Anyone has experience with Providend?

[hwmook]

In my line of work, a phrase often being coined is "you don't know what you don't know"

Do we have the same boss?

 

[zoneguard]

One or 2 things might happened. The person they perceived to be an expert may turns out not to be so and their future ruined or they are successful and live happily ever after.

Or the person's interests may not be aligned to yours. The FA industry's compensation model doesn't exactly encourage this alignment.

 

[WindBoi]

Or the person's interests may not be aligned to yours. The FA industry's compensation model doesn't exactly encourage this alignment.

In order to find a professional that is able to help you, it boils down to roughly three areas:

1. Trust - you need to know to a certain degree the person has your best interest
2. Sophistication - need to know that the person has a level of technical competency to help you
3. Reliability - the person needs to execute well

It can be quite tough to find someone with all three criteria.

One of my closer friends showed me some of the policies that his planner recommends. This is his ex-girlfriend and he trusts her.

If he goes to her for some time, she is likely to be reliable.

But when I look at the recommendation, I have reservations those are the right stuff for my friend given his situation. This might be recommended because being a tied agent, that is the only thing she can sell.

Away from using the services of relatives, the challenge is that many can be taken in by a professional (not just in financial services) that sound really good in what they project during seminars and webinars.

To the more discerning people (the real experts) they might tell you this is just fluff.

Even worse, those with technical ability may make use of that to give you a solution mainly because they are better enumerated with it.

This is an example of high sophistication but questionable trust.

To be fair, when we engage a professional for a first time, we rely on implied trust (word of mouth, someone gives good review). We are taking a risk. Trust is usually build up overtime.

Finally, I do contend that our friends/relatives might not always be the best evaluator of sophistication, reliability and trust.

That is why while in theory going to a planner is advertise to be good, in execution it can be rather challenging.

 

[zoneguard]

1. Trust - you need to know to a certain degree the person has your best interest
2. Sophistication - need to know that the person has a level of technical competency to help you
3. Reliability - the person needs to execute well

It can be quite tough to find someone with all three criteria.

I gave up looking - so DIY myself. If I don't measure up in points 2 and 3, now I can only blame myself

 

[kickass22]

In order to find a professional that is able to help you, it boils down to roughly three areas:

1. Trust - you need to know to a certain degree the person has your best interest
2. Sophistication - need to know that the person has a level of technical competency to help you
3. Reliability - the person needs to execute well

It can be quite tough to find someone with all three criteria.

One of my closer friends showed me some of the policies that his planner recommends. This is his ex-girlfriend and he trusts her.

If he goes to her for some time, she is likely to be reliable.

But when I look at the recommendation, I have reservations those are the right stuff for my friend given his situation. This might be recommended because being a tied agent, that is the only thing she can sell.

Away from using the services of relatives, the challenge is that many can be taken in by a professional (not just in financial services) that sound really good in what they project during seminars and webinars.

To the more discerning people (the real experts) they might tell you this is just fluff.

Even worse, those with technical ability may make use of that to give you a solution mainly because they are better enumerated with it.

This is an example of high sophistication but questionable trust.

To be fair, when we engage a professional for a first time, we rely on implied trust (word of mouth, someone gives good review). We are taking a risk. Trust is usually build up overtime.

Finally, I do contend that our friends/relatives might not always be the best evaluator of sophistication, reliability and trust.

That is why while in theory going to a planner is advertise to be good, in execution it can be rather challenging.

For the three criteria's above, trust and reliability is hard to gauge as these take time, but by that time, that planner might have made some decisions that has impacted you unfavorably or not.

The funny thing about sophistication is that you will only know that if the planner has the sophistication, if you are able to understand, comprehend and then research and validate what the planner has said. Sometimes the sophistication is just fluff .

In the end , if you are cynic, you will end up D.I.Y. which can go both ways. If not, you will be going blindly trusting someone and hopefully it works out.

As you mention earlier , that's why people go for two to three doctors / lawyers to see if there is a different opinion on this.

The funny thing about financial planning is that unlike the doctor or the lawyer, you can learn and create your own plan, although it takes time and effort .

 

[zoneguard]

The funny thing about financial planning is that unlike the doctor or the lawyer, you can learn and create your own plan, although it takes time and effort .

Even when the plan is in place and have some margin of safety, I will still have my doubts from time to time and wonder if I've missed anything out. These forums, books and blogs are where I come to learn , refine and validate my plan.

 

[WindBoi]

For the three criteria's above, trust and reliability is hard to gauge as these take time, but by that time, that planner might have made some decisions that has impacted you unfavorably or not.

The funny thing about sophistication is that you will only know that if the planner has the sophistication, if you are able to understand, comprehend and then research and validate what the planner has said. Sometimes the sophistication is just fluff .

In the end , if you are cynic, you will end up D.I.Y. which can go both ways. If not, you will be going blindly trusting someone and hopefully it works out.

As you mention earlier , that's why people go for two to three doctors / lawyers to see if there is a different opinion on this.

The funny thing about financial planning is that unlike the doctor or the lawyer, you can learn and create your own plan, although it takes time and effort .

I think your point is correct. The unique thing about this kind of planning is that there are more resources out there.

To be fair, some of us try to diagnose our own health problems as well. But lawyers is the toughest. There is a code of conduct that seems like they won't carry out real advice unless money is paid.

But in a way it is not like you cannot find the information out there. When it comes to tax laws and all, the information is there, just that we are less accustom to understanding it. Even if we do, do we have enough confidence.

All this is applicable to planning and investing as well. You can read up on how much you need for Financial independence, based on what methodology. For some, they would wonder if they can trust what they read enough.

Usually, the will validate with some other financial thought leader online.

For some, they would try and ask someone with more experience in real life (sometimes a person like me)

So this is applicable for all profession.

Usually, people trust referral more because they trust their friend, there is an indirect assignment of trust, the friend shares their experience, so there is an understanding of sophistication and reliability.

My experience is mixed. I go with my first independent adviser because my ex-colleague told me he finds her "good". hindsight... i think both of us misjudged this.

While we can say negative things about this, we also seen first hand the downside of DIY Planning and Investing.

You really need to upskill and be a good planner and investor. With more information... there are more noises.

One of the big value that some might not agree on is to discern which of the information or data out there in the market that we should pay attention to and which can be discarded.

Tapering, inflation, market has been going up for 200 days... should we take action or does that affect the plan? As an investor (regardless of diy or guided), we need to know in our head whether this is applicable for how we manage and invest our money.

 

[kickass22]

I think your point is correct. The unique thing about this kind of planning is that there are more resources out there.

To be fair, some of us try to diagnose our own health problems as well. But lawyers is the toughest. There is a code of conduct that seems like they won't carry out real advice unless money is paid.

But in a way it is not like you cannot find the information out there. When it comes to tax laws and all, the information is there, just that we are less accustom to understanding it. Even if we do, do we have enough confidence.

All this is applicable to planning and investing as well. You can read up on how much you need for Financial independence, based on what methodology. For some, they would wonder if they can trust what they read enough.

Usually, the will validate with some other financial thought leader online.

For some, they would try and ask someone with more experience in real life (sometimes a person like me)

So this is applicable for all profession.

Usually, people trust referral more because they trust their friend, there is an indirect assignment of trust, the friend shares their experience, so there is an understanding of sophistication and reliability.

My experience is mixed. I go with my first independent adviser because my ex-colleague told me he finds her "good". hindsight... i think both of us misjudged this.

While we can say negative things about this, we also seen first hand the downside of DIY Planning and Investing.

You really need to upskill and be a good planner and investor. With more information... there are more noises.

One of the big value that some might not agree on is to discern which of the information or data out there in the market that we should pay attention to and which can be discarded.

Tapering, inflation, market has been going up for 200 days... should we take action or does that affect the plan? As an investor (regardless of diy or guided), we need to know in our head whether this is applicable for how we manage and invest our money.

I would say, it really depends on what level of an investor you want to be at. If things like tapering, inflation, market has been going up for 200 days matters to you, then you are more at the active side of investing , trading etc. If you are at the level of investing, then you definitely need to spent time learning to be able to be great active investor and how these affect you and your investment.

But for a simple D.I.Y. investor , there are simpler ways to invest without having to spent too much time to monitor and be aware of everyday market affairs.

At the initial start, there will be a need for you to spent a large part of your time to understand all the required basics. After that, With a clear plan and strategy for your goal , you will be able to discern easily if the everyday market movements and news are relevant to your goal and strategy.

This cannot be said for the profession of a doctor or Lawyer. There is no simple basics that will help you manage legal or medical issues as it requires tacit knowledge from experience.

 

[chrisloh65]

What sort of services are you looking for them to provide?

I've spoken to them before on retirement planning and had them took a look at my finances but in the end I didn't engage them. The $2,000 you mentioned is one off but for my case, there is a recurring annual fees based on AUM and this fees could range from (if I recall correctly) 0.5% to more than 1%.

Wah so expensive?!

 

[avatarfire]

depends on your needs. If your focus is on performance and portfolio growth, there's no need to hire an adviser. Given the availability of buying index funds today with various tilts, there is a universe of ETFs to choose from to suit your needs. You pay for the ETF management fee, some trading fees, maybe brokerage account fee, and nothing else.

If a person has complicated needs and plans a FI may be a good option. But what is complicated? Only you would know. But you understand competent FIs will also choose their clients wisely as everyone's time is precious. If your account is less than US$1m it's usually not worth the time or $ for both parties.