comparison between simba and whizcomm boradband

[redname]

Hi, anyone got reviews of these 2 companies broadband?

i'm currently under whizcomm and am 1 of those that got affected with the security leak but not too sure if wanna switch to simba if the quality isnt that good

 

[adrianm72]

In all fairness, nearly every company faces the impact of security breaches. See below.

Interestingly, my findings on M1 are rather limited, suggesting that M1 might be very secure or maybe not a significant target at the moment. From an economic standpoint, hackers typically target larger companies for greater returns.

I will usually go for cheapest plan as I am a lite user. And get a shorter contract because a broadband war is inevitable in the near future.


hxxps://www.singtel.com/about-us/media-centre/news-releases/singtel-addresses-data-breach-moves-to-support-affected-stakeholders

hxxps://www.straitstimes.com/tech/more-than-57000-starhub-customers-personal-data-leaked

 

[xiaofan]

Note added on 16-Nov-2024

1) No point to consider SIMBA/WC 10Gbps plan with the new M1 6Gbps pricing (if it is available in your area) and Starhub S$29.55 special offer for 5Gbps.

2) WC 2.5Gbps plan may still be worth the money as being the lowest cost plan if you are existing users who are looking for recontract. For new users, because of the NLT charge and installation charges, it may be better to go with Starhub 5Gbps special offer at S$29.55 per month.

3) M1 6Gbps plan with two ZenWiFi BT10 --> S$59.90 per month, selling both units at about S$800 (S$400 each unit), effective pricing is S$26.57 per month without a router. Better value than SIMBA/WC 10Gbps plan.

Note added-on 1-Oct-2024.
1. SIMBA has changed the monthly subscription price of 2.5Gbps to be the same as newly launched 10Gbps plan, at S$29.99 per 30days (GST included). The user is able to upgrade to 10Gbps plan.
2. SIMBA 10Gbps is now available across the island.
3. Whizcomms also launched 10Gbps plan at S$29.99 per month, using ZTE F8648P wired XGS-PON ONR.

Please go to Page 6 and check out the following post for comparison among SIMBA 10Gbps, WC 10Gbps and Starhub special offer for 5Gbps (using Nokia XS-2426X-A ONR with AX6000 wireless).
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/...zcomm-boradband.6984714/page-6#post-153920132

Quick comparison -- the recommendation is just my personal opinion.

1. SIMBA 2.5Gbps plan/10Gbps plan, S$29.99 per month (with GST): new sign-up will only have 10Gbps plan option and it is anyway better than the older 2.5Gbps plan

Pros:
1) SIMBA 2.5Gbps plan is "True" 2.5Gbps plan with GPON ONT, you can use your own router as the main router. It is possible to use a router with 2.5G WAN and 2.5G LAN to get single connection up to 2.5Gbps download (1.25Gbps upload).
2) You can use your own router with full features
3) You can use more adavnced routers with dual 2.5G ports to have wired 2.5G connection to LAN devices. Optional 2.5G switches can be added.
4) SIMBA 10Gbps plan is the lowest cost 10Gbps plan out there at S$29.99 per 30 days; along with WC 10Gbps plan at S$29.99 per month (but with installation charge). But you may need to invest quite a bit of money to achieve above 2.5Gbps.

Cons
1) Using CGNAT as of now, no public IPv4 address. No static IPv4 add-on as of now.
2) No IPv6 support
3) No digital voice add-on as of now
4) Not yet fully deployed to all areas yet
5) not proven in terms of stability
Update on 30-March-2024 -- SIMBA just had a major outrage for some users.
6) SIMBA may have higher upfront cost than Whizcomms (eg: S$50 for the ONT).
7) Not proven in terms of routing (may not be good for gaming)
8) For SIMBA 10Gbps plan, you may need to invest quite a bit of money to be able to utilize above 2.5Gbps.

Why CGNAT is bad without Static IPv4 add-on or IPv6 support?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrier-grade_NAT
https://dannyda.com/2023/03/08/what...arge-scale-nat-why-it-can-be-bad-problematic/

2. Whizcomms 2.5Gbps plan, S$24 per month (with GST, 24 month contract) or S$26 per month (12 months contract)
Pros:
1) With public IPv4 address
2) The ONR itself is a wired router so you may save one router in the DB Box
3) With Digital Voice add-on
4) Using Singtel network with proven stability
5) Cheaper wireless APs or mesh solutions can be used since there is no need to have 2.5G WAN port.
6) Power users may be able to take a bit of risk and bridge the ONR.
7) Power users may be able to use a router with Dual WAN Load Balancing to achieve >1Gbps wired/wireless speed.

Cons
1) "Fake" aggregated 2.5Gbps plan with GPON ONR (each ONR LAN port is up to 1Gbps download/upload speed, total speed across all connections: up to 2.5Gbps downalod and 1.25Gbps upload.
2) No IPv6 support (to be confirmed)
3) You have to use your own router in bridged mode (AP mode) to avoid Double NAT. Or you have to live with some limitations of Double NAT if you want to use your own router in router mode.
4) The GPON ONR may have limited features compared to a typical consumer router (let alone better grade routers).
5) WC 2.5Gbps plan will share some of the "features" of Singtel, like bad routing to some locations like US and Europe (maybe bad for gaming) and throttle of torrent traffic (work-around available).

3. More about ONT vs ONR and why ONR is avoided by power users.
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/...cs-of-home-networking.6653421/#post-138363236

4. Personal Recommendations: just my personal opinion

My recommendation for power users is to avoid both SIMBA and Whizcomms as of now.

For an average user who want to have a low cost Fibre internet plan and do not mind the limitations of WC (including ONR and bad routing to certain internation locations like US/EU), WC 2.5Gbps may be the way to go. Stability is the most important factor for average users. WC 10Gbps plan can be considered as well.

For power users who want to take a bit of risk and bridge the WC GPON ONR for 2.5Gbps plan, it is an okay option (but please take note of the other weak points like bad international routing to some locations). Take note the WC 10Gbps ZTE F8648P ONR can not be bridged as of now.

You can also consider SIMBA 10Gbps as long as you understand the risks of CGNAT, occassional downtime and the potential slow speed issues when connecting to other ISPs. My personal recommendation is to avoid SIMBA as of now.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
5. Singtel 2.5Gbps plan
This is quite similar to WC 2.5Gbps plan, only with some differences. NOT RECOMMENDED.
But if you are already using unbirdged ONR with Singtel 1Gbps plan, then no problem to upgrade.

1) Singtel 2.5Gbps plan support SingTel TV box.
2) SingTel 2.5Gbps plan come with a lousy pair of mesh solution and charge for much higher monthly fee.
3) You probably get a bit better support from SingTel (like changing the ONR or the mesh nodes).

6. Singtel 2Gbps plan
Same as Singtel 2.5Gbps plan except the total bandwidth is 2Gbps. NOT RECOMMENDED.
But if you are already using unbirdged ONR with Singtel 1Gbps plan, then no problem to upgrade.

7. Notes about Singtel and WC as an ISP in general
1) International routing issue to quite some locations. On the other hand, it may be the better ones among local ISPs for the connection to China. So it depends on your use case.

Reference: "Other ISPs peer openly at SGIX whereas SingTel will only selectively peer with others".
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/...ame-server-is-st-routing-to-the-moon.6942466/
Reference: Singtel is the better ISP if you use Taobao heavily
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/threads/best-isp-for-taobao.6933181/

2) SingTel (same for WC) is known to throttle certain traiffic like Torrent. You can use client like qBitTorrent and force encryption to get better download speed though.

3) Reference for international routing comparison.
Test results in Feb 2024.
Singtel is often bad when it comes to US and Europe (eg: worse than M1). Singtel is not bad for China (eg: better than M1).
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/threads/fastest-isp.6996674/page-3#post-151182381

 

[Purplestars]

Quick comparison -- the recommendation is just my personal opinion. I myself consider Whizcomms 2.5Gbps plan using GPON ONR to be worse than existing Whizcomms 1Gbps plan with ONT (and worse than Starhub/M1 1Gbps plan, but that is just my personal opionion.

SIMBA 2.5Gbps plan
Pros:
1) "True" 2.5Gbps plan with GPON ONT, you can use your own router as the main router. It is possible to use a router with 2.5G WAN and 2.5G LAN to get single connection up to 2.5Gbps download (1.25Gbps upload).
2) You can use your own router with full features

Cons
1) Using CGNAT as of now, no public IPv4 address.
2) No IPv6 support (to be confirmed)
3) No digital voice add-on as of now
4) Not yet deployed to many areas yet, not proven in terms of stability
5) No static IPv4 add-on as of now

Whizcomms 2.5Gbps plan
Pros:
1) With public IPv4 address
2) The ONR itself is a wired router so you may save one router in the DB Box
3) With Digital Voice add-on
4) Using Singtel network with proven stability

Cons
1) "Fake" aggregated 2.5Gbps plan with GPON ONR (each ONR LAN port is up to 1Gbps download/upload speed, total speed across all connections: up to 2.5Gbps downalod and 1.25Gbps upload. It is impossible to bridged the ONR
2) No IPv6 support (to be confirmed)
3) You have to use your own router in bridged mode (AP mode) to avoid Double NAT. Or you have to live with some limitations of Double NAT if you want to use your own router in router mode
4) The GPON ONR may have limited features compared to a typical consumer router (let alone better grade routers).

Personal Recommendations: just my personal opioion
Avoid both plans as of now.
But I were asked to choose between them no matter what, I would probably go with SIMBA.

why is CGNAT so bad?

 

[Mach3.2]

why is CGNAT so bad?

- Cannot host anything on your home connection.
- Cannot port forward your console/PC for gaming/bittorrent
- You might get caught in an IP ban for a forum/game if someone else on the same IP range as you get banned.

I'm sure there's more reasons why CGNAT is bad, but that's all I can think of for now. If you just do normal web browsing/media consumption, CGNAT isn't really that big of a deal.

 

[Purplestars]

Lol if cannot climb properly need so fast internet for what? Even streaming don't need so much speed.

 

[Mach3.2]

so you can feel song because the speedometer needle in your speedtest app can hit 1.8Gbps

 

[xiaofan]

Lol if cannot climb properly need so fast internet for what? Even streaming don't need so much speed.

In the case of SIMBA and Whizcomms 2.5Gbps plan, the keyword is CHEAP, cheaper than other ISP's 1Gbps plan.

There are some limitations, on the other hand, many users will probably be okay with the limitations (eg: CGNAT from SIMBA).

 

[redname]

Lol if cannot climb properly need so fast internet for what? Even streaming don't need so much speed.

No need to climb to enjoy cheap plans

It's $21

 

[Pauleon]

Quick comparison -- the recommendation is just my personal opinion. I myself consider Whizcomms 2.5Gbps plan using GPON ONR to be worse than existing Whizcomms 1Gbps plan with ONT (and worse than Starhub/M1 1Gbps plan, but that is just my personal opionion.

SIMBA 2.5Gbps plan
Pros:
1) "True" 2.5Gbps plan with GPON ONT, you can use your own router as the main router. It is possible to use a router with 2.5G WAN and 2.5G LAN to get single connection up to 2.5Gbps download (1.25Gbps upload).
2) You can use your own router with full features
3) You can use more adavnced routers with dual 2.5G ports to have wired 2.5G connection to LAN devices. Optional 2.5G switches can be added.

Cons
1) Using CGNAT as of now, no public IPv4 address.
2) No IPv6 support (to be confirmed)
3) No digital voice add-on as of now
4) Not yet deployed to many areas yet, not proven in terms of stability
5) No static IPv4 add-on as of now

Whizcomms 2.5Gbps plan
Pros:
1) With public IPv4 address
2) The ONR itself is a wired router so you may save one router in the DB Box
3) With Digital Voice add-on
4) Using Singtel network with proven stability
5) Cheaper wireless APs or mesh solutions can be used since there is no need to have 2.5G WAN port.

Cons
1) "Fake" aggregated 2.5Gbps plan with GPON ONR (each ONR LAN port is up to 1Gbps download/upload speed, total speed across all connections: up to 2.5Gbps downalod and 1.25Gbps upload. It is impossible to bridged the ONR
2) No IPv6 support (to be confirmed)
3) You have to use your own router in bridged mode (AP mode) to avoid Double NAT. Or you have to live with some limitations of Double NAT if you want to use your own router in router mode
4) The GPON ONR may have limited features compared to a typical consumer router (let alone better grade routers).

Personal Recommendations: just my personal opioion
Avoid both plans as of now.

But I were asked to choose between them no matter what, I would probably go with SIMBA, since I absolutely want to avoid ONR (I like to use my own routers to their best abilities). And I believe SIMBA may soon provide value-added service like Static IPv4 (or get working IPv6) to work-around the CGNAT issue.

For an average user, the WC ONR limitation may not mean much and WC 2.5Gbps should work as well for them. It may be more stable choice between the two and it is available now to all users whereas SIMBA is still rolling out the service.

I am currently on WC 1Gbps and recently switched the settings to bridge mode. (Used the guide to set hg8244h)

They said the 2.5Gbps is also using the same modem (ONR) so I am hoping I can continue to bridge it.

Do you know if a bridged modem will be able to provide two WAN uplinks to my modem for load balancing? (Using unifi dream machine SE)

 

[xiaofan]

I am currently on WC 1Gbps and recently switched the settings to bridge mode. (Used the guide to set hg8244h)
They said the 2.5Gbps is also using the same modem (ONR) so I am hoping I can continue to bridge it.
Do you know if a bridged modem will be able to provide two WAN uplinks to my modem for load balancing? (Using unifi dream machine SE)

By right NO as this is a single WAN single IPv4 address connection.

If you manage to bridge the WC ONR for WC 2.5Gbps plan, I believe it will become the same as 1Gbps plan with bridged ONR (or so-called ONT mode).

Same for other aggregated plan like SingTel 2Gbps and VQ 2Gbps plan, you can not bridge the ONR.

Only dual 1Gbps plan (SingTel 1+1 Gamer plan which uses a partially bridged ONR, or M1/Starhub/MyRepublic 2Gbps plan which use ONT) or dual ISP will fit your desire to use Dual WAN Load balancing.

 

[kappak]

My singtel 1+1 is not dual wan load balance.
Its dual wan aggregation with total of 180xxMbps speedtest result by using S$150+ xiaomi be7000 wireless router

 

[xiaofan]

My singtel 1+1 is not dual wan load balance.
Its dual wan aggregation with total of 180xxMbps speedtest result by using S$150+ xiaomi be7000 wireless router

You are using SingTel 2Gbps plan or Singtel 1+1 Gamer Bundle plan? They are very different.

And you are the only one in this forum to report a success of using WAN Aggregation. Not so sure if you are really using WAN Aggregation or just two connections in OOkla SpeedTest.

Supposedly WAN Aggregation will not work as the ONT/ONR from all local ISPs do not support 802.3ad LACP.

 

[kappak]

You are using SingTel 2Gbps plan or Singtel 1+1 Gamer Bundle plan? They are very different.

And you are the only one in this forum to report a success of using WAN Aggregation. Not so sure if you are really using WAN Aggregation or just two connections in OOkla SpeedTest.

Supposedly WAN Aggregation will not work as the ONT/ONR from all local ISPs do not support 802.3ad LACP.

Singtel 1+1 home priority plan come with 2x ac1900 mesh ap.
The CSO told me the ONR 4x1gb ports are enabled.then i go read faq saw the fibre uplink is 2 gbps so i go get xiaomi be7000. Dual wan(2 diff ip assigned by the ONR).

Speed test wala break 1Gbps. GPGT.
Even desktop wifi 6 2400Mbps connection can get 16xxMbps le.

 

[xiaofan]

Singtel 1+1 home priority plan come with 2x ac1900 mesh ap.
The CSO told me the ONR 4x1gb ports are enabled.then i go read faq saw the fibre uplink is 2 gbps so i go get xiaomi be7000. Dual wan(2 diff ip assigned by the ONR).
Speed test wala break 1Gbps. GPGT.
Even desktop wifi 6 2400Mbps connection can get 16xxMbps le.

I know that your SpeedTest shows similar results as those who use Dual WAN Load Balancing.

However I am not convinced that it is WAN Aggregation in your case, it could be just a feature of Xiaomi BE7000 which can use two links (like it can use MLO using two connections 5G1 and 5G2 in terms of wireless).

What are the two IPv4 addresses assigned by the SingTel ONR? Are they both private IPv4 addresses similar to Singtel 2Gbps plan (192.168.1.x)?
Or one of them is public IPv4 address and the other one private IPv4 address, like the Singtel 1+1 Gamer Bundle?

 

[kappak]

I know that your SpeedTest shows similar results as those who use Dual WAN Load Balancing.

However I am not convinced that it is WAN Aggregation in your case, it could be just a feature of Xiaomi BE7000 which can use two links (like it can use MLO using two connections 5G1 and 5G2 in terms of wireless).

What are the two IPv4 addresses assigned by the SingTel ONR? Are they both private IPv4 addresses similar to Singtel 2Gbps plan (192.168.1.x)?
Or one of them is public IPv4 address and the other one private IPv4 address, like the Singtel 1+1 Gamer Bundle?

No MLO is enable coz MLO enable will combine 2.4ghz/5Ghz/5Ghz_game triband together.only wifi6 devices are tested.i do not have wifi 7 end point devices.oh ya. Got 1:1 setting there,so is load balance?

Yes.192.168.1.5 / 192.168.1.9.

Paiseh ,silly question-load balance speed can break 2x 1Gbps lan port limitation?

 

[Pauleon]

By right NO as this is a single WAN single IPv4 address connection.

If you manage to bridge the WC ONR for WC 2.5Gbps plan, I believe it will become the same as 1Gbps plan with bridged ONR (or so-called ONT mode).

Same for other aggregated plan like SingTel 2Gbps and VQ 2Gbps plan, you can not bridge the ONR.

Only dual 1Gbps plan (SingTel 1+1 Gamer plan which uses a partially bridged ONR, or M1/Starhub/MyRepublic 2Gbps plan which use ONT) or dual ISP will fit your desire to use Dual WAN Load balancing.

icic
the 2Gbps plans that have ONT - won't it be similar to a bridged Huawei router from Whizcomms?
i can understand dual ISP so there are two public IPs so you can also do fail safe mode.. but if single public IP from those aggregated plans .. can still do dual WAN load balancing?

 

[xiaofan]

No MLO is enable coz MLO enable will combine 2.4ghz/5Ghz/5Ghz_game triband together..
Yes.192.168.1.5 / 192.168.1.9.
Paiseh ,silly question-load balance speed can break 2x 1Gbps lan port limitation?

Yes, Dual WAN Load balancing can reach about 1.8Gbps with wired connection when using OOkla SpeedTest.

As for your case, apparently your plan is similar to SingTel 2Gbps plan as you get two private IPv4 addresses in the same network segment (192.168.1.x) and Dual WAN Load Balancing will for sure not working.

But I have no idea why your Xiaomi BE7000 can work with unbridged Singtel ONR to break 1Gbps barrier. If you can, please post the screenshot from Xiaomi Web UI or mobile app UI to check if there are any mentioning of WAN Aggregation. Thanks.

 

[Pauleon]

No MLO is enable coz MLO enable will combine 2.4ghz/5Ghz/5Ghz_game triband together.only wifi6 devices are tested.i do not have wifi 7 end point devices.oh ya. Got 1:1 setting there,so is load balance?

Yes.192.168.1.5 / 192.168.1.9.

Paiseh ,silly question-load balance speed can break 2x 1Gbps lan port limitation?

those are both private IP addresses.... so means the modem is functioning as ONR?

 

[xiaofan]

icic
the 2Gbps plans that have ONT - won't it be similar to a bridged Huawei router from Whizcomms?
i can understand dual ISP so there are two public IPs so you can also do fail safe mode.. but if single public IP from those aggregated plans .. can still do dual WAN load balancing?

Dual 1Gbps plan offers two independant networks with two IPv4 addresses.

Dual 1Gbps plans M1/Starhub 2Gbps plan (using ONT) have two public IPv4 addresses. So they can use Dual WAN Load Balancing.

For Singtel 1+1 plan, the partially bridged ONR has two public IPv4 addresses as well for the two networks. The supplied RT-AX86U can work with Dual WAN Load Balancing (one public IPv4 address and one private IPv4 address because of Double NAT).

Dual 1Gbps plan from MyRepublic (using ONT) needs one static IPv4 add-on to work with Dual WAN Load Balancing (one public IPv4 and one private IPv4). If no static IPv4 add-on, both WAN IPv4 addresses will be private IPv4 addresses as MR is using CGNAT.

If WC were to offer dual 1Gbps plan using ONR, like Singtel 1+1 Gamer bundle plan, then Dual WAN Load Balancing would work. But they do not.

For aggregated 2Gbps/2.5Gbps plan, Dual WAN Load Balancing will not work as there is single network.
(Edit: however, this may not be correct, as shown in the screenshots from kappak in the next page, Post #22)