particulate matter in the monitored air. For this reason, calibration (or recalibration) of PM sensors should be made in the final environment of measurements. The most common method of such calibration is based on the use of the data from the collocated higher-class instrument."

https://www.hindawi.com/journals/js/2018/5096540/

You go ahead and use your SQair, I never say it's unfit, just not as good as you are saying. One thing for sure, it looks nicer than the copycat XM.

I will continue to use my XM and Sharp. I still have pet peeve on the 3H and its short coming:

1. the IFTTT is lacking compared to Gen 1 and
2. the bootup prompt that you are not using original filters (or old filters).
3. Lack of a handle to carry the AP.

 

[mindgamey]

This is what happens when you put filter directly to the fan. Outcome of the filter is similar to SQair

 

[herz22]

Allow me share my thoughts.

If you place your “reader” at different place, the readings will be different especially when I noticed your XM AP is on auto mode.

If u placed the reader behind your XM AP where the inbuilt reader is ... and compare, reader probably should be around the same as the XM indicator... at least that’s what I have tested with my two standalone readers vs my xm pro inbuilt.

Just want to clarify only. Not saying sqair is no good or xm is better or vice versa. Each has their own pros and cons.

Some can say additional features are giving false security .... but some can also say, without a reader indicator, how can be sure it works / efficient enough to clean the air in the buyer’s room / environment especially during haze? And I not mean based on paper specs/lab test.

Some can also say their AP is no good not working but actual fact, their windows open big big. Some can say AP only works well when all windows and door closed.

To me, indicator can be useful. Why? Because I don’t close all my windows. I keep it open a bit yet the level can be maintained at the level I wanted without deteriorating. There’s where I got to play around the desired manual speed etc, without having to notice the “noise” yet is sufficient enough to clean my room etc.

Don’t misunderstand. I’m not arguing. Just sharing my thoughts about the “reliability” of xm inbuilt reader. Is reliable enough for a general gauge whether current manual speed is sufficient enough to clean the air of one’s room at any point in time - whether air has detoriating or air is still maintaining at good level ( as in PM2.5 levels )

Just sharing only.

Great sharing.

 

[herz22]

This is what happens when you put filter directly to the fan. Outcome of the filter is similar to SQair

That is the purpose of air purification right? Drawing contaminated air in and filtering them out. Not everyone can afford to pay high prices for an expensive AP and at least this rudimentary contraption works for the people.

That is similar to Smartair's first AP and it works for them.

 

[herz22]

It's cheaper because rectangular filters are easier to make without specialized toolings.

TB has plenty of seller who can custom make such filters.


https://support.kaiterra.com/does-the-laser-egg-need-to-be-recalibrated
Also come on, you believe what the seller says? All the marketing BS with nothing to show for, just a paragraph of words. If it's that good why do industrial measuring need calibration?

Such consumer grade products are only good to compare relative air quality from the baseline say usually pm2.5 is 30ug/m3 then sudden later is 60, you know air quality has deteriorated.

"Many models of low-cost PM sensors are available these days on the market. The conducted comparison of four models of PM sensors and TEOM analyser demonstrated that optical PM sensors generally follow the trend of PM2.5 changes in atmospheric air. However, some temporary peaks were observed for the raw short-term data in the case of all tested sensors. Data filtering or smoothing for at least 15 minutes may be advantageous in that situation and should not affect the ability to detect short-term pollution events."

"An important thing that should be noted is that the raw outputs from the off-the-shelf devices may significantly overestimate the PM2.5 concentrations (a factor of 2.5–5 might be observed, as the results of this study showed). It may be due to the fact that sensors are calibrated by the manufacturer using particles with properties completely different than particulate matter in the monitored air. For this reason, calibration (or recalibration) of PM sensors should be made in the final environment of measurements. The most common method of such calibration is based on the use of the data from the collocated higher-class instrument."

https://www.hindawi.com/journals/js/2018/5096540/

You go ahead and use your SQair, I never say it's unfit, just not as good as you are saying. One thing for sure, it looks nicer than the copycat XM.

I will continue to use my XM and Sharp. I still have pet peeve on the 3H and its short coming:

1. the IFTTT is lacking compared to Gen 1 and
2. the bootup prompt that you are not using original filters (or old filters).
3. Lack of a handle to carry the AP.

How many consumers are willing to pay for an industrial-grade air monitoring device? To me this is the next best thing, there is nothing wrong with the tester and I am satisfied with the readings.

I have the opportunity to make the comparison between XM and Sqair because I own both APs at home and my results show that Sqair is better. Unless you have bought a Sqair or any Smartair products at home to perform a fair comparison, whatever you had commented on are just your bias view.