Can PR go to command school?

[reddevil0728]

Not really. They maybe the 2G PR or get Tuition Grants for their education which they are force to serve NSF or vomit out the total amount of education fees.

Not all PR are siao on. The same commission officer (with the rank of LTA) who is a PR that cross over from SISPEC that I mention earlier inform me that he is force to serve NSF because of his Tuition Grants for his education in Singapore. After he have ORD, he decided to live in Malaysia & work in Singapore to avoid Reservist duties.

Even if you are a 2G PR, you can give up your PR and don't serve. You are obliged to serve, but if you are willing to forgo your PR I dun see why what bugmenot45 said can't be true?

And well too bad lor. you jolly well know if you take tuition grants u gotta serve. sucks to be you, though as a PR I believe you can still give up your PR and just go back to your home country and never come back to singapore.

 

[Kyoji83]

Even if you are a 2G PR, you can give up your PR and don't serve. You are obliged to serve, but if you are willing to forgo your PR I dun see why what bugmenot45 said can't be true?

And well too bad lor. you jolly well know if you take tuition grants u gotta serve. sucks to be you, though as a PR I believe you can still give up your PR and just go back to your home country and never come back to singapore.

Who are the 'you' that you are talking about? Me or the commission officer?

I don't think PR (about age of 11 or 12 year old) can just forgo it after getting benefits such as tuition grants for his education unless he is willing to pay back his benefits in full amount.

 

[reddevil0728]

Who are the 'you' that you are talking about? Me or the commission officer?

I don't think PR (about age of 11 or 12 year old) can just forgo it after getting benefits such as tuition grants for his education unless he is willing to pay back his benefits in full amount.

it's just giving a general example -.-

I think you got confused with a Singapore Citizen. From what I know the cut of date is like you say (11 or 12), if you continue to enjoy the benefits of a citizen after that you are liable for national service and if you run away you are committing a crime.

While for PR, you obliged to serve since you have gotten the benefits as a PR, however if you so decide no to serve and you are willing to give up your PR, i believe you are not committing a crime but you must know that any future chances of seeking a PR or work permit or employment pass or what not will probably be next to impossible.

 

[bugmenot45]

Not really. They maybe the 2G PR or get Tuition Grants for their education which they are force to serve NSF or vomit out the total amount of education fees.

While for PR, you obliged to serve since you have gotten the benefits as a PR, however if you so decide no to serve and you are willing to give up your PR, i believe you are not committing a crime

This is true. It is not a crime. I mean, honestly, what can the sg govt do to these people? They can just run back to their home countries to avoid NS. You think the sg govt will go chase them in their home countries? the sg govt has no legal authority when dealing with foreign citizens in foreign countries.

but you must know that any future chances of seeking a PR or work permit or employment pass or what not will probably be next to impossible.

not entirely true... a quick google search and you'll find stories which show otherwise:

Hi there - I wanted to ask some questions on behalf of my husband:

a) He grew up largely in Singapore and was a second generation PR
b) His parents were first generation PR when he got his 2nd generation PR and are still PRs (have not yet opted for citizenship but could choose to do so)
c) Me, his wife, has never lived in Singapore and has no ties to the country.

We are looking to relocate and he has choices of job offers in Singapore and another country, both of which are appealing. He likes the job in Singapore a lot though and loves the place having grown up there. He had to renounce his PR pre-NS at the age of around 18 for extenuating personal circumstances and went overseas to study. This was in 2001.

Big question - I would love to move to Singapore. He also would love to move back. The Singapore company was willing to apply for his EP to see if it gets approved (due to the obvious discussions on this board that say it's more difficult since he renounced PR prior to NS). The company applied and he got the EP which we were very pleasantly surprised. He is highly skilled in his field of work and I believe the company put up a very good case. He is extremely keen to join the company in Singapore. He also has a good choice of job in another country which he is happy taking as well.

Singapore Expats Forum View topic - Renounced PR, re-enter with EP

I would like the opinion or real life cases regarding the renewal of Re Entry Permit for those PRS who surrender the PR of their sons just before enlistment to avoid National Service. This is for my friend. The details of the case are as under.
The friend, his spouse, son and daughter are PRS in Singapore since 1998. He came to Singapore when his son was 4 years old. The daughter was born here. The son had his education in Singapore local schools and finished his A level in NUS High School. He is a brilliant student and wanted to continue his higher education in Canada. He was registered for NS and his enlistment was to be in Mar 2012. In Feb 12, he surrendered his PR and he was given a LVP after a lot of reject ions. The boy left in Aug 12 for his higher education.

Singapore Expats Forum View topic - Renewal of REP for those PRS who surrender their Son's PR

PRs who do not serve NS may not be at a disadvantage
Letter from Sreedharan Sechachalam
TODAY 07:10 AM Nov 29, 2011

IT WAS reported in "8,800 PRs served NS in last five years" (Nov 23) that failure to serve National Service "would be taken into account" when permanent residents who renounce their PR status subsequently apply to study or work here.

According to the article, about one-third of those who were enlisted in the last five years renounced their PR status and were "warned of the consequences".

As this is a significant proportion, may I ask what other factors are considered when these renouncers apply to study or work here, or if they were already doing so, that would allow them to continue studying or working here?

Based on personal observations as a doctor who studied medicine here, I am not confident that the ground situation reflects the stated policy.

I know of renouncers who were admitted to the National University of Singapore's highly competitive medical school, to which, every year, some straight-As Singaporean students fail to gain admission.

At a higher level, some renouncers have been admitted to speciality training programmes which are sought after by many Singaporeans and non-Singaporeans. Those who complete these programmes will qualify to be specialist doctors in the public or private sector.

 

[reddevil0728]

This is true. It is not a crime. I mean, honestly, what can the sg govt do to these people? They can just run back to their home countries to avoid NS. You think the sg govt will go chase them in their home countries? the sg govt has no legal authority when dealing with foreign citizens in foreign countries.



not entirely true... a quick google search and you'll find stories which show otherwise:



Singapore Expats Forum View topic - Renounced PR, re-enter with EP



Singapore Expats Forum View topic - Renewal of REP for those PRS who surrender their Son's PR

Well as I said "probably" there's always bound to be exception

 

[Kyoji83]

S.u.c.k thumb cause we as male citizen are loser when it come to NS since we are not competent to have the option to give up citizenship at age of 11 or 12 year old.

 

[reddevil0728]

S.u.c.k thumb cause we as male citizen are loser when it come to NS since we are not competent to have the option to give up citizenship at age of 11 or 12 year old.

If you are citizen you must give up by i think 12 (not sure the age) in order not to commit a crime if you don't serve. For PR I don't think there's a age limit.

so you probably be better off not confusing others when you urself is confused.

 

[j_t_fusion]

i believe there is something similar for PRs as well...

if the young PRs don't want to serve NS then they have to give up their PRs status before 16 (i think).

those that became PRs only after 16 also have to serve NS if their age is below the age limit for enlistment.

 

[reddevil0728]

i believe there is something similar for PRs as well...

if the young PRs don't want to serve NS then they have to give up their PRs status before 16 (i think).

those that became PRs only after 16 also have to serve NS if their age is below the age limit for enlistment.

don't think so

Minister: Over the last five years, about 8,800 males who had become permanent residents under the sponsorship of their parents were enlisted for and served National Service (NS). About 6,100 of them have taken up citizenship. In that same period, about 4,200 males who had become permanent residents under the sponsorship of their parents renounced their PR status prior to serving national service. Their failure to serve NS will be taken into account when they subsequently apply to study or work in Singapore. These PRs were warned about the consequences of their action at the point of renunciation.

http://www.mindef.gov.sg/imindef/press_room/official_releases/ps/2011/22nov11_ps.m.html#.UgrhyaYazCR

 

[j_t_fusion]

er... doesn't what you posted basically strengthens what i said?

 

[reddevil0728]

er... doesn't what you posted basically strengthens what i said?

really? u mentioned a cut off age while i posted something do with a "cut off event"

 

[j_t_fusion]

based on the enlistment act, it is mandatory for all able bodied male citizens and PRs to register for NS upon the age of 16.

so if they do not want to serve, they have to renounce their PR status before 16, ie. before the enlistment act applies to them.

i think they can also "safely" renounce their PR status upon receiving the register for NS letter, so long as it is before the NS registration cut off date. but i believe if they did that, they will have to leave singapore immediately.

there is no "event" for renouncing PR status. the enlistment act automatically applies to you when you reach the age, and not when you receive that letter.

pls note that i am not absolutely certain of the exact cut off age/date.

 

[reddevil0728]

based on the enlistment act, it is mandatory for all able bodied male citizens and PRs to register for NS upon the age of 16.

so if they do not want to serve, they have to renounce their PR status before 16, ie. before the enlistment act applies to them.

i think they can also "safely" renounce their PR status upon receiving the register for NS letter, so long as it is before the NS registration cut off date. but i believe if they did that, they will have to leave singapore immediately.

there is no "event" for renouncing PR status. the enlistment act automatically applies to you when you reach the age, and not when you receive that letter.

pls note that i am not absolutely certain of the exact cut off age/date.

I think registering is one thing, serving is another

 

[Kyoji83]

Under subsection (5) of Section 32 of Enlistment Act (CHAPTER 93),

“relevant child” means a person who is a citizen or permanent resident of Singapore and who is not less than 13 years of age but less than 16 years and 6 months of age.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

For PR, there is an age limit.

so you probably be better off not confusing others when you yourself is confused.

If you are citizen you must give up by i think 12 (not sure the age) in order not to commit a crime if you don't serve. For PR I don't think there's a age limit.

so you probably be better off not confusing others when you urself is confused.

 

[reddevil0728]

Under subsection (5) of Section 32 of Enlistment Act (CHAPTER 93),

“relevant child” means a person who is a citizen or permanent resident of Singapore and who is not less than 13 years of age but less than 16 years and 6 months of age.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

For PR, there is an age limit.

so you probably be better off not confusing others when you yourself is confused.

see post #24

 

[Kyoji83]

It is like a 'chicken & egg' comment such as an engineering graduate does not mean he will work in an engineering related job & etc.

What Singapore want or don't want to do & can or cannot do to PR as per post 24 is one thing but to reply your comment that there is an age limit in order not to confuse others in HWZ when you are confused yourself.

see post #24

 

[reddevil0728]

It is like a 'chicken & egg' comment such as an engineering graduate does not mean he will work in an engineering related job & etc.

What Singapore want or don't want to do & can or cannot do to PR as per post 24 is one thing but to reply your comment that there is an age limit in order not to confuse others in HWZ when you are confused yourself.

nvm. for u just look at the first part of my sig.

 

[voiceoflove]

all the PRs who are chao keng-types would have given up their PR to skip NS.
thats why you don't see many chao keng PRs in NS.

this might be the reason..

but i know a few pr quite on de..they wanna convert to become sinkies

at least the ppl chao keng i know are sinkies