[Article] Buying a 4K TV: What you need to know about HDCP 2.2, HDMI 2.1, HEVC & UHD

[MasterChief86]

Lag, latency, response time

Lag, what's the best choice in terms of minimal response time? I'm more into fighters and in case anyone else follows them religiously too, they'd know everything in a fighter goes frame-by-frame. I did some research on TVs but that was last year and to no avail. The posts and articles i went through were more about big tvs and had more focus on gaming as a whole rather than response time.

 

[arcana75]

Trying to cut through all the marketing talk and hoping some experts can chime in. I'm looking for a 40-43" 4K panel that has HDR10 and WCG/10-bit dithering. However while HDR10 is easy enough to understand, WCG is not cuz the manufacturers name their colour tech differently.

Samsung calls their WCG/10-bit dithering "Quantum Dot Colour", this is what I understand. Their Series 6 panels don't have QDC, and any panel with QDC is 49" and larger.

LG calls it Colour Prime, and has 2 flavours Pro & Plus. From LG's own compare tool Plus lists "Billion Colours" while Pro does not. LG has a 43" Colour Prime Pro panel, but any panel with Colour Prime Plus is 49" and larger.

My question is, is Colour Prime Pro also 10-bit dithering, or is it just 10-bit colour? LG's own website shows marketing images that help and don't help at the same time:

Both Pro and Plus say (in their marketing images) to be better than BT/Rec 709, which itself specifies 8 and 10-bit colour, while the better specs like Rec 2020 specifies 10/12-bit colour. If based on their marketing, is Colour Prime Plus/Pro 10-bit colour?

And can 10-bit colour and 10-bit colour dithering be spoken in the same context? I understand dithering to be how the colour bandings can be made smoother and 10-bit dithering achieves better banding. However I don't know if there are panels out there that have 10-bit colour (ie can achieve 1 bil colours) but isn't able to do 10-bit dithering which is what Wide Colour Gamut is supposed to be about?

So for example, if a panel like Wasabi Mango says it can do 10-bit dithering, does this mean a Wasabi Mango panel has WCG? And if an LG panel doesn't say "Billion Colours", does that mean it can't do 10-bit dithering?

 

[86technie]

Trying to cut through all the marketing talk and hoping some experts can chime in. I'm looking for a 40-43" 4K panel that has HDR10 and WCG/10-bit dithering. However while HDR10 is easy enough to understand, WCG is not cuz the manufacturers name their colour tech differently.

Samsung calls their WCG/10-bit dithering "Quantum Dot Colour", this is what I understand. Their Series 6 panels don't have QDC, and any panel with QDC is 49" and larger.

LG calls it Colour Prime, and has 2 flavours Pro & Plus. From LG's own compare tool Plus lists "Billion Colours" while Pro does not. LG has a 43" Colour Prime Pro panel, but any panel with Colour Prime Plus is 49" and larger.

My question is, is Colour Prime Pro also 10-bit dithering, or is it just 10-bit colour? LG's own website shows marketing images that help and don't help at the same time:

Both Pro and Plus say (in their marketing images) to be better than BT/Rec 709, which itself specifies 8 and 10-bit colour, while the better specs like Rec 2020 specifies 10/12-bit colour. If based on their marketing, is Colour Prime Plus/Pro 10-bit colour?

And can 10-bit colour and 10-bit colour dithering be spoken in the same context? I understand dithering to be how the colour bandings can be made smoother and 10-bit dithering achieves better banding. However I don't know if there are panels out there that have 10-bit colour (ie can achieve 1 bil colours) but isn't able to do 10-bit dithering which is what Wide Colour Gamut is supposed to be about?

So for example, if a panel like Wasabi Mango says it can do 10-bit dithering, does this mean a Wasabi Mango panel has WCG? And if an LG panel doesn't say "Billion Colours", does that mean it can't do 10-bit dithering?

Wow, by far the most technical question to date.
Different manufacturers have their own TV tech and color engine
to drive the TV.

Even if you are concern about the TV color engine.
What about your contents?
Are they streaming or from ahem sources?

As streaming picture quality can never be that as good as Blu ray or UHD not to mention ahem sources.
My point is even you get the best TV with the best technical specifications.

What about the contents you play?
Not to mention not many tuned their TV after purchase to get the most out of it.

https://www.whathifi.com/advice/how-to-set-your-tv-and-get-best-picture

If you are pocket deep, ought to consider 4K projection.

 

[arcana75]

Wow, by far the most technical question to date.
Different manufacturers have their own TV tech and color engine
to drive the TV.

Even if you are concern about the TV color engine.
What about your contents?
Are they streaming or from ahem sources?

As streaming picture quality can never be that as good as Blu ray or UHD not to mention ahem sources.
My point is even you get the best TV with the best technical specifications.

What about the contents you play?
Not to mention not many tuned their TV after purchase to get the most out of it.

https://www.whathifi.com/advice/how-to-set-your-tv-and-get-best-picture

If you are pocket deep, ought to consider 4K projection.

Err.. bro, before we confused with the technical terms.
Where did you learn about HDR10/8? HDR10 tech used by
PS4.

TV that support HDR should be able to support HDR10 like I mention
the 2017 Sony Bravia TV lineup since it was intended to support HDR
for PS4.

FYI my PS4 is using Sony W700C, so far the color and picture quality is superb no issue with that.
The only advantage with a TV is much higher refresh rate than PC monitor and of cuz ability to use soundbar for gaming effects.

As far as Wide Colour Gamut support Sony Bravia with TRILUMINOS should have.
Buying a new TV, considering pricing is one thing but do take note:

- Does most PS4 games support native 4K?
The answer is no, most are still rendered in 1080p.
While some are upscale to 4K.
Thus a 4K for a PS4 Pro is not really a must, 1080p should do fine.

- Where is this TV located and the viewing distance?

X8000D is cheap as they are clearing for 2017 4K model.
By far your question is the most technical and confusing one.
As if you really want to know more about HDR10 and which TV
Support such format natively.

Guess you have to speak to Sony themselves about this,
in particular the technical team behind PS4 and TV.
Which means you have to write in and email to them.

Doubt any sales people can be that so technical to explain to you.
Even I myself can't answer as I do not manufacture/design
the PS4/TV.

You be the first to go technical deep while many do not want to
to avoid confusion.

HDR term is not misleading, consumer only knows HDR.
HDR have many formats, Dolby Vision, HDR10 and etc.
But only manufacturer themselves know.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-dynamic-range_video

Hi again techidiot.

Actually HDR can be done on 8-bit colour. With 8-bit colour u get banding issues for colour transition, but blacks and whites can still be good. HDR10 is 10-bit HDR, and paired with 10-bit colour, u get 1 billion colour range to play with. This I believe is partially why Samsung et al use HDR10 as their current marketing labeling, and for Samsung and LG, they've gone 1 step further to confuse by adding lighting brightness to it, eg Samsung's HDR1000 to indicate 10-bit HDR with 1000 nits, and LG's HDR4000 as 10-bit HDR + 4000 nits. There's currently only 2 HDR formats being promoted now, HDR (as a label) and Dolby Vision. LG's Colour Prime Plus will support both.

There are older panels that are non-4K that can do HDR. In marketing speak some use "True Blacks" or "Deeper Blacks" as a way to describe HDR but without 10-bit colour, those panels still had only 16m colours with 8-bit colour, and suffer from banding issues, even on greys.

The PS4 Pro does 10-bit HDR and WCG, and of course checkerbox 4K, but it's the 10-bit HDR and WCG that matters to me. With more expensive panels like the Samsung 7/8/9 series, I can be sure of getting HDR10/WCG, but the issue arises with cheaper/entry level panels like the Samsung Series 6, or the LG UH650T or the Sony W750E. I don't want to buy something only to find out it's not 10-bit HDR/WCG.

Hence my queries about LG's Colour Prime Pro/Plus, because LG themselves list their Colour Prime Plus as "1 Billion Colours" while their Colour Prime Pro does not. Does this mean their Colour Prime Pro is 8-bit colour aka 16.7m colours? According to rtings.com, their UH650 has 10-bit colour and HDR, which I assume is also 10-bit, but it does not have WCG. Why and is that possible? Is rtings.com wrong? Samsung's KU6300, according to rtings.com, does not support WCG, but it has HDR, which Samsung calls "HDR Premium" and I can only assume is HDR10, and 10-bit colour as well.

But Sony's X800D has HDR, 10-bit colour and WCG. This is according to rtings.com, and is buried under marketing talk.

So either I trust rtings.com implicitly, or I try to punch through the marketing talk:

Samsung HDR Premium = HDR10?
Samsung Pur Colour = 10-bit colour?
Samsung Active Crystal Colour = WCG?
LG HDR Pro = HDR10?
LG Colour Prime Pro = 10-bit colour?
LG Colour Prime Plus = WCG?
Sony HDR = HDR10?
Sony Live Colour = 10-bit colour?
Sony Triluminos = WCG?

 

[86technie]

Hi again techidiot.

Actually HDR can be done on 8-bit colour. With 8-bit colour u get banding issues for colour transition, but blacks and whites can still be good. HDR10 is 10-bit HDR, and paired with 10-bit colour, u get 1 billion colour range to play with. This I believe is partially why Samsung et al use HDR10 as their current marketing labeling, and for Samsung and LG, they've gone 1 step further to confuse by adding lighting brightness to it, eg Samsung's HDR1000 to indicate 10-bit HDR with 1000 nits, and LG's HDR4000 as 10-bit HDR + 4000 nits. There's currently only 2 HDR formats being promoted now, HDR (as a label) and Dolby Vision. LG's Colour Prime Plus will support both.

There are older panels that are non-4K that can do HDR. In marketing speak some use "True Blacks" or "Deeper Blacks" as a way to describe HDR but without 10-bit colour, those panels still had only 16m colours with 8-bit colour, and suffer from banding issues, even on greys.

The PS4 Pro does 10-bit HDR and WCG, and of course checkerbox 4K, but it's the 10-bit HDR and WCG that matters to me. With more expensive panels like the Samsung 7/8/9 series, I can be sure of getting HDR10/WCG, but the issue arises with cheaper/entry level panels like the Samsung Series 6, or the LG UH650T or the Sony W750E. I don't want to buy something only to find out it's not 10-bit HDR/WCG.

Hence my queries about LG's Colour Prime Pro/Plus, because LG themselves list their Colour Prime Plus as "1 Billion Colours" while their Colour Prime Pro does not. Does this mean their Colour Prime Pro is 8-bit colour aka 16.7m colours? According to rtings.com, their UH650 has 10-bit colour and HDR, which I assume is also 10-bit, but it does not have WCG. Why and is that possible? Is rtings.com wrong? Samsung's KU6300, according to rtings.com, does not support WCG, but it has HDR, which Samsung calls "HDR Premium" and I can only assume is HDR10, and 10-bit colour as well.

But Sony's X800D has HDR, 10-bit colour and WCG. This is according to rtings.com, and is buried under marketing talk.

So either I trust rtings.com implicitly, or I try to punch through the marketing talk:

Samsung HDR Premium = HDR10?
Samsung Pur Colour = 10-bit colour?
Samsung Active Crystal Colour = WCG?
LG HDR Pro = HDR10?
LG Colour Prime Pro = 10-bit colour?
LG Colour Prime Plus = WCG?
Sony HDR = HDR10?
Sony Live Colour = 10-bit colour?
Sony Triluminos = WCG?

Best is to email to them to ask.
Here even I can't comment cuz it is too technical deep.

 

[arcana75]

Best is to email to them to ask.
Here even I can't comment cuz it is too technical deep.

Thanks probably ask in AVS or NeoGAF instead.

 

[arcana75]

Good read, primer on all the new UHD concepts, explaining HDR, WCG, 10-bit colour, 4:4:4 chroma, etc.

http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/uhd-101-v2/

 

[cscs3]

I am an early adopter of technology normally, but I am concerned that bros here are touting the features of a 4k TV and thinking that buying into this will definitely give better picture quality.

The reality can be far from this.

As previously mentioned, your viewing distance matters. If one buys any 4k TV < 50", that means one will need to sit less than 2m, or less than one body length from the TV. You can't use the rule of thumb for HD sets, or you won't be able to enjoy the real benefit of 4k.

Another important concept is: garbage in, garbage out. If one buys a 4k TV to view SD pictures, it's going to look nasty.
Even if you use full HD, it may not be that good depending on the quality of the video chip used for upscaling.

Most members here don't even buy Blu Ray discs, and if you only watch 'HD' youtube or 4k youtube videos, then that 4k TV will be wasted.

It will be better to get a good full HD TV.

Don't fall prey to marketing speak!

Viewing distance is quite subjective. Also, once you get use to the big one. You do not like the small one anymore.

 

[cscs3]

invited by petetherock to share my experience of buying TV

1) Bring your own demos
Bring along your favourite Full 1080p HD videos or your fav 4K netflix video, about 5 minutes duration will do, in a flash drive
preferably videos which has colourful scenes, dark/black scenes and white scenes, fast moving actions scenes.

2) Viewing Distance & Viewing Height
stand in front of the tv at the estimated distance away from the TV. The distance simulate your living room's viewing distance.
View it from the height of you sitting down, usually at sofa height or chair height.

3) Choose the right TV together with your wife/husband.
This is SUPER important. because both of you will spend many hours watching the same tv. Its important that both of you are comfortable viewing it.

4) How many HDMI ports you need.
Cheaper LED TVs will usually have 1-2 HDMI ports. More expensive ones will have 3 to 5 HDMI ports. If you have many devices which need HDMI connections, then you might wanna consider getting a TV with more HDMI ports OR get a AV HDMI Amplifier
Also... I NEVER understand why some TV gives you 5 USB ports but only 2 HDMI ports

5) Energy Saving.
The number of "ticks" [more ticks. more saving. more expensive]

6) "Smart TV" or "Dumb TV"
You can access 1 million & 1 things if you HDMI your laptop or MiniPC or android TV box (mini-x / xiaomi tv, Apple TV) to your TV

7) DO NOT get distracted by the Salesman.
They are gonna be blabbering none stop, follow you around and trying to throw you tonnes of technical terms or "gimmick terms".
Judge with your eyes...

8) Switch and play around with the various colour mode.
From Normal to Movie to Sports to custom... This is also to test the TV and see if there's any "pixel bleeding" or "colour bleeding"

AND... which is why NO TV reseller will show really show Dark colour videos. Most of them will show colourful videos

9) Digital TV Sticker
Make sure the TV is Digital TV ready or has built-in DVB. You don't wanna spend extra money to get a separate DVB setup box

10) Viewing Angle
This is to check for a few things

1. Will the video or image becomes "washed out" if you are viewing from the sides? Some TVs have very narrow viewing angles. This is largely due to the quality of the LCD LED glass screens they are using.
2. Check for light reflection off the screen

And why is this important? When you invite friends, relatives and people over to your house, only 3-4 people can sit directly infront of the TV. The rest of them will sit slated facing the TV.

I'm sure You don't wanna be hearing comments like: "Why your TV picture so lousy one ah?" or "Why the light reflection of your TV screen so jia lat one ah?"Especially when you spent a few Ks on this TV.

11) Remember to test EVERY SINGLE FEATURE of the TV.
You are paying for it. Test it.
DO NOT get distracted by the Salesman.

12) 3D or Non-3D
You be the Judge

13) 4K or non-4K
As pricing for 4K TV continues to fall almost every week.
With your own eyes, start judging every single TV which falls within the Size range and Price range.

And of course, before you go down. Remember to do your home work first and understand all the technical & fancy terms such as:
- UHD
- ULTRA UHD
- 4K X-Reality Pro
- 4K 800Hz BMR refresh Rate
- True Black
- Deep Black
- Peak Illuminator
- precision Black
- Prefect Black, Prefect White
- OLED
- LCD LED (LED Backlight)
- YELLOW
- High Dynamic Range (HDR)
- TV refresh rate in Hz. What it means and what it does? Do TV really refresh THAT fast?

I like best on item 7.
Guess item 6 and 12 may be not so much now a day.
Last, item 5 on energy saving. Do also consider the standby power consumption which is not rated as part of the measurement. So TV use external PC type of power adapter. You will have much higher standby power consumption when TV is not in use.

Refresh rate - these are one selling method many years back. Mostly these are done via software. In the pass, high end TV can have native refresh rate of 200Hz for the panel. The software refresh rate can be double or multiple times of this number.
Now a day, most panel is 50/60Hz or higher end 100/120Hz for TV.

 

[cscs3]

Hi again techidiot.

Actually HDR can be done on 8-bit colour. With 8-bit colour u get banding issues for colour transition, but blacks and whites can still be good. HDR10 is 10-bit HDR, and paired with 10-bit colour, u get 1 billion colour range to play with. This I believe is partially why Samsung et al use HDR10 as their current marketing labeling, and for Samsung and LG, they've gone 1 step further to confuse by adding lighting brightness to it, eg Samsung's HDR1000 to indicate 10-bit HDR with 1000 nits, and LG's HDR4000 as 10-bit HDR + 4000 nits. There's currently only 2 HDR formats being promoted now, HDR (as a label) and Dolby Vision. LG's Colour Prime Plus will support both.

There are older panels that are non-4K that can do HDR. In marketing speak some use "True Blacks" or "Deeper Blacks" as a way to describe HDR but without 10-bit colour, those panels still had only 16m colours with 8-bit colour, and suffer from banding issues, even on greys.

The PS4 Pro does 10-bit HDR and WCG, and of course checkerbox 4K, but it's the 10-bit HDR and WCG that matters to me. With more expensive panels like the Samsung 7/8/9 series, I can be sure of getting HDR10/WCG, but the issue arises with cheaper/entry level panels like the Samsung Series 6, or the LG UH650T or the Sony W750E. I don't want to buy something only to find out it's not 10-bit HDR/WCG.

Hence my queries about LG's Colour Prime Pro/Plus, because LG themselves list their Colour Prime Plus as "1 Billion Colours" while their Colour Prime Pro does not. Does this mean their Colour Prime Pro is 8-bit colour aka 16.7m colours? According to rtings.com, their UH650 has 10-bit colour and HDR, which I assume is also 10-bit, but it does not have WCG. Why and is that possible? Is rtings.com wrong? Samsung's KU6300, according to rtings.com, does not support WCG, but it has HDR, which Samsung calls "HDR Premium" and I can only assume is HDR10, and 10-bit colour as well.

But Sony's X800D has HDR, 10-bit colour and WCG. This is according to rtings.com, and is buried under marketing talk.

So either I trust rtings.com implicitly, or I try to punch through the marketing talk:

Samsung HDR Premium = HDR10?
Samsung Pur Colour = 10-bit colour?
Samsung Active Crystal Colour = WCG?
LG HDR Pro = HDR10?
LG Colour Prime Pro = 10-bit colour?
LG Colour Prime Plus = WCG?
Sony HDR = HDR10?
Sony Live Colour = 10-bit colour?
Sony Triluminos = WCG?

Not sure about other samsung model. Their mid range and Q series is on HDR10+. The HDR"10" stand for 10 bits.
I took rtings as a reference only. They say they purchase TV on their own to do the test. Do you really think this is true?

Think some TV also support Dolby ATMOS. Any comment?

 

[petetherock]

A useful video on HDMI 2.1:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5zH8asMoSI&ab_channel=SoundUnitedTraining

 

[petetherock]