Any full time investors?

[Invest1000]

Since there is a thread asking about full time trading, I would also like to see if there is anyone that invests for a living. By definition these 2 are different, since traders buy and sell quick whereas investors buy and hold.

So if there are any full time investors
-what is your bankroll like?
-how much are you making per month?

thanks

 

[alexchia01]

Since there is a thread asking about full time trading, I would also like to see if there is anyone that invests for a living. By definition these 2 are different, since traders buy and sell quick whereas investors buy and hold.

So if there are any full time investors
-what is your bankroll like?
-how much are you making per month?

thanks

What is your purpose of asking these questions?

 

[focus1974]

I am a full time investor making around $250-300k from dividends/coupons yearly.

But money no enough.. Now I am actively looking for active income like business or job.

 

[cybercom8]

I am a full time investor making around $250-300k from dividends/coupons yearly.

But money no enough.. Now I am actively looking for active income like business or job.

wow, nice...but wouldn't it be tough to go back to a 9-5 job when you enjoyed so much freedom as a FT investor?

 

[alexchia01]

I am a full time investor making around $250-300k from dividends/coupons yearly.

But money no enough.. Now I am actively looking for active income like business or job.

If you are already making $250-300k and money is still not enough, I don't think making more money is the solution to your problem.

 

[Dividends Warrior]

If you are already making $250-300k and money is still not enough, I don't think making more money is the solution to your problem.

Maybe his expenses is really really high......

Maybe he needs to maintain a yacht or private jet.

 

[antonpoh]

This person earns about $250k a year on passive income on all her investments. If base on what she say 8% annual return, her capital is around 3.125 mil.

Banker, 41, can afford to retire in next three years, Money Matters, Singapore Jobs, Job Resources - STJobs

 

[antonpoh]

 

[Dyhalt]

I personally think there is a difference between a full time investor investing to make a living and someone who already has a lot of money and let others do the investing for him/her (AKA High Networth jobless individual with investment returns). I think all of us are trying to become the latter at some point in our life

Relying purely on investing to make ends meet is risky from the examples I've seen around me. But from the examples I've seen :

Networth : The "investors" type generally have networth above 3 million SGD, most of them achieve through inheritance or selling their company. The "traders" type I know have an investment amount around 300k.. highly unstable annualized returns. I don't have the whole picture and I believe many of them are highly leveraged in their positions.

Gains : 8% annualized is too high compare to the figures I've heard. Its more like 3~5% for "investors" (Of course they can get higher gain by leveraging their positions)... while "Traders" varies greatly.

Outcome : For the past 6 years I've heard 4 bankruptcy cases of such people, all due to being too leveraged in their positions and were caught when the market suddenly change side.

 

[antonpoh]

I personally think there is a difference between a full time investor investing to make a living and someone who already has a lot of money and let others do the investing for him/her (AKA High Networth jobless individual with investment returns). I think all of us are trying to become the latter at some point in our life

Relying purely on investing to make ends meet is risky from the examples I've seen around me. But from the examples I've seen :

Networth : The "investors" type generally have networth above 3 million SGD, most of them achieve through inheritance or selling their company. The "traders" type I know have an investment amount around 300k.. highly unstable annualized returns. I don't have the whole picture and I believe many of them are highly leveraged in their positions.

Gains : 8% annualized is too high compare to the figures I've heard. Its more like 3~5% for "investors" (Of course they can get higher gain by leveraging their positions)... while "Traders" varies greatly.

Outcome : For the past 6 years I've heard 4 bankruptcy cases of such people, all due to being too leveraged in their positions and were caught when the market suddenly change side.

8% is too high? I think it's too low.

I only invest in those with 30-50% annual return.

 

[Dyhalt]

8% is too high? I think it's too low.

I only invest in those with 30-50% annual return.

I believe there are alot of professionals like you who can achieve better yields.

As for people around me who trust bank investment instruments... yep 3~5% is more realistic

 

[alexchia01]

Whether 8% return per annum is too high or too low depends on how much risk you are taking.

For investing, 8% return is high because a typical investment strategy is spread across a long period of time and sometime across multiple products. This spread out your risk and limit your return.

For trading, 8% return is too low because trading strategy is much focused and aiming to make money from the short-term volatility. Your risk is higher, hence your return is higher.

For myself, I can generate a 6% annual return from investing and a 120% return from trading.

Many people will think... Wow! 120% trading return is fantastic, why invest? Trading is good enough already.

But they forget that the 6% investment return is a passive income, I don't have to do anything for this money coming in yearly.

Whereas, the 120% trading return need me to constantly trade. One day, if I can't trade, this income stop coming.

This is why my strategy is to use the trading income to build the investment portfolio.

So that one day, if I choose to stop trading, my investment income can still sustain my lifestyle.

IMO, trading and investing are both important, but if I can only choose 1, I'll choose investing.

 

[sAVaGEmP5]

8% is too high? I think it's too low.

I only invest in those with 30-50% annual return.

Those investment managers on Forbes 100 also never boast until like this, they merely made 10-15% on 30 bn capital.

Nowadays ppl all very smart and investment savvy, me old liao.

 

[antonpoh]

Those investment managers on Forbes 100 also never boast until like this, they merely made 10-15% on 30 bn capital.

Nowadays ppl all very smart and investment savvy, me old liao.

I'm old too.. getting eldershield letter in another 2 months.

For 30-50% return is not that difficult. You will find it difficult only when you spread out your money and invest in many.

Usually year end i will do a bit of research on which are the best industries or stocks to invest for the next 2-3 yrs. Out of 30 stocks i will pick 3 good ones.. and out if the 3 i will invest in 1 or 2 that may give me that kind of return.

 

[agau168]

Whether 8% return per annum is too high or too low depends on how much risk you are taking.

For investing, 8% return is high because a typical investment strategy is spread across a long period of time and sometime across multiple products. This spread out your risk and limit your return.

For trading, 8% return is too low because trading strategy is much focused and aiming to make money from the short-term volatility. Your risk is higher, hence your return is higher.

For myself, I can generate a 6% annual return from investing and a 120% return from trading.

Many people will think... Wow! 120% trading return is fantastic, why invest? Trading is good enough already.

But they forget that the 6% investment return is a passive income, I don't have to do anything for this money coming in yearly.

Whereas, the 120% trading return need me to constantly trade. One day, if I can't trade, this income stop coming.

This is why my strategy is to use the trading income to build the investment portfolio.

So that one day, if I choose to stop trading, my investment income can still sustain my lifestyle.

IMO, trading and investing are both important, but if I can only choose 1, I'll choose investing.

This seems like an interesting thread. If you are get 120% trading returns, isn't your strategy going to be very high-risk? 100% this year, maybe -40% the next?

 

[sk0065]

I am a full time investor making around $250-300k from dividends/coupons yearly.

But money no enough.. Now I am actively looking for active income like business or job.

250K coupon =
your portfolio 5M SGD ar?

 

[sk0065]

Gains : 8% annualized is too high compare to the figures I've heard. Its more like 3~5% for "investors" (Of course they can get higher gain by leveraging their positions)... while "Traders" varies greatly.

That's my take too.

250K annual DVD, at 5+% yield.....
portfolio got to be 4-5M

 

[3dfxplayer]

This seems like an interesting thread. If you are get 120% trading returns, isn't your strategy going to be very high-risk? 100% this year, maybe -40% the next?

120% is only possible if you have a true edge, like a risk free arbitrage or some way to front run orders legally, its not possible to obtain anywhere near those kind of returns if you are trading direction, which is what 99.9% of the traders out there do. You also need the right kind of market for outsized returns.

This is a comment from Peter Brandt, who managed sustained returns of 49% returns over 40 years:

Question: (About turning $50,000 into $1,000,000) You are very critical of the promoters of trading systems and training programs that offer promises of huge profits. I share your criticism. Yet, surely you know some traders who have turned $50,000 into $1,000,000 in a matter of a few years. If so, how did they do it?

Answer: I personally know some traders who have achieved this type of profitability. Yet, there are some things all aspiring traders need to understand about 10-fold and 20-fold profitability. First, I know no trader who has achieved this level of profitability with a system or trading approach. Such levels of profitability come from ultra-leverage in very substantial and sustained one-off trends – not by applying day trading techniques learned from a $3,000 trading video. Second, the leverage and risk taken to achieve this level of profitability represent a two-sided coin. I cannot recall a single trader who has achieved a 10-fold or 20- fold return during less than a five year period who has not also experienced at least one 50% drawdown in the process. Herein lies the dilemma – and a question. If you, as a trader, ran a $50,000 account into $1,000,000, then experienced a drawdown back to $500,000, which frame of mind would you have:?

A. You just made $450,000 – what a fabulous thing

B. You just lost $500,000 – what a bummer

There is another dimension to a 10- or 20- bagger that I must mention. A big trading score requires far more than the desire to make it happen, perseverance, incredible patience, discernment, boldness and the right trading tactics. It requires the right markets at the right time in a trader’s career – and that is largely a function of luck. Without the intervention of providence no amount of desire/boldness/trading tactics will make it happen.

 

[Mecisteus]

This seems like an interesting thread. If you are get 120% trading returns, isn't your strategy going to be very high-risk? 100% this year, maybe -40% the next?

You just joined and you bumped up an old thread.

I did ask Alex before. If he can generate enormous returns through trading, why still need to invest for lower returns?

Then only reasons I can think of are

1) Enormous returns may not be sustainable
2) Or capital is peanuts. ie 1k to 10k type

Actually expected returns are also a function of your capital size.

It is easier to achieve outsize returns if the capital is smaller. You can focus on a few assets.

Once the capital gets larger, it will get more and more difficult to achieve enormous returns. Because you tend to spread out your targets.