Any private banking customers here?

[highsulphur]

Because you PB customer with higher limit. I withdrew 20k and kena questioned.

No la. I don't qualify to be a pb client. Just kay pohing here

 

[mikezuper]

You try withdrawing 50k cash tomorrow, if you not PB customer.

This is true, I kenna before.

They are so kaypoh ah.

Next time I will say keep in Milo Tin.

 

[havetheveryfun]

This is true, I kenna before.

They are so kaypoh ah.

Next time I will say keep in Milo Tin.

prolly just following SOP n to cover their own backside

 

[firsttimebuyer]

Got...
I was 35yrs old when i went to open accounts in 2 swiss banks.
both asked for details of the source of funds.
Both also ask me to give her the transaction (properties related).

but no hassle.. just show the proof and sign the documents ..and then ask you which booking center you want.. hongkong, singapore or swiss.

Ok, thanks. very interesting.

I suppose it makes sense, to check for some documentation. I wonder how the Indonesian Chinese do it in singapore though, I mean, not possible they can show documentation all the time.

 

[wts2013]

Ok, thanks. very interesting.

I suppose it makes sense, to check for some documentation. I wonder how the Indonesian Chinese do it in singapore though, I mean, not possible they can show documentation all the time.

hahaha regulatory checks apply to all customers, more stringent for pb, if moi were your rm, moi would put u under watch liao, hahaha

 

[henrylbh]

Now Sg is more and more stringent on money laundering. Long ago, I withdrew more than 50k in cash, no question ask. Recently, I withdrew only 20k, kena questioned.

Even professional service providers are cautioned to look out for money laundering activities and to report any suspicion. Even money changers are not spared. Under the rules, they need to record particulars of customers changing money above $10k only.

 

[focus1974]

Now Sg is more and more stringent on money laundering. Long ago, I withdrew more than 50k in cash, no question ask. Recently, I withdrew only 20k, kena questioned.

Even professional service providers are cautioned to look out for money laundering activities and to report any suspicion. Even money changers are not spared. Under the rules, they need to record particulars of customers changing money above $10k only.

But why need to withdraw 20k cash?
Just write cheque better rite?

 

[wts2013]

But why need to withdraw 20k cash?
Just write cheque better rite?

hahaha some things can only be settled with cash, then hor FAST got 50k limit, so withdraw cash to deposit in another bank same day earn interest ma, cheque u lose interest lor, hahaha

 

[mikezuper]

But why need to withdraw 20k cash?
Just write cheque better rite?

Want to go holiday exchange foreign currency.
Want to put other bank as fresh fund part of other bank promo.
Put in milo tin to feel rich.

 

[henrylbh]

But why need to withdraw 20k cash?
Just write cheque better rite?

Can give cheques for private services rendered?

 

[klarklar]

How much are the fees charged by private bankers if they help you invest your funds? SAme as hedge funds? 2 and 20? How are private bankers' investment performance compared to index benchmarks?

 

[wondrdoggie]

How much are the fees charged by private bankers if they help you invest your funds? SAme as hedge funds? 2 and 20? How are private bankers' investment performance compared to index benchmarks?

There are basically 2 types of service - advisory and discretionary. Or combo.

Advisory means you make all the buy sell decisions yourself. They provide info, platform, advice on products, world economy, reports etc. You pay per transaction. Your rates depends on your relationship with the bank. For bonds it's 0.25, equity around 0.2, funds 1%, hedge funds are normally 2/20 (not sure how much the bank takes vs the fund), PE is around the same.

Discretionary means you give them a lump sum and they will invest for you according to your profile and wants. Across the world and all asset classes, usually meaning bonds, equities, fx, hedge funds and some derivatives. Usually no private equity as that timeframe is more than 10 years. Min can be as low as 100k-500k, but usually at least 1m. Jpm is USD2m. You pay a % with a minimum sum. The more aggressive your portfolio, the higher the rate. Eg, for a growth portfolio with 70% stocks, 20% bonds and 10% others, it's about 1.6% pa. Again, depend on the bank and actual mandate.

Performance wise, because it's a global multi asset class mandate, it's not easy to find an index that fits the exact model. My personal experience, they do better than me with more consistency. And my portfolio, they do better than closest indexes over the last 5 years. Not a ton better though.

Basically, I think it's good for people like me who know their limitation and disposition.

 

[Shiny Things]

The more aggressive your portfolio, the higher the rate. Eg, for a growth portfolio with 70% stocks, 20% bonds and 10% others, it's about 1.6% pa. Again, depend on the bank and actual mandate.

Crikey, 1.6% is pretty high. Over here, even the bog-standard Morgan Stanley mass-affluent advisor drones whose only asset is a nice suit will do asset-management services for 0.8%. (Which is still too high for me, but you know I'm a DIY purist.) Serious question: what does 1.6% get you?

 

[wondrdoggie]

Crikey, 1.6% is pretty high. Over here, even the bog-standard Morgan Stanley mass-affluent advisor drones whose only asset is a nice suit will do asset-management services for 0.8%. (Which is still too high for me, but you know I'm a DIY purist.) Serious question: what does 1.6% get you?

It got me 2.3% as of last week this year nett of fees for my pure discretionary portfolio. SGD denominated as most of it is hedged.

2014 was about 5%
2013 was good at 8%+

And I made a mistake about the fees, it's 1.3% not 1.6% for my type of portfolio.

 

[crossfitter]

Crikey, 1.6% is pretty high. Over here, even the bog-standard Morgan Stanley mass-affluent advisor drones whose only asset is a nice suit will do asset-management services for 0.8%. (Which is still too high for me, but you know I'm a DIY purist.) Serious question: what does 1.6% get you?

Correct me if I am wrong but I guess access to alternative investments that mass affluent advisers cant access? I guess they charge even more coz they really actively manage your portfolio with trades and hence the higher fees associated with a risky portfolio.

That would be my problem paying for such a service, if they cant consistently beat market indexes after fees, why would i be paying 1.6% for? Wouldn't buying different etfs to suit your own risk appetite be more suitable ie have an advisory portfolio.

 

[wondrdoggie]

Correct me if I am wrong but I guess access to alternative investments that mass affluent advisers cant access? I guess they charge even more coz they really actively manage your portfolio with trades and hence the higher fees associated with a risky portfolio.

That would be my problem paying for such a service, if they cant consistently beat market indexes after fees, why would i be paying 1.6% for? Wouldn't buying different etfs to suit your own risk appetite be more suitable ie have an advisory portfolio.

I think it also depends on quantum. If your base is 200-500k, yes I think quite manageable to DIY and have good control over your portfolio. But once it's in the millions, then you have further access to products that you can't at the lower levels and that opens up more options to consider.

Also, it's not very equitable to compare directly a multiasset portfolio to a straight equities or bond index.

But to each it's own. PBs are a multi billion dollar industry, they can't all be useless. Speaking for myself, it works for me because I am not good with DIY.. I tried it for 4 years already. Conclusion is that they do it better than me, even with the fees. So I let them manage some of my money while I still fiddle with some on my own. Another important consideration, it frees up time for me to do other things in my life.

 

[Shiny Things]

I think it also depends on quantum. If your base is 200-500k, yes I think quite manageable to DIY and have good control over your portfolio. But once it's in the millions, then you have further access to products that you can't at the lower levels and that opens up more options to consider.

Also, it's not very equitable to compare directly a multiasset portfolio to a straight equities or bond index.

So while I disagree about the need to pay >1% for having your money managed - I reckon you could get better risk-adjusted performance for less - this is actually a pretty fair point right here.

We're getting to the time of year where everyone starts trotting out the "oh look hedge funds badly underperformed the S&P 500" meme, and that's not really a fair comparison. A market-neutral hedge fund shouldn't get benchmarked against the S&P, for example, because it's a different set of risks. Nobody expects an all-SGS portfolio to beat the STI; same reason.

The fairer comparison for a multi-asset portfolio is something like a 60-40 equity-bond portfolio with a yearly rebalance - let's say an ES3-VWRD-A35 portfolio because that's easy to replicate. If some private banker with nice teeth and a tailored suit can't beat a cheap-as-chips 60-40 portfolio after fees, then that's a problem, but it's only fair to benchmark them against a fair index.

 

[crossfitter]

I think it also depends on quantum. If your base is 200-500k, yes I think quite manageable to DIY and have good control over your portfolio. But once it's in the millions, then you have further access to products that you can't at the lower levels and that opens up more options to consider.

Also, it's not very equitable to compare directly a multiasset portfolio to a straight equities or bond index.

But to each it's own. PBs are a multi billion dollar industry, they can't all be useless. Speaking for myself, it works for me because I am not good with DIY.. I tried it for 4 years already. Conclusion is that they do it better than me, even with the fees. So I let them manage some of my money while I still fiddle with some on my own. Another important consideration, it frees up time for me to do other things in my life.

totally appreciate that. Are they upfront with the fees they earn by selling a certain investment? I have some experience in accounting for structured notes that banks push onto banking clients and they do take a cut on both sides of the trade. Just wondering how their interest is aligned with yours when they promote a certain investment.

 

[wondrdoggie]

totally appreciate that. Are they upfront with the fees they earn by selling a certain investment? I have some experience in accounting for structured notes that banks push onto banking clients and they do take a cut on both sides of the trade. Just wondering how their interest is aligned with yours when they promote a certain investment.

They are upfront about the bank spread and all transactional rates are made know. It's something you need to know you can negotiate at the start. They have rack rates of course so it depends on your aum with them. However, some products are a little murkier to me like whether or not issuers gave them better prices.

Overall, I am using 3 banks. Never have I experienced hard sell or excessive pushing from them. It's always a professional presentation, pros and cons. Then it's up to you to decide. If anything, I fault them for being passive at times. However, I have heard of pushy tactics from an American bank so I think it depends on your rm and analyst team you are working with.

 

[Shiny Things]

totally appreciate that. Are they upfront with the fees they earn by selling a certain investment?

Depends on the bank and the client. I've found that private bankers tend to be reasonably upfront about how much they're taking in fees, and they'll usually even be upfront about how much they're taking on the embedded derivatives, as long as you know enough to ask. Double bonus points for you if you then take that price elsewhere and get a competing quote or an independent valuation (which is where I come in).

The corollary, though: if you don't ask, they'll know they can rip your face off and they will rip your face off.

Bulge-bracket and WM guys probably won't even have a clue, because none of their customers ever think to ask "how much are you taking on this?".