comparison between simba and whizcomm boradband

[xiaofan]

WC 2.5Gbps terms and conditions seem to say the promotion is only till 3 March 2024. The contract is 12 months (same as SIMBA 2.5Gbps plan). Let's see whether they keep the same pricing later at S$21.80 per month (same as SIMBA 2.5Gbps plan).
https://whizcomms.com.sg/fibreplus-2-5gbps/
https://whizcomms.com.sg/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/Whiz-2.5Gbps-Sale-TC-27-Feb24.pdf

 

[Nwcguy]

The downside of CGNAT is not being able to access devices remotely. Like your home CCTV? Sry noob here.

 

[xiaofan]

The downside of CGNAT is not being able to access devices remotely. Like your home CCTV? Sry noob here.

Older generations of CCTV which need a public IPv4 address will not work. Newer ones should work. You have to check with your CCTV provider.

Typical consumer grade Home Security Wi-Fi Cameras should work.

 

[GlassDoor]

just integrated simba 2.5G into my network

my use case is to offload media streaming/ general browsing / redundancy

users didn't detect any differences. media streaming also works well.
i used to have some media streaming challenges from china source especially at night. simba seems better.

for work stuff and other more critical stuff.. traffic is still routed through VQ with static ip

will most likely switch out of VQ in a few months once contract ends to either
1) MR 10G with static ip
2) cheapest 1G with static ip

network is ready for 10G after recent upgrade.

 

[xiaofan]

just integrated simba 2.5G into my network

my use case is to offload media streaming/ general browsing / redundancy

users didn't detect any differences. media streaming also works well.
i used to have some media streaming challenges from china source especially at night. simba seems better.

for work stuff and other more critical stuff.. traffic is still routed through VQ with static ip

will most likely switch out of VQ in a few months once contract ends to either
1) MR 10G with static ip
2) cheapest 1G with static ip

network is ready for 10G after recent upgrade.

Nice.

For people who want to have a secondary ISP for ISP redudancy, I think both SIMBA and WC 2.5Gbps plan can be a good choice since the price is lower than other ISPs.

Just wondering why you need Static IPv4? WIll you be okay with dynamic public IPv4?

Starhub/Singtel/Whizcomms/M1 provide dynamic IPv4 and only M1 has the static IPv4 add-on. MR and VQ use CGNAT and then they provide Static IPv4 add-on.

 

[GlassDoor]

Nice.

For people who want to have a secondary ISP for ISP redudancy, I think both SIMBA and WC 2.5Gbps plan can be a good choice since the price is lower than other ISPs.

Just wondering why you need Static IPv4? WIll you be okay with dynamic public IPv4?

Starhub/Singtel/Whizcomms/M1 provide dynamic IPv4 and only M1 has the static IPv4 add-on. MR and VQ use CGNAT and then they provide Static IPv4 add-on.

static for various reasons.. hosts locally, ipsec tunnels, wg tunnels, work related stuff

could probably make things work by arm twisting and ddns a lot of stuff. but life is short why make it more difficult?
static ip makes life simple from the configuration stand point.

btw,
got a bunch of 2.5G/10G combo switches during the upgrade exercise. find the cheapest on TB
for the cheapos/value for money bros here.. i highly recommend these realtek switches, no heat issues (unless u start plugging 10G copper sfp+ modules then all bets are off)
RTL8372 - 4 X 2.5Gbe, 2 X SFP+ <== about S$40 bucks
RTL8373 + RTL8224 - 8 X 2.5Gbe, 1 X SFP+ <== about S$55 bucks
simple web managed with vlan tagging, link aggregation and the other usual stuff

 

[klarkooi]

Do i need a dual WAN router to take advantage of the limitation of WC since a single LAN from their modem can only deliver max 1Gbps? Why they don't just provide a modem with a single 2.5Gbps port?

 

[klarkooi]

I think able to isolate outside world is a good security feature . Internet world is full of sharks and predators.

 

[sglandscape]

static for various reasons.. hosts locally, ipsec tunnels, wg tunnels, work related stuff

could probably make things work by arm twisting and ddns a lot of stuff. but life is short why make it more difficult?
static ip makes life simple from the configuration stand point.

btw,
got a bunch of 2.5G/10G combo switches during the upgrade exercise. find the cheapest on TB
for the cheapos/value for money bros here.. i highly recommend these realtek switches, no heat issues (unless u start plugging 10G copper sfp+ modules then all bets are off)
RTL8372 - 4 X 2.5Gbe, 2 X SFP+ <== about S$40 bucks
RTL8373 + RTL8224 - 8 X 2.5Gbe, 1 X SFP+ <== about S$55 bucks
simple web managed with vlan tagging, link aggregation and the other usual stuff

add a usb fan if you tend to plug in 10G copper transceiver. nice set up!

 

[GlassDoor]

add a usb fan if you tend to plug in 10G copper transceiver. nice set up!

migrated all those with need for speed/bandwidth to SFP+ using DAC..
so all the 10G copper sfp+ unpluigged sitting idle collecting dust. come to think of it.. think still got two ubiquiti ones brand new.. never opened before... people collect stamps. i collect sfp+ modules
got mikrotik and ubiquiti 10G copper sfp+ both work well BUT the ubiquiti ones are way way cooler than mikrotik ones.

 

[xiaofan]

SIMBA has its major outrage recently.
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/threads/simba-fibre-broadband.6883466/

 

[given]

Updated on 30-March-2024.

Quick comparison -- the recommendation is just my personal opinion. I myself consider Whizcomms 2.5Gbps plan using GPON ONR to be worse than existing Whizcomms 1Gbps plan with ONT (and worse than Starhub/M1 1Gbps plan, but that is just my personal opionion.

SIMBA 2.5Gbps plan, S$21.80 per month (with GST)
Pros:
1) "True" 2.5Gbps plan with GPON ONT, you can use your own router as the main router. It is possible to use a router with 2.5G WAN and 2.5G LAN to get single connection up to 2.5Gbps download (1.25Gbps upload).
2) You can use your own router with full features
3) You can use more adavnced routers with dual 2.5G ports to have wired 2.5G connection to LAN devices. Optional 2.5G switches can be added.

Cons
1) Using CGNAT as of now, no public IPv4 address. No static IPv4 add-on as of now.
2) No IPv6 support
3) No digital voice add-on as of now
4) Not yet fully deployed to all areas yet, not proven in terms of stability
Update on 30-March-2024 -- SIMBA just had a major outrage for some users.
5) SIMBA may have higher upfront cost than Whizcomms (eg: S$50 for the ONT).

Why CGNAT is bad without Static IPv4 add-on or IPv6 support?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrier-grade_NAT
https://dannyda.com/2023/03/08/what...arge-scale-nat-why-it-can-be-bad-problematic/

Whizcomms 2.5Gbps plan, S$21.80 per month (with GST)
Pros:
1) With public IPv4 address
2) The ONR itself is a wired router so you may save one router in the DB Box
3) With Digital Voice add-on
4) Using Singtel network with proven stability
5) Cheaper wireless APs or mesh solutions can be used since there is no need to have 2.5G WAN port.

Cons
1) "Fake" aggregated 2.5Gbps plan with GPON ONR (each ONR LAN port is up to 1Gbps download/upload speed, total speed across all connections: up to 2.5Gbps downalod and 1.25Gbps upload.
2) No IPv6 support (to be confirmed)
3) You have to use your own router in bridged mode (AP mode) to avoid Double NAT. Or you have to live with some limitations of Double NAT if you want to use your own router in router mode.
4) The GPON ONR may have limited features compared to a typical consumer router (let alone better grade routers).

More about ONT vs ONR and why ONR is avoided by power users.
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/...cs-of-home-networking.6653421/#post-138363236

Personal Recommendations: just my personal opinion
Avoid both plans as of now especially for power users.

For an average user who want to have a low Fibre internet plan and do not mind the limitations of the ONR, WC 2.5Gbps may be the way to go. Stability is the most important factor for average users.

The WC ONR limitation may not mean much to an average user. WC 2.5Gbps may be more stable choice between the two as it is riding on Singtel network and it is available now to all users whereas SIMBA is still rolling out the service.

Singtel 2.5Gbps plan
This is quite similar to WC 2.5Gbps plan, only with some differences. NOT RECOMMENDED.

1) Singtel 2.5Gbps plan support SingTel TV box.
2) SingTel 2.5Gbps plan come with a lousy pair of mesh solution and charge for much higher monthly fee.
3) You probably get a bit better support from SingTel (like changing the ONR or the mesh nodes).

Singtel 2Gbps plan
Same as Singtel 2.5Gbps plan except the total bandwidth is 2Gbps. NOT RECOMMENDED.

totally agree with stability being the most important factor. blame no1 but myself for being cheapo (and of course blaming SIMBA for zero support) and went for SIMBA. now paying the price of no internet service for whole family and tapping mobile data from my GIGA plan. i am currently more p1ssed off at their zero customer service support provided rather than the outage.

94 hours now without usable internet service, no respond from SIMBA, not a slightest hint from them on how they are going to resolve.

so yup, AVOID SIMBA 2.5 GBPS home broadband at all cost.

 

[sglandscape]

totally agree with stability being the most important factor. blame no1 but myself for being cheapo (and of course blaming SIMBA for zero support) and went for SIMBA. now paying the price of no internet service for whole family and tapping mobile data from my GIGA plan. i am currently more p1ssed off at their zero customer service support provided rather than the outage.

94 hours now without usable internet service, no respond from SIMBA, not a slightest hint from them on how they are going to resolve.

so yup, AVOID SIMBA 2.5 GBPS home broadband at all cost.

there is no contract right? Personally would only use simba as a backup connection for load balancing purposes given it uses CGNAT. Not quite useful for anything except for client devices.

 

[elvintay07]

Wow! Just like trump vs Biden

 

[xiaofan]

there is no contract right? Personally would only use simba as a backup connection for load balancing purposes given it uses CGNAT. Not quite useful for anything except for client devices.

12 months contract.

 

[xiaofan]

Interestingly Viewquest also changes its 2Gbps plan to 2.5Gbps plan (aggregated 2.5Gbps). Still using ONR. Still using CGNAT.

Basically it is more or less free for VQ to upgrade 2Gbps plan to 2.5Gbps plan as they are still using the same GPON ONR and same infrastructure.

It is said that VQ ONR has a bit better features than Singtel/WC ONRs. I am not so sure how true is that. At least it is cheaper than Singtel 2.5Gbps.

https://viewqwest.com/sg/residential/broadband/
24 months contract, S$41.98 / month for first 10 months, U.P. $52.98/mth after that.

Limited time offer:

• Waived Admin Fee (worth $54.50)
• Waived NLT Activation Fee (worth $57.77)

 

[Tantecky]

Hi, quite lost at the whole thread.

As a recreational user, surfing the web, light work purposes and streaming. Both plans will work fine?

If I were to go for WC just for the lower upfront cost, can I still link the wiremesh i have at home?

 

[xiaofan]

Hi, quite lost at the whole thread.

As a recreational user, surfing the web, light work purposes and streaming. Both plans will work fine?

If I were to go for WC just for the lower upfront cost, can I still link the wiremesh i have at home?

What is the mesh solution used? Are you using Ethernet Backhaul or Wireless backhaul?

WC is using ONR, so the mesh solution must support mesh in AP mode. Notable exception is Google. Google's mesh solution does not support mesh in AP mode.

What is your current ISP?

As of now, SIMBA has not proved itself to be troublefree. Therefore WC is more recommended for average users who may not worry about the limitations of the ONR. But you may still need to understand the limitation of ONR.
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/...cs-of-home-networking.6653421/#post-138363236

 

[titiju]

My Starhub contract is up for renewal soon. Currently on 1Gbps plan. I don't intend to renew given the renewal has no discount and I will be paying close to 40 or more per month. Given Simba's notorious reputation, my best cheapo choice would be WC? I guess I can live with ONR. I do use VPN from individual devices some time. Not sure this ONR will limit. I do not use torrents. Any thoughts folks?

 

[OrbB]

My Starhub contract is up for renewal soon. Currently on 1Gbps plan. I don't intend to renew given the renewal has no discount and I will be paying close to 40 or more per month. Given Simba's notorious reputation, my best cheapo choice would be WC? I guess I can live with ONR. I do use VPN from individual devices some time. Not sure this ONR will limit. I do not use torrents. Any thoughts folks?

I'm in the exact same situation. What router will you intend to use for WC to make use of 2.5Gbps? Or are you just intending to make do with 1Gbps?