buy Yubikey

firesong

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yeap and im also a prime member so great!
Best to find out if it supports the right standards before purchasing though. But I'm glad I got my keys eventually.

I had a nightmare of a time many years ago when I lost access to my accounts after changing phones cos I lost my old phone, and I was using a software-based TOTP authenticator then. It was so much hassle to take it down and set it up all over again that I refused to go back to using any software-based ones. In fact, my Blizzard account is still locked cos I haven't gotten around to fixing it.

Duo seems quite good, but because I got burnt badly once, I'm hesitant to rely on anything software-based again. Hardware keys are better, for sure!

I thought NFC would be a gimmick, but it works well on iOS and Android, so great. No need to get a Lightning port version just for the iPhone.
 

kakaBoBo

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the key is not that durable.
would suggest that u get at least 2 for redundancy planning
 

theAnonymous

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The keys I recommended are hardware based, not app based. Solokeys ran at least 2 crowdfunding campaigns for their keys too, and gained quite a reputation there.

Yubikey's OTP is using their proprietary app to generate the TOTP keys.

I secure my accounts fine with my Feitian keys. I have friends who use Thecus, Titan, and Solokeys. We don't have issues. The only thing we need to look out for is the support for FIDO2 + Webauthn/U2F and it's all good.

The Titan Keys by Google was first made by Yubikeys many years ago (since 2012 iirc), but was switched to Feitian in 2018. That's when I noticed this brand. I still watched for 2y before committing to buying 2 Feitian keys for myself.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/30/google-titan-made-by-chinese-company-feitian.html
wat is the diff between feitian and yubikey actually? wat made u choose feitian instead of yubikey?
 

firesong

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the key is not that durable.
would suggest that u get at least 2 for redundancy planning
Yeah. So if it's going to have to be replaced in time, would you pay $90 for a Yubikey or a $30 with a standards-compliant equivalent?
 

firesong

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wat is the diff between feitian and yubikey actually? wat made u choose feitian instead of yubikey?
Yubikey is the company that made this kind of keys popular and kickstarted the adoption of this. Over time, they recognised the need for making this kind of 2FA a standard, and so were the original collaborators to define the standard. This is around 2008 or so (I recall first hearing about hardware keys around then since I was still active in the tech industry then)

In 2013, the FIDO alliance was formed to work on the universal standards. And the standards continued to develop and be aligned, Yubikey included. Over time, the standard evolved to FIDO2 + U2F, and then the W3C collaborated and brought Webauthn into the fold. This allowed for technologies like Microsoft Windows Hello to be developed around this standard.

I started to really notice alternative keys when I chanced upon the first Solokeys kickstarter campaign. IIRC, I could have bought a key for $20 or so, but I was concerned about using cheap rubber casings. This was about the time when Webauthn was still not really part of the standard, so it was FIDO2+U2F iirc. Still I waited and stuck to using SMS 2FA since SMS hijacking wasn't so common then. By this time I was already burnt by losing my phone and access to so many accounts.

All through that period, I was using password managers to improve security by having unique passwords for each site, but it was still riskily secured by email, which was secured by SMS 2FA. At the back of my mind, I would occasionally look at security keys but could not justify a $200 expense that had limited mileage.

Eventually, when the Singtel hijacking incident happened last year and was published in the news, I decided I couldn't rely on SMS anymore. We couldn't even rely on our mobile operators to protect our mobile accounts. With the spate of online accounts being compromised (thanks HIBP!), I figure it's time to jump. This was when I started reading up and doing more intense research, solely out of a desire to protect my online accounts.

Of course, like anyone else, I thought to buy a Yubikey. It's an established brand, and it's got decent mileage. Then I confirmed I had to buy at least 2, since Google's Advanced Protection Program requires a minimum of two keys - even though I was already advised previously to have a main and a spare so I wouldn't be locked out of my accounts. I also wanted NFC, since it was more convenient to use NFC authentication with phones. Doing my research, I realised the technologies had matured very much, and even Yubikey sign ons were all on the FIDO2+Webauthn or U2F standard, except for some proprietary implementations that used their APIs or required their app TOTP implementation. I took a shot and asked around, and to my surprise one of my friends was using the Google Titan which he bought while in the USA, and he told me it was based on the Feitian keys. Then another friend told me about the Solokeys Tap, and shared that the NFC worked well, but the rubber skin kept peeling off over time so it was troublesome.

In short, I happened to browse to Amazon one day, saw the Feitian K9 and K40 keys were $29.xx each compared to the $91 5C non-NFC, and decided I'll just buy two and see how it goes. Since then, I've not regretted not going with Yubikeys since it works flawlessly. I've also gotten another friend onboard this security crusade.

Because I know that I'll be keeping the main key on my keyring, it's expected to spoil over time. A $30 replacement is much easier to justify than a $90 equivalent, especially when it's functionally identical for the way I use it. Hence I stuck with standards-compliance. To use an analogy we all can relate to, Apple folks are stuck in the walled garden and pay to stay within it - I did not want to make that mistake with security keys that secure my accounts.


=

So in short, the similarities:
- Full FIDO2 standards compliant
- Webauthn and U2F

The differences:
- Yubikey has better apps (not really necessary from a hardware key POV)
- Yubikey has TOTP rather than HOTP, but this is dependent on the app to generate the TOTP keys.
- Cost was 3x for functional equivalent.
- Yubikey 5C NFC is thinner, but not really a dealbreaker for me.

All the sites and apps I use are secured by FIDO2+Webauthn or FIDO2+U2F. So I don't even bother with the HOTP features or PIV smartcard features. But they are available if I want to turn them on. The Feitian App is REALLY UGLY though. :s13:
Of course, the reviews from other buyers helped to convince me to try it also:

 

firesong

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Just took a screenshot of the ugly Feitian utility:


You can see the features you can turn on/off if requested:
- CCID (ie, Smartcard PIV)
- OTP (only HOTP, not TOTP - this is sequentially serialised so, as previously pointed out, accidental presses means the number keeps running, so it requires constant resync to fix if you habitually hit the button, which will happen if you leave it in your pocket on a keyring like I do)
- U2F - the main one.

I just left it at the default U2F+(H)OTP without switching.
 

firesong

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@theAnonymous To add to the earlier reply, as for FIDO Alliance certification level, the Solokeys, Feitian, Yubikeys, heck even Android and Microsoft Windows Hello are all at the exact same Level 1 certification:



 

firesong

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@firesong

i bought 2 x feitian k40 nfc but my s21u dun seems to be able to read both my keys

why ah ?
Hmm? In what sense?

I have no problems using NFC on iPhone 7, 11, Pixel 4a, Samsung S9+, and Note 9 and S20+. Tested across a few phones in the past few months.

iPhone 7 was a bit tricky but it works.
 

stupidog

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Hmm? In what sense?

I have no problems using NFC on iPhone 7, 11, Pixel 4a, Samsung S9+, and Note 9 and S20+. Tested across a few phones in the past few months.

iPhone 7 was a bit tricky but it works.
Like when the 1password app ask me to tap behind to login... I tried the whole phone also can't scan by nfc. Both keys also cannot leh. Dunno why

Anyway to test the keys nfc?
 

firesong

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Like when the 1password app ask me to tap behind to login... I tried the whole phone also can't scan by nfc. Both keys also cannot leh. Dunno why

Anyway to test the keys nfc?
Use the Ezlink/Flashpay app to test where your NFC sensor is.

Just tested on a Note 9. It worked with Bitwarden and Facebook.
 
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