calling all miles expert

[hwmook]

Even with zero late payment fees, pay Credit Card to buy appliances or pay for something is already paid certain premium compared with pay by Cash. Almost for all home appliances, you can find and order them in neighborhood shop and pay by Cash with certain discounts.
If you can settle a wedding diner with full Cash and getting a discount, the saving is far more then Credit Card rebate.

Did you try and compare? I have done 2 reno over the past 8 years and have done a lot of comparison between stores. In general, neighbourhood shops does not give a better price. You see those big stores listed price is chop carrot price, you need to ask and bargain down. From my experience, they can usually go down to a lower price which neighbourhood store cannot match. If you don't want to bargain then neighbourhood shops might quote a lower price.

 

[BBCWatcher]

TS ask for advice from like-minded persons who like to collect miles.
in the end the thread is filled with replies from people who don't collect miles.

If you're serious, where's the evidence for your assertion? I happen to think the replies are generally quite thoughtful and have some depth to them. In other words, they seem like they're from mile collectors who are explaining common hazards and valuation metrics to try to be helpful to the original poster.

As it happens, I redeemed some credit card points yesterday for an airline ticket. But so what?

 

[DevilPlate]

Even with zero late payment fees, pay Credit Card to buy appliances or pay for something is already paid certain premium compared with pay by Cash. Almost for all home appliances, you can find and order them in neighborhood shop and pay by Cash with certain discounts.
If you can settle a wedding diner with full Cash and getting a discount, the saving is far more then Credit Card rebate.

I long time never shop at those HDB neighbourhood shop…..really offer discount on cash payment?

 

[DevilPlate]

Did you try and compare? I have done 2 reno over the past 8 years and have done a lot of comparison between stores. In general, neighbourhood shops does not give a better price. You see those big stores listed price is chop carrot price, you need to ask and bargain down. From my experience, they can usually go down to a lower price which neighbourhood store cannot match. If you don't want to bargain then neighbourhood shops might quote a lower price.

Big stores like Courts/Gaincity?
Never know can bargain with them!

 

[reddevil0728]

Big stores like Courts/Gaincity?
Never know can bargain with them!

If buy a number of things can get like a “better deal”

 

[CrashWire]

TS ask for advice from like-minded persons who like to collect miles.
in the end the thread is filled with replies from people who don't collect miles.

I think it's the people who collect miles the longest that know how hard it is to redeem.

Lots of finfluenza love talking about how to earn, earn, earn (because they earn kickbacks from SingSaver), but very few will talk about how to burn, burn, burn (well). Except when they want to flex their own J/F trip.

If people ask if they should collect miles, I always say no. Some of them still stupidly collect only to burn it on SQ economy cash fares at 1 cent per point.

 

[BBCWatcher]

If people ask if they should collect miles, I always say no. Some of them still stupidly collect only to burn it on SQ economy cash fares at 1 cent per point.

But that’s not necessarily “stupid.” It could be quite smart.

Again, an airline seat is only worth what YOU would pay for it in cash — your bid price. The airline’s asking price is irrelevant for valuation and most other purposes.

Just to keep things simple, let’s suppose you want to fly to Tokyo, you’re definitely going to take the trip (maybe it’s a funeral to attend), the following best offers are available, and you have 150,000 points:

• Economy class cash fare: $800
• Economy class points fare: 60,000 plus $200 (surcharges, taxes)
• Business class cash fare: $3,900
• Business class points fare: 120,000 plus $300

So you should redeem 120,000 points and get the business class seat, right? No, not necessarily or even very often. Let’s suppose this prospective passenger (you) would only ever pay $1,200 (+$400) in cash for that business class seat. YOUR cash bid price is what it’s actually worth — not what the airline is asking for that seat. Thus if you’re going to redeem points/miles you’d pick the 60,000 point ticket (your value: 1¢ per point/mile in this example), not the 120,000 point ticket (your value: 0.75¢ per point/mile in this example).(*)

If you’re a person who routinely buys business class tickets using your own cash, OK, maybe airlines’ business class asking prices are generally closer to your own valuations. But that’s not most people.

(*) Actual valuations are typically lower than these “naive” estimates because cash tickets often earn miles and award tickets don’t. Also, cash tickets often contribute to potential elite status and award tickets often don’t.

 

[BBCWatcher]

Even with zero late payment fees, pay Credit Card to buy appliances or pay for something is already paid certain premium compared with pay by Cash.…

There are also some countries — Australia comes to mind — where credit card surcharges are open and routinely added to bills. Cash discounts and credit card surcharges don‘t necessarily disqualify credit cards. (The last time I was in Australia they didn’t for me. I hold a couple very good cards that outrun the typical ~1.3% credit card surcharges there.) But they should be factored into your analysis.

 

[BBCWatcher]

Just to underscore the importance of using your own personal valuations, here’s a current example of a credit card signup incentive….

Receive a light weight (3.4kg), expandable Samsonite INTERLACE Spinner 67/24 EXP (worth S$520) when you apply for a new Maybank Credit Card….

Is that luggage actually worth $520? Of course not! First of all, you probably have to visit a redemption center between 2:30 and 3.15 PM every other Tuesday and stand in a queue for 45 minutes to collect the luggage. (Or something like that.) But more importantly it’s probably worth to you $100 at best. (Or, if you don‘t currently need luggage, it’s worth whatever you’d get on Carousel. $50 maybe, on a good day?) The same is true with credit card point/mile awards — they’re worth only what you’d personally pay in cash in the alternative, adjusted downward for the factors I mentioned previously such as lost interest and “wastage.”

The point/mile games themselves help airlines collect some revenue for seats they typically wouldn’t otherwise sell. In the example above the airline probably won’t (barely) fill business class at $3,900 per seat. But it can selectively discount one or a couple of those seats and collect $1,500 each (assuming the airline sells their miles for 1¢ each) — which is better than leaving the seats empty. In other words, even the airline doesn’t value its own business class seat at $3,900 in this example. But the airline’s valuation and asking prices don’t matter. Only your personal valuation does.

 

[fr33d0m]

But that’s not necessarily “stupid.” It could be quite smart.

Again, an airline seat is only worth what YOU would pay for it in cash — your bid price. The airline’s asking price is irrelevant for valuation and most other purposes.

Just to keep things simple, let’s suppose you want to fly to Tokyo, you’re definitely going to take the trip (maybe it’s a funeral to attend), the following best offers are available, and you have 150,000 points:

• Economy class cash fare: $800
• Economy class points fare: 60,000 plus $200 (surcharges, taxes)
• Business class cash fare: $3,900
• Business class points fare: 120,000 plus $300

So you should redeem 120,000 points and get the business class seat, right? No, not necessarily or even very often. Let’s suppose this prospective passenger (you) would only ever pay $1,200 (+$400) in cash for that business class seat. YOUR cash bid price is what it’s actually worth — not what the airline is asking for that seat. Thus if you’re going to redeem points/miles you’d pick the 60,000 point ticket (your value: 1¢ per point/mile in this example), not the 120,000 point ticket (your value: 0.75¢ per point/mile in this example).(*)

If you’re a person who routinely buys business class tickets using your own cash, OK, maybe airlines’ business class asking prices are generally closer to your own valuations. But that’s not most people.

(*) Actual valuations are typically lower than these “naive” estimates because cash tickets often earn miles and award tickets don’t. Also, cash tickets often contribute to potential elite status and award tickets often don’t.

If business class only costs 400 more, I will take the business class, no doubt in my mind.

my personal valuation of business class is around twice the price of economy, the longer it gets, the higher the multiplier is. For shorter flight, like SIN-KUL, really no point for biz.

 

[BBCWatcher]

If business class only costs 400 more, I will take the business class, no doubt in my mind.

OK.

my personal valuation of business class is around twice the price of economy, the longer it gets, the higher the multiplier is. For shorter flight, like SIN-KUL, really no point for biz.

In the example above it’s a Singapore-Tokyo-Singapore return ticket. All-cash advertised fares are $800 in economy class and $3,900 in business class. If you personally would pay up to $800 extra in cash for business class ($1,600 in total) for this itinerary then you personally might favor the 120,000 point award ticket (if you’re going to redeem points at all). For 60,000 points you’d get a discount of $600 off the economy class ticket, but for 120,000 points you’d get an effective discount of $1,300 off the business class ticket — a little better value per point.

Whether you actually redeem points for this itinerary (instead of just paying cash for the economy class ticket) is an open question. For example, you might think you could do better on a future redemption, or you might have some points expiring soon. But your personal valuation of points for this itinerary would be a bit below 1.083¢ per point. YMMV.

 

[hwmook]

Big stores like Courts/Gaincity?
Never know can bargain with them!

Yes, courts, gaincity, Harvey norman, best denki, megadiscount store. Their price tag is not the true selling price. An example of a fridge I bought many years back. Official retail price is around $5499, price tag put discount price $4899. You ask salesman he quote $4600, eventually I got the fridge at $4200. You go to neighborhood shop, the best price pay cash give you $4500. You would think neighborhood shop give better price but it's not true, those big stores got deep pockets to cut price down, you just need to keep squeezing them.

 

[lousylah]

Should post/move thread to credit card sub-forum for more appropriate audience

 

[hwmook]

There are also some countries — Australia comes to mind — where credit card surcharges are open and routinely added to bills. Cash discounts and credit card surcharges don‘t necessarily disqualify credit cards. (The last time I was in Australia they didn’t for me. I hold a couple very good cards that outrun the typical ~1.3% credit card surcharges there.) But they should be factored into your analysis.

Nowadays it's very uncommon to see credit surcharges in Australia. I use my credit card everywhere in Australia, never spend more than AUD300 in cash and that is mainly due to washing machines need cash.

 

[hwmook]

If business class only costs 400 more, I will take the business class, no doubt in my mind.

my personal valuation of business class is around twice the price of economy, the longer it gets, the higher the multiplier is. For shorter flight, like SIN-KUL, really no point for biz.

Same as me, I personally value biz at twice the price of economy so using miles make sense to redeem biz to me but not paying cash which is easily 3-4x.

 

[BBCWatcher]

Nowadays it's very uncommon to see credit surcharges in Australia.

I was in Australia quite recently. Credit card surcharges were common at least where I was. Not quite universal but much more common than not.

Speaking of cash, ATM operator fees are practically universal in Australia, although I have a workaround.

 

[limster]

I think it's the people who collect miles the longest that know how hard it is to redeem.

it depends what flight they want. some destinations harder to get than others? maybe i'm lucky I like travelling to Japan, and there are plenty of available redemption tickets.

like I mentioned, I redeemed 3 return economy tix to Japan for next year: 43,200 miles per tix.

If you have a 4mpd card, that means $10,800 spending on qualifying categories can get you one return tix to Japan.

If you like dining out and use Kris+ to pay, you can earn bonus miles and there are regular promotions. For example, in October iSteaks you can earn 9mpd stackable with your credit card bonus (3/4mpd) for a total of 12-13mpd.

https://milelion.com/2025/10/01/kri...-to-13-mpd-at-40-dining-and-retail-merchants/

Finally, even Scoot flights can earn miles now... but the miles earned by themselves not enough to redeem flight, but these extra miles can help reduce the amount of credit card spend you need to redeem your next air tix.

 

[BBCWatcher]

If you have a 4mpd card, that means $10,800 spending on qualifying categories can get you one return tix to Japan.

And that’s not bad. A 1.7% cash rebate card (such as MariBank’s) would yield about $184 in the alternative. If you’d ordinarily pay cash for a return air ticket to Tokyo, that’s about double the price (ZipAir, nonstop, random dates next month). In this situation you’re better off with the miles/points card. (Unless the card’s annual fee in unavoidable and kills the deal?)

 

[DevilPlate]

it depends what flight they want. some destinations harder to get than others? maybe i'm lucky I like travelling to Japan, and there are plenty of available redemption tickets.

like I mentioned, I redeemed 3 return economy tix to Japan for next year: 43,200 miles per tix.

If you have a 4mpd card, that means $10,800 spending on qualifying categories can get you one return tix to Japan.

If you like dining out and use Kris+ to pay, you can earn bonus miles and there are regular promotions. For example, in October iSteaks you can earn 9mpd stackable with your credit card bonus (3/4mpd) for a total of 12-13mpd.

https://milelion.com/2025/10/01/kri...-to-13-mpd-at-40-dining-and-retail-merchants/

Finally, even Scoot flights can earn miles now... but the miles earned by themselves not enough to redeem flight, but these extra miles can help reduce the amount of credit card spend you need to redeem your next air tix.

Like so troublesome…..

UOB One card for instance if u play with their rebate calculator can get about $700+ a year for 1k spending/mth

 

[reddevil0728]

Like so troublesome…..

UOB One card for instance if u play with their rebate calculator can get about $700+ a year for 1k spending/mth

Or look at it in another way.

some people would prefer to not pay for biz, but don’t mind redeeming a biz?