Coding for beginners

[-Invictus-]

Morning,

Would like to seek forumers advice on coding languages for beginners.

My intentions are -

1. pickup a basic coding language to write simple program. Do not have any plan of coding as a profession. But a basic platform that will allow me to progress further once i have gained sufficient experience and have the desire to do so.

2. introduce my kids to basic coding, feel that i will be able to advise and guide them better if i have acquire some basic knowledge myself.

3. Do have an intention to set up a web page for advertising and selling some products. What's the pro and con of setting up your own webpage from scratch vis-a-vis using current available apps for website creation?


I did get some recommendations from googling, but i feel that i would be able to get more practical and in depth feedback from experienced forumers. I have read some of the threads here, but decided not to piggyback on them but start a new thread for a more direct feedback.

Any advice are welcome. Thanks in advance.

 

[jackoats.sg]

The top 3 languages in the world, right now are:
1) JavaScript
2) Python
3) Java

Why learn JavaScript?
===
The de facto language for frontend development for web projects. Strong in backend too. Start by creating some web projects that interface with online data.

One problem with getting web pages to work is other than JavaScript, you would also need to know HTML & CSS. If you want to see quick results, you might want to consider learning the other two languages mentioned below here first.

Python
===
Useful for anything to do with heavy / light use of data. School kids probably going to learn this in school. Start by working with your Excel, CSV data. Generate data visualization (charts) that attracts attention.

Java
===
The 'traditional' language to learn in programming. Strong as the language to work on backends. Used in many enterprise shops. Start by learning the language constructs and object-oriented programming.


Start writing / editing your codes in Visual Studio Code, a very versatile IDE for all the three languages mentioned above.

Morning,

Would like to seek forumers advice on coding languages for beginners.

My intentions are -

1. pickup a basic coding language to write simple program. Do not have any plan of coding as a profession. But a basic platform that will allow me to progress further once i have gained sufficient experience and have the desire to do so.

2. introduce my kids to basic coding, feel that i will be able to advise and guide them better if i have acquire some basic knowledge myself.

3. Do have an intention to set up a web page for advertising and selling some products. What's the pro and con of setting up your own webpage from scratch vis-a-vis using current available apps for website creation?


I did get some recommendations from googling, but i feel that i would be able to get more practical and in depth feedback from experienced forumers. I have read some of the threads here, but decided not to piggyback on them but start a new thread for a more direct feedback.

Any advice are welcome. Thanks in advance.

 

[stan216]

https://i.imgur.com/DTRpKVp.png
You might want to ignore the average salary figures however, as (1) they are not in SGD and (2) this infographic is a few years old.

For your question (3): designing your webpage from scratch gives you 100% control over how you want it to be, at the cost of your skill and effort. I have not used any of those website creation apps, but I'm assuming that you will be restricted to as much as whatever the app allows you to do.

As for the starting point for programming, I would recommend Java, because with Java you can create a functional website with Java running the back-end, or develop native Android apps. For web sites, you need to learn an additional HTML, Javascript (do not confuse with Java) and CSS for the front end, and SQL for database.

 

[davidktw]

1. pickup a basic coding language to write simple program. Do not have any plan of coding as a profession. But a basic platform that will allow me to progress further once i have gained sufficient experience and have the desire to do so.

I recommend simply PHP for your needs. It could be Python, but PHP will benefit you more because of (3).

2. introduce my kids to basic coding, feel that i will be able to advise and guide them better if i have acquire some basic knowledge myself.

I recommend Scratch for your kids. There is no need for them to get the hang of popular programming languages that are used in the industry yet. This is something they can go figure out once they are older. After all, not everyone enjoy programming, and if learning the language at a young age (I assume your kids are young), without strong foundation in Mathematics and Sciences, may hinder the whole experience of learning programming.

In fact, I believe an investment on products like Pi-Top (https://www.pi-top.com) will give your kids more knowledge from an educational standpoint. I have pledged the entire Pi-Top[4] kit and have received the Pi-Top[4] Foundation Kit, still waiting for the KVM to arrive. Even with the Pi-Top Foundation kit, your kids will get a more tangible experience observating how the skill set of a software engineer interact with real world objects like LED, motion sensors and so forth. The foundation kit makes it very easy to just plug and play the sensors provided. Take a look and see if it suits you.

3. Do have an intention to set up a web page for advertising and selling some products. What's the pro and con of setting up your own webpage from scratch vis-a-vis using current available apps for website creation?

Reading your description tells me your main intention is to setup a web page for advertising and selling products. Your main object is not to develop a webpage. Since in (1) you are not going to invest professionally into a career, then programming languages like Java and .NET are not as useful for you compared to PHP.

Among various content management systems, Joomla, Wordpress and Drupal will seems very fitting for your needs. These CMS works on PHP, not even Python. If you are just trying to get something up quick and easy, I will even recommend that you just go with Wix or Squarespace. Don't waste your time on development. By the time you have something robust, secure and fast, you would have build up a software engineering skill set, not a web system.

Python may be the "NEW AGAIN" old kid around the block, PHP is not a sloppily language either. You will find a lot of affordable web hosting providers supporting PHP instead of Python, Java or .NET. Besides the real deal in learning software engineering has little to do with programming languages, but general computer science disciplines. You can't write efficient codes just because you study a programming language.

Javascript is unfortunately the current de-facto in browser side technologies. VBScript is gone-in-the-wind. Hence I would say across all your 3 objectives you will need to touch on the following

1) Scratch (for kids)
2) PHP and Javascript for your web endeavour

 

[-Invictus-]

The top 3 languages in the world, right now are:
1) JavaScript
2) Python
3) Java

Why learn JavaScript?
===
The de facto language for frontend development for web projects. Strong in backend too. Start by creating some web projects that interface with online data.

One problem with getting web pages to work is other than JavaScript, you would also need to know HTML & CSS. If you want to see quick results, you might want to consider learning the other two languages mentioned below here first.

Python
===
Useful for anything to do with heavy / light use of data. School kids probably going to learn this in school. Start by working with your Excel, CSV data. Generate data visualization (charts) that attracts attention.

Java
===
The 'traditional' language to learn in programming. Strong as the language to work on backends. Used in many enterprise shops. Start by learning the language constructs and object-oriented programming.


Start writing / editing your codes in Visual Studio Code, a very versatile IDE for all the three languages mentioned above.

Thanks. Took a look at Visual Studio Code. Downloaded it since it's free and will explore it.

You might want to ignore the average salary figures however, as (1) they are not in SGD and (2) this infographic is a few years old.

For your question (3): designing your webpage from scratch gives you 100% control over how you want it to be, at the cost of your skill and effort. I have not used any of those website creation apps, but I'm assuming that you will be restricted to as much as whatever the app allows you to do.

As for the starting point for programming, I would recommend Java, because with Java you can create a functional website with Java running the back-end, or develop native Android apps. For web sites, you need to learn an additional HTML, Javascript (do not confuse with Java) and CSS for the front end, and SQL for database.

Thanks. That's a creative and visually enticing way of ranking the various languages. You mentioned Java and native Android apps, how about IOS Apps?

I recommend simply PHP for your needs. It could be Python, but PHP will benefit you more because of (3).



I recommend Scratch for your kids. There is no need for them to get the hang of popular programming languages that are used in the industry yet. This is something they can go figure out once they are older. After all, not everyone enjoy programming, and if learning the language at a young age (I assume your kids are young), without strong foundation in Mathematics and Sciences, may hinder the whole experience of learning programming.

In fact, I believe an investment on products like Pi-Top will give your kids more knowledge from an educational standpoint. I have pledged the entire Pi-Top[4] kit and have received the Pi-Top[4] Foundation Kit, still waiting for the KVM to arrive. Even with the Pi-Top Foundation kit, your kids will get a more tangible experience observating how the skill set of a software engineer interact with real world objects like LED, motion sensors and so forth. The foundation kit makes it very easy to just plug and play the sensors provided. Take a look and see if it suits you.



Reading your description tells me your main intention is to setup a web page for advertising and selling products. Your main object is not to develop a webpage. Since in (1) you are not going to invest professionally into a career, then programming languages like Java and .NET are not as useful for you compared to PHP.

Among various content management systems, Joomla, Wordpress and Drupal will seems very fitting for your needs. These CMS works on PHP, not even Python. If you are just trying to get something up quick and easy, I will even recommend that you just go with Wix or Squarespace. Don't waste your time on development. By the time you have something robust, secure and fast, you would have build up a software engineering skill set, not a web system.

Python may be the "NEW AGAIN" old kid around the block, PHP is not a sloppily language either. You will find a lot of affordable web hosting providers supporting PHP instead of Python, Java or .NET. Besides the real deal in learning software engineering has little to do with programming languages, but general computer science disciplines. You can't write efficient codes just because you study a programming language.

Javascript is unfortunately the current de-facto in browser side technologies. VBScript is gone-in-the-wind. Hence I would say across all your 3 objectives you will need to touch on the following

1) Scratch (for kids)
2) PHP and Javascript for your web endeavour

Thanks. PHP seems like a better fit based on my mentioned intentions. However, i do have a bit of spare time now since wfh was implemented. I should have clarified my intention better.

Latin being one of the oldest language, has evolved and help developed a number of european languages. Is there a similar basic programming language, once acquired, will help one to learn other programming languages easier or faster? My analogy might not be applicable though.

Will look at Scratch for my kids.

 

[-Invictus-]

I do have a couple more queries. Java and Javascript come up quite often as recommended programming languages. Are there programming languages that are quite similar or have overlapping functionality that enable one to learn both at the same time?

For the following languages -

Java
Javascript
Python
PHP

what are the average timeframe for an average joe to learn and use them appropriately?

Thanks.

 

[davidktw]

Latin being one of the oldest language, has evolved and help developed a number of european languages. Is there a similar basic programming language, once acquired, will help one to learn other programming languages easier or faster? My analogy might not be applicable though.

Will look at Scratch for my kids.

How many people you seen around you knows Latin and speak and write in one? How would knowing Latin understand Mandarin?

Likewise no such programming language that covers all. If there is such, I would deem C language. However you wouldn’t get too far with it without a good computing foundation.

The foundation to computing is not programming languages. It is Computer Science. If you need to access a relational database, a very old school and still extremely relevant storage technique, you need SQL too. The SQL is a query language, but again the essence understanding it has nothing to do with the query language, but the database theory.

I hope you get the gist of what I am conveying.

 

[davidktw]

I do have a couple more queries. Java and Javascript come up quite often as recommended programming languages. Are there programming languages that are quite similar or have overlapping functionality that enable one to learn both at the same time?

For the following languages -

Java
Javascript
Python
PHP

what are the average timeframe for an average joe to learn and use them appropriately?

Thanks.

No offence but if you are seeking an easy way out, you shouldn’t touch on computing. It is a subject that need passion and diligence. Some might tell you otherwise, I will tell you with more than a decade of experience in this industry, what was painted by the media is a rather shallow perspective.

Sure you can get useful reading a Programming in 24hrs book, but it will be a very shallow and short journey unless you are willing to spend more than months to years of your time honing the craft.

 

[-Invictus-]

How many people you seen around you knows Latin and speak and write in one? How would knowing Latin understand Mandarin?

Likewise no such programming language that covers all. If there is such, I would deem C language. However you wouldn’t get too far with it without a good computing foundation.

The foundation to computing is not programming languages. It is Computer Science. If you need to access a relational database, a very old school and still extremely relevant storage technique, you need SQL too. The SQL is a query language, but again the essence understanding it has nothing to do with the query language, but the database theory.

I hope you get the gist of what I am conveying.

No worries, I get the gist. I am past the point of switching career personally. I am gathering more information to be able to offer some useful advice to my own kids eventually, yes, you are right, they are rather young still, but in my volunteering work, i do interact with teens and youth.

Latin and chinese are way off

 

[-Invictus-]

No offence but if you are seeking an easy way out, you shouldn’t touch on computing. It is a subject that need passion and diligence. Some might tell you otherwise, I will tell you with more than a decade of experience in this industry, what was painted by the media is a rather shallow perspective.

Sure you can get useful reading a Programming in 24hrs book, but it will be a very shallow and short journey unless you are willing to spend more than months to years of your time honing the craft.

I am not seeking an easy way out. Like i mentioned in my earlier post, i am seeking more information to hopefully to be able to offer useful advice and to be able to do programming at a basic level as a start. I needed to know the timeframe as my wife has always wanted to start a small business and i am just working out various options (to self help and self contruct, or to engage professional services) and timeline with her

 

[davidktw]

No worries, I get the gist. I am past the point of switching career personally. I am gathering more information to be able to offer some useful advice to my own kids eventually, yes, you are right, they are rather young still, but in my volunteering work, i do interact with teens and youth.

Latin and chinese are way off

If you are trying to teach young minds to software engineering, which in fact, I will generalise as Engineering. The most important lesson to learn is Creativity. Once they appreciate the creation process, what comes next is natural. It could be as low level as tinkering with electricity, with electronics, with mechanical stuffs, and it could be also software. IMHO software engineering is really a very narrow perspective and lesson you want to teach ur kids, that is why I suggested you to get the Pi-Top[4] foundation kit to show your kids a much larger area of engineering. It covers electricity, electronics, mechanical engineering, and software. Start them on the basics of logics, link them back to Mathematics and Sciences, so that they will be more interested in Mathematics and Sciences and understand the value of them and how they link with technologies. I believe such exposure will show your kids a much wider engineering space than merely which programming languages to pursue. I sincerely urge you to really take a close look at it.

 

[davidktw]

I am not seeking an easy way out. Like i mentioned in my earlier post, i am seeking more information to hopefully to be able to offer useful advice and to be able to do programming at a basic level as a start. I needed to know the timeframe as my wife has always wanted to start a small business and i am just working out various options and timeline with her

If it is a business that matter, just go with Wix.com or Squarespace or Shopify, or settle with Wordpress or Joomla with the necessary plugins to get started on the business. Don’t start with software engineering, it is not the right path.

 

[-Invictus-]

If you are trying to teach young minds to software engineering, which in fact, I will generalise as Engineering. The most important lesson to learn is Creativity. Once they appreciate the creation process, what comes next is natural. It could be as low level as tinkering with electricity, with electronics, with mechanical stuffs, and it could be also software. IMHO software engineering is really a very narrow perspective and lesson you want to teach ur kids, that is why I suggested you to get the Pi-Top[4] foundation kit to show your kids a much larger area of engineering. It covers electricity, electronics, mechanical engineering, and software. Start them on the basics of logics, link them back to Mathematics and Sciences, so that they will be more interested in Mathematics and Sciences and understand the value of them and how they link with technologies. I believe such exposure will show your kids a much wider engineering space than merely which programming languages to pursue. I sincerely urge you to really take a close look at it.

I will look at the Pi-Top closely. Thanks for the invaluable advice.

 

[-Invictus-]

If it is a business that matter, just go with Wix.com or Squarespace or Shopify, or settle with Wordpress or Joomla with the necessary plugins to get started on the business. Don’t start with software engineering, it is not the right path.

Will evaluate them, thanks.

 

[-Invictus-]

Would like to hear from more forumers as well.

Don't let David hogs the limelight

Thanks.

 

[cwchong]

Alot of 3p services offer wysiwyg ways of building sites, so unless your aim is specifically building a software ur self, i will not worry much about learning languages

Instead learn paradigms and designs such as oop, orm;
Basically how s/w are designed in general and why that way
This will make it easier for u to see s/w the way developers see

 

[christine186]

Morning,

Would like to seek forumers advice on coding languages for beginners.

My intentions are -

1. pickup a basic coding language to write simple program. Do not have any plan of coding as a profession. But a basic platform that will allow me to progress further once i have gained sufficient experience and have the desire to do so.

2. introduce my kids to basic coding, feel that i will be able to advise and guide them better if i have acquire some basic knowledge myself.

3. Do have an intention to set up a web page for advertising and selling some products. What's the pro and con of setting up your own webpage from scratch vis-a-vis using current available apps for website creation?


I did get some recommendations from googling, but i feel that i would be able to get more practical and in depth feedback from experienced forumers. I have read some of the threads here, but decided not to piggyback on them but start a new thread for a more direct feedback.

Any advice are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Programming (1st query) and web programming (3rd query) are two different areas. Eventually you are dealing with fundamentals of programming, building an interface, and understanding the logics.

The basic to your first query can be Java, which should also help point to building mobile applications on Android. Most programming languages follow similar logic. So once you learn one language, the second one will be easier to pick up.

The basic to your third query can be HTML and CSS, then abit on Javascript. Once you are familiar with static web development, you can proceed to PHP and SQL which will help to build a dynamic website and maintain database. The learning curve is not easy, however there are web building platforms as other mentioned, which will help you to generate the interface and give you opportunity to dissect the codes they generated and learn from there.

As others have mentioned, there is no easy way out as the programming alone is a large field on its own which requires understanding on logics and mathematics. Your best bet is to start with HTML and web building platforms that help you to get started on the surface of programming.

 

[jackoats.sg]

Languages sort of learn from each other and improvise.

Java learns from JavaScript and becoming more functional like. JavaScript learns from Java and has classes.

For an average person like myself, It takes months if not years to be able to code on my own (little copy and paste) to build a functional program (doing it part-time).

What is important in your learning journey is that you must have a target to achieve, such as "I want to build a program that can do ..."

If you have that in mind, it will give you the motivation to soldier on despite difficulties. Set small-steps targets along the way to achieving your final goal.


BTW, I heard Visual Studio Code is created using React-Electron, both of them JavaScript frameworks.

I do have a couple more queries. Java and Javascript come up quite often as recommended programming languages. Are there programming languages that are quite similar or have overlapping functionality that enable one to learn both at the same time?

For the following languages -

Java
Javascript
Python
PHP

what are the average timeframe for an average joe to learn and use them appropriately?

Thanks.

 

[keenklee]

You may want to get an Arduino and try Arduino programming.

 

[-Invictus-]

Thanks for the response everyone, appreciate them. I do not doubt for a moment the monumental tasks and efforts needed to acquire a new knowledge or skill such as coding. Had many friends who took that path years ago but eventually left for other discipline or profession.

My main goals are two fold, spend some time to familiarise myself and to gain some basic knowledge of coding since i have some spare time. i believe any time or effort spent in these endeavours will not be wasted. The demand and application of this field will only increase.

Secondly, gathering and exploring more options for my wife little venture. Based on the information received from the responses so far, it will keep me busy for a while and definitely help me save some time exploring on my own.

Keep them coming and thanks once again.