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farouk

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Don't we all need more money in our bank account ? Where does the money come from if the money supply don't expand ?

Money supply has to expand. That I do not contest. What I am worried about is the RATE at which money supply expands. Remember monetary policies are a result of political decision as much as it is an economic decision. This is what is happening with several governments around the world today.

The current administration could shore up money supply to prop economic growth at the detriment of future generations.

The sage of Omaha himself has loft confidence in the US dollar and is selling it on behalf of other currencies/ equities. He does not like gold though for reasons we all know very well.

Anyways the purpose of this thread is for me to share some knowledge on gold bullion coins, in particular gold dinars, for those who are into physical gold collections. If anyone would like to steer it back in this direction, I'm all for it.
 

Shiny Things

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(derp derp derp derp derp)
The trouble is that we all seem to have differing definitions of what inflation is. To me inflation is money printing and not price increases. Therefore on this basis inflation has already happened. I believe that price increases are a consequence of inflation.

What is your definition of inflation?

OK, it's too late for Shahmatt, but for the rest of you, here's what's wrong with his argument.

He's absolutely convinced of his position that "money printing will cause inflation therefore gold will go up". The problem is: the money printing's already happened (the money supply in the US has tripled since 2008), but the inflation hasn't (US inflation rates are stuck below 2%). (If you're interested in why this is, start with the wikipedia page for "velocity of money" and go from there.)

His solution: inflation hasn't happened, so... let's redefine inflation!

The problem is that what Shahmatt calls inflation (and the rest of the world calls "increasing the money supply") has no correlation with the price of gold. So he might turn out to be right - but if he does, it'll be purely by luck, not by any sort of skill.

(More than likely, he's going to turn out to be wrong - because when the Fed tapers and USD interest rates start to rise, the gold price will get whacked as people switch out of zero-yielding gold into relatively-high-yielding dollars. This is what happened in the nineties; gold even became a carry trade currency at times. People would sell XAU, buy USD, and pocket a 5% carry.)

And what Shahmatt might call "constant repetition of strongly held priors" is what the rest of the world calls "derp".
 

prophetjul

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OK, it's too late for Shahmatt, but for the rest of you, here's what's wrong with his argument.

He's absolutely convinced of his position that "money printing will cause inflation therefore gold will go up". The problem is: the money printing's already happened (the money supply in the US has tripled since 2008), but the inflation hasn't (US inflation rates are stuck below 2%). (If you're interested in why this is, start with the wikipedia page for "velocity of money" and go from there.)

His solution: inflation hasn't happened, so... let's redefine inflation!

The problem is that what Shahmatt calls inflation (and the rest of the world calls "increasing the money supply") has no correlation with the price of gold. So he might turn out to be right - but if he does, it'll be purely by luck, not by any sort of skill.

(More than likely, he's going to turn out to be wrong - because when the Fed tapers and USD interest rates start to rise, the gold price will get whacked as people switch out of zero-yielding gold into relatively-high-yielding dollars. This is what happened in the nineties; gold even became a carry trade currency at times. People would sell XAU, buy USD, and pocket a 5% carry.)

And what Shahmatt might call "constant repetition of strongly held priors" is what the rest of the world calls "derp".

Tapers? :s13:

"We currently have an unemployment rate of 7.6%, which I think, if anything, overstates the health of our labor markets, given participation rates, and many other indicators of underemployment, and long term unemployment. So we're not there under the maximum employment part of the mandate. On price stability, inflation is now about 1%, which below our 2% objective. So, both sides of our mandate, both the employment side, and the inflation side, are saying that we need to be more accommodative. ... Highly accommodative monetary policy for the foreseeable future is what's needed in the U.S. economy."- Ben
 

prophetjul

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My collection-part of

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2009GOLD20DOLLARULTRAHIGHRELIEFNGCMS70021510.jpg


2009_uhr.jpg
 

Shahmatt

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OK, it's too late for Shahmatt, but for the rest of you, here's what's wrong with his argument.

He's absolutely convinced of his position that "money printing will cause inflation therefore gold will go up". The problem is: the money printing's already happened (the money supply in the US has tripled since 2008), but the inflation hasn't (US inflation rates are stuck below 2%). (If you're interested in why this is, start with the wikipedia page for "velocity of money" and go from there.)

Velocity of money - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

His solution: inflation hasn't happened, so... let's redefine inflation!

The problem is that what Shahmatt calls inflation (and the rest of the world calls "increasing the money supply") has no correlation with the price of gold. So he might turn out to be right - but if he does, it'll be purely by luck, not by any sort of skill.

Inflation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I am not redefining anything.
 

prophetjul

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Backwardation

Warning for NAKED SHORTS :D

__________________________________________________________________________________________________


Gold futures hiccup indicates demand outpacing supply



July 19 (IFR) - A dislocation in the gold futures market indicating that demand for physical delivery of the metal is now far outweighing supply has intensified in recent weeks, increasing concern in the market that the change may not be a momentary blip and participants may have become over-leveraged.

Gold went into backwardation in comparison to the three-month futures contract in early January, meaning the spot price rose above the short-dated future contact. Now that process looks set to creep out the futures curve to longer-dated maturities, signalling some cause for alarm.

"The fact that has remained and widened ... indicates that the physical market has tightened up substantially, a postulation that is corroborated by the growing premiums being paid ... and the ongoing wholesale delays in the delivery of substantial bullion tonnage," wrote Ned Naylor-Leyland of Cheviot Asset Management in a report this month.

"What is happening now is that the absolutely inevitable 'run' on the 100:1 leveraged bullion banking system is truly underway."

Backwardation is a concern in gold markets because in theory demand for physical delivery should never outweigh supply, since the amount of available gold is a known, fixed quantity. The event is not unprecedented, as it also happened during the financial crisis of 2008 - and corrected itself the following year.
The current dislocation indicates that holders of gold futures have begun demanding delivery. But because of the large amount of leverage in the market, participants are not able to deliver on their obligations.

"More and more people want their gold today, at a higher price, no matter that they can buy a future much cheaper," said Guillermo Barba, economist at the New Austrian School of Economics in Mexico.

The high demand lately for spot physical delivery has played a part in the yellow metal's recent rebound from its low of US$1200 per troy ounce at the end of June to US$1283 on July 18. But analysts say it is difficult to determine both the cause of the backwardation and whether it will persist.

"It could be a whole range of factors; a bullion bank may have overcommitted in the physical market, miners have reinitiated hedging programs since the April price dive and have to borrow gold to hedge, and that may have cascaded up the chain of physical demand," said Robin Bhar, commodities strategist at Societe Generale.

"With the gold market you don't find out the reasoning or explanation for an event until days, weeks, or even months after the event. What's strange here is that a time of seasonal demand weakness we have strong physical demand and backwardation."

PRICE CONFUSION

The lack of data and understanding highlights the market's tenuous grasp on gold prices, a fact that was reinforced by Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke's response to a question regarding the metal's confusing price fluctuations on Wednesday.

"Nobody understands gold prices, and I don't really pretend to understand them either," he said.

Usually the price of gold is seen as a measure of confidence in central banks' ability to keep inflation under control, but some believe the shape of the futures curve has now become a more important barometer of market sentiment.

"The actual message of the backwardation is that there is behind the curtains a lack of confidence in the fiat monetary system, a de facto rejection of paper money by some people who prefer the real money (gold and silver)," said Barba.

"That's why a fall or rise in gold prices is not so relevant anymore. The monetary 'fire alarm' message, courtesy of the relationship between spot and futures prices, is: run for your gold, there is not enough for all."


CREEPING OUT THE CURVE

Some believe the current dislocation is only a blip, as in 2009. After all, only the spot versus three-month futures relationship is currently in backwardation, as opposed to spot compared to longer-dated futures contracts.

But since January, the short end of the curve has gone into backwardation increasingly earlier and earlier, indicating the trend may soon start to move further out the curve.

The April 2013 futures contract went into backwardation 30 trading days before April 1, while the June contract went into backwardation 42 trading days before June 1. The August contract turned over 55 days before August 1, and the October contract flipped on July 8, 61 trading days before October 1.

Over the short term, some expect backwardation will spark a squeeze on paper investors in the gold market as the physical demand will force traders looking to cover short positions to bid up the spot price in an effort to shore up inventories.

"The bullion banks want to get gold back into contango and stop the movement of the remaining inventories by shaking the market lower, using paper leverage to do so," wrote Naylor-Leyland.

"It hasn't worked, indeed more and more investors are now seeking allocation, delivery and physical metal at the expense of synthetic products offered by the banks. The squeeze we have been waiting for is closing in, it is always darkest just before dawn."


Gold futures hiccup indicates demand outpacing supply | Reuters
 

santacalus

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Gold? Warren Buffet isn't a fan of gold.

For me, I will eventually allocate 5 to 10% of my portfolio to gold bullion coins. As a small hedge/protection/insurance and also for collection/aesthetic admiration. But only at the right price, not the current inflated price. At current price, the downside danger is high. And it doesn't have any yield to mitigate some of that danger.
 

farouk

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Gold? Warren Buffet isn't a fan of gold.

For me, I will eventually allocate 5 to 10% of my portfolio to gold bullion coins. As a small hedge/protection/insurance and also for collection/aesthetic admiration. But only at the right price, not the current inflated price. At current price, the downside danger is high. And it doesn't have any yield to mitigate some of that danger.

Finally got to hear from a serious collector. What coins do you have santa
 

sanzhu

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Gold? Warren Buffet isn't a fan of gold.

For me, I will eventually allocate 5 to 10% of my portfolio to gold bullion coins. As a small hedge/protection/insurance and also for collection/aesthetic admiration. But only at the right price, not the current inflated price. At current price, the downside danger is high. And it doesn't have any yield to mitigate some of that danger.

Can buy gold?
 
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Just got my rare coin from Heritage Auction :o US minted these gold discs to pay Saudi Arabia for oil rights. Each disc contains the same gold content as four British sovereigns. This is a rare specimen as most were melted down into bullion.

Saudi%2BArabia%2B4%2BPound.png
 
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