Bonds investment

[Shion]

However some have pointed that the yield offered by SGS is low, and indeed it is lower than FD. Seems that need invest like 20 or 30 yrs to get higher yield.

Bonds ETF? Are these bonds, ETF or a combi? Thanks!

 

[w1rbelw1nd]

However some have pointed that the yield offered by SGS is low, and indeed it is lower than FD. Seems that need invest like 20 or 30 yrs to get higher yield.

Bonds ETF? Are these bonds, ETF or a combi? Thanks!

Don't think you quite get the definition of etfs... Etfs are just exchange traded funds. Can be synthetic or backed by real assets. Can track any asset classes like gold, stocks etc.

Bond etfs are just exchange traded funds that track the bond index that it is supposed to mirror, thats all...

 

[Milo-Dino]

Blue chip doesn't mean investment grade and I don't think genting is even rated. But I could be wrong. Need to check. Anyway, I am quoting the lower end for lower risk. Plus if you buy a fund, you spread out your risk instead on banking on only a few individual bonds. There are higher yield funds, risk just goes up that's all.

Eg. During the muddywater thing, olam bonds dived in value. So if you are caught holding it and you panicked (like yours truly), you lose quite a lot of money.

Caveat - investment grade doesn't mean sure safe. Black swan events can knock out investment grade bonds too. Case in point - Russian banks and more recently the oil prices.

U trade bonds?

I don't recommend retail to trade them. Bonds are meant to be bought n kept to maturity

Sent from Xiaomi MI 3W using GAGT

 

[Shion]

Thanks thanks...

Shall do some more research on this

 

[SpeedingBullet]

sigh.. my only bond is being redeemed

AAA, High yield, and in USD summore.. best deal out there

 

[Milo-Dino]

AAA, High yield, and in USD summore.. best deal out there

Ya lor... Too bad no more liao

How's u Bro? Ns over?

Sent from Xiaomi MI 3W using GAGT

 

[wondrdoggie]

holding :

Ezra 8.75%
Rickmer 8.45%
Pacific Andes 8.5%
Swiber 9.75%

Wow, gutsy bro... your bond portfolio is 100% unrated and small issue sizes. Mine used to be similar when I started, but have since been convinced by my PB to limit junk to 20%-30%

 

[wondrdoggie]

U trade bonds?

I don't recommend retail to trade them. Bonds are meant to be bought n kept to maturity

Sent from Xiaomi MI 3W using GAGT

I don't trade bonds and I am not retail. Like you said, I hold to maturity and now largely ignore the secondary market. For olam's case, I was very new to investing at that point of time, so panicked and sold. Lost like 20k of principle if I remember correctly but mitigated by coupons already paid out.

 

[wondrdoggie]

ya

if wanna be safe then SGS
or bond etfs

individual corporate bonds more for higher risk appetite people or those with cheap financing

those under private banking can get 2% or less financing to do carry trade

Personally I don't leverage when i buy sgd products, bonds included. I only leverage when I buy non sgd bonds/products, using the loan as a hedge against fx risk. PB loans are cheap, it's cost of funds + 0.65 to 1.25% (this is the range I am aware of) spread depending on your relationship with the bank.

 

[pattanispirit]

wah GG man

when u bought it?

if recently ok

if long ago buy then super under water right

some bot for a while, some recently.

anyway, most will expire in 2016, 17 and will get back full 100% as long as coy don't go bust.

I sometimes will buy SGS too
but now the rates super low

https://secure.sgs.gov.sg/fdanet/SgsBenchmarkIssuePrices.aspx

1 year bonds the yield 0.70% only

I rather put inside fixed deposit 1 year get 1.5%

singapore market kinda sucks, when FD has higher yield than government bonds... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

SGS bond likely for foreigners like bolehland, indon, etc who want to insure against their own currency depreciation.

my bolehland friend keep his coy cash in SGD instead of ringgit.

 

[focus1974]

I don't trade bonds and I am not retail. Like you said, I hold to maturity and now largely ignore the secondary market. For olam's case, I was very new to investing at that point of time, so panicked and sold. Lost like 20k of principle if I remember correctly but mitigated by coupons already paid out.

Actually, Private banking also considered retail customers.
Institution and family office then might be considered not retail.

 

[SpeedingBullet]

Ya lor... Too bad no more liao

How's u Bro? Ns over?

Sent from Xiaomi MI 3W using GAGT

im good, only bond i have is that CMT bond ahahaha.

long ago over loh, now in UK studying. Thats why rarely come in here or trade (SGX closes by the time i wake up =.=).. got sexams to study for

Actually, Private banking also considered retail customers.
Institution and family office then might be considered not retail.

Yup, but for certain UHNWI that can apply like $20m worth for allocations, their sizing is just as big as small institutions/companies .

 

[Perisher]

im good, only bond i have is that CMT bond ahahaha.

long ago over loh, now in UK studying. Thats why rarely come in here or trade (SGX closes by the time i wake up =.=).. got sexams to study for



Yup, but for certain UHNWI that can apply like $20m worth for allocations, their sizing is just as big as small institutions/companies .

Is the bond TY6Z? I only have that CMT bond.

 

[focus1974]

Yup, but for certain UHNWI that can apply like $20m worth for allocations, their sizing is just as big as small institutions/companies .

yup.. if you can put $20mil in bond.. based on a conservative 50% weightage in your portfolio.
it is also $40mil investable assets.

definitely can park into a multi-family office suite already.

but you are right.. HNW also got lots of level. . jin emo .. hope i can breakthru to that level within the next 10yrs..
i think wondrodoggie got a very very high chance coz he's so actively invovled in private equity.. just need to IPO One of his investment... he huat big big liao

 

[Obama486]

Bakrie Telecom debt ploy exposes new foreign investor pitfall in Indonesia | TODAYonline


as long as dun kanna smelly indo bonds can liao LOL

 

[Obama486]

yup.. if you can put $20mil in bond.. based on a conservative 50% weightage in your portfolio.
it is also $40mil investable assets.

definitely can park into a multi-family office suite already.

but you are right.. HNW also got lots of level. . jin emo .. hope i can breakthru to that level within the next 10yrs..
i think wondrodoggie got a very very high chance coz he's so actively invovled in private equity.. just need to IPO One of his investment... he huat big big liao

slowly lor

2 mil and up can open private banking account liao ^_^

 

[Obama486]

im good, only bond i have is that CMT bond ahahaha.

long ago over loh, now in UK studying. Thats why rarely come in here or trade (SGX closes by the time i wake up =.=).. got sexams to study for



Yup, but for certain UHNWI that can apply like $20m worth for allocations, their sizing is just as big as small institutions/companies .

if the UHNWI is a china billionaire business man, he alone can eat the whole issue liao LOL

 

[wondrdoggie]

yup.. if you can put $20mil in bond.. based on a conservative 50% weightage in your portfolio.
it is also $40mil investable assets.

definitely can park into a multi-family office suite already.

but you are right.. HNW also got lots of level. . jin emo .. hope i can breakthru to that level within the next 10yrs..
i think wondrodoggie got a very very high chance coz he's so actively invovled in private equity.. just need to IPO One of his investment... he huat big big liao

Oops! I thought broad definition of retail is man on the street buying 1k qty and while PB is not exactly institution, it's under accreditated investor category. But yes, logically speaking individuals using PB are technically retail also because they are not orgs. I am kinda new at this. Haha

Thought of family office but frankly it's tricky. Whole family must agree to same investment philosophy and someone be in charge of monitoring the office manager. A lot of potential for conflict. So unless the family fortune is in hundreds of millions and the older pple don't trust the younger ones, probably better doing things indivually. However, I do know people with hundreds of millions that still don't have family offices. Everything do themselves.

And actually I am not a "he". Female here.

Happy new year, everyone!

 

[focus1974]

And actually I am not a "he". Female here.

Happy new year, everyone!

Oh.. I always thought you were a "HE" and SHiny is a "SHE".. paisay... paisay..
HUAT AH! HAPPY NEW YeaR ALL !

 

[SpeedingBullet]

yup.. if you can put $20mil in bond.. based on a conservative 50% weightage in your portfolio.
it is also $40mil investable assets.

definitely can park into a multi-family office suite already.

but you are right.. HNW also got lots of level. . jin emo .. hope i can breakthru to that level within the next 10yrs..
i think wondrodoggie got a very very high chance coz he's so actively invovled in private equity.. just need to IPO One of his investment... he huat big big liao

yeah, and with a big order, the PB will defo give you better spreads and higher allocations.

Oops! I thought broad definition of retail is man on the street buying 1k qty and while PB is not exactly institution, it's under accreditated investor category. But yes, logically speaking individuals using PB are technically retail also because they are not orgs. I am kinda new at this. Haha

Thought of family office but frankly it's tricky. Whole family must agree to same investment philosophy and someone be in charge of monitoring the office manager. A lot of potential for conflict. So unless the family fortune is in hundreds of millions and the older pple don't trust the younger ones, probably better doing things indivually. However, I do know people with hundreds of millions that still don't have family offices. Everything do themselves.

And actually I am not a "he". Female here.

Happy new year, everyone!

Wah, singapore-based PE fund? Only know like 1 or 2 here

Family offices usually will hire one lawyer/wealth manager to manage for them, quite passive. Children just sit back, relax, go to pte schools and buy expensive sh1t.

Those active ones are like the Cargill-Macmillan family in the US with billions to play with, setup numerous hedge funds let ppl use their $$.