Confused!!

Solution9

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Hi guys, I have read a quite a few threads and actually am needing myself so would like some advise from professionals. I am deciding to make a major career switch from engineering to financial industry(25 this year). Now I have 2 options at hand. I wanna go into the frontline (sales) because at least I believe that how hard you work (effort) determines how far the rewards can be determined. As compared to my previous job as a engineer getting a fixed pay monthly working non stop.

1. Banks offered me a roles in the frontline to do sales (you can call it Personal Banking Associate/PFC)

2. Join my friend who is doing quite well in the insurance industry(in fact very well after I heard alot of experiences and stories from him/his agency)

My aim at the end of the day is wanna achieve certain targets by certain age, and at the same time to learn and meet a lot of new people/help them in terms of financial guidance.

Would be glad if to hear from you guys. Thanks thanks thanks. !
 

archcherub

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Hi guys, I have read a quite a few threads and actually am needing myself so would like some advise from professionals. I am deciding to make a major career switch from engineering to financial industry(25 this year). Now I have 2 options at hand. I wanna go into the frontline (sales) because at least I believe that how hard you work (effort) determines how far the rewards can be determined. As compared to my previous job as a engineer getting a fixed pay monthly working non stop.

1. Banks offered me a roles in the frontline to do sales (you can call it Personal Banking Associate/PFC)

2. Join my friend who is doing quite well in the insurance industry(in fact very well after I heard alot of experiences and stories from him/his agency)

My aim at the end of the day is wanna achieve certain targets by certain age, and at the same time to learn and meet a lot of new people/help them in terms of financial guidance.

Would be glad if to hear from you guys. Thanks thanks thanks. !


u only know how to do sales in the insurance industry.
not supporting the banks.. but it is the lesser evils.

ive a background in insurance, and i try my best now not to mix around with insurance advisers, because all they want to do is to sell. sell. sell.
its their mindsets.
 

Solution9

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u only know how to do sales in the insurance industry.
not supporting the banks.. but it is the lesser evils.

ive a background in insurance, and i try my best now not to mix around with insurance advisers, because all they want to do is to sell. sell. sell.
its their mindsets.

oh, but isn't both insurance and bankers do also sell sell sell?
 

wahkao3

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engineer also can do sales mah
like sales engineer
they pay transport allowance for your car too!
 

lousylah

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No.1 - you sit in a branch, given a direct line and namecards, you will have a low basic. branch manager sets you targets and put under pressure if not met in 3-6mths (most will quit within this period). you will be mainly selling insurance (most commission) but also need to assist on things like account opening, FD, etc that earns you nothing.

No.2 - no basic, you have to pay for namecards and drinks/food (starbucks, macs, etc) when prospecting. you have to pay to be part of roadshows/mall events/etc. you get 50% commission on what you sell (more than the personal banker i guess) and flexi-hours besides sales meetings your agency/manager will arrange.

in the end you sell the same product (insurance), just different channel (bancassurance vs direct sale). note that commission structure is likely to change soon (2015).

Other options you may consider

No.3 - if you really want to be in banking, try to find your way in corporate banking. maybe start with SME banking. banks appreciate your ability in maths from your engineering background. you will be a real banker selling real bank products like trade finance, cash management and FX. you should get a decent basic and depends on your bank, perhaps a nice bonus. in this role you will meet treasurers, finance managers, CFO, CEO and build your network.

No.4 - you are from engineering background, do not let it go to waste. consider industrial sales (i.e. sales engineer) where you sell parts, equipment, supplies for construction and engineering fields. can be hugely rewarding (i.e. can make as much or more than insurance agent/personal banker). from that background/experience/network you might even be able to start your own small business (buying/selling industrial goods/supplies). thats how most SMEs (that you will come across in No.3) start. be your own boss and call the shorts.

in no.3 and no.4 you are part of and contributing to the real economy (value-adding) rather than taking money from ppl and promising to pay them when they are in trouble (dead or near-death).

your choice and your career, do not let money be the only deciding factor. for no.2 you do have plenty of room for work/life balance but your income will be unstable. for the rest you will be part of "a machine" and hope to climb the ladder. good luck!
 

Solution9

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No.1 - you sit in a branch, given a direct line and namecards, you will have a low basic. branch manager sets you targets and put under pressure if not met in 3-6mths (most will quit within this period). you will be mainly selling insurance (most commission) but also need to assist on things like account opening, FD, etc that earns you nothing.

No.2 - no basic, you have to pay for namecards and drinks/food (starbucks, macs, etc) when prospecting. you have to pay to be part of roadshows/mall events/etc. you get 50% commission on what you sell (more than the personal banker i guess) and flexi-hours besides sales meetings your agency/manager will arrange.

in the end you sell the same product (insurance), just different channel (bancassurance vs direct sale). note that commission structure is likely to change soon (2015).

Other options you may consider

No.3 - if you really want to be in banking, try to find your way in corporate banking. maybe start with SME banking. banks appreciate your ability in maths from your engineering background. you will be a real banker selling real bank products like trade finance, cash management and FX. you should get a decent basic and depends on your bank, perhaps a nice bonus. in this role you will meet treasurers, finance managers, CFO, CEO and build your network.

No.4 - you are from engineering background, do not let it go to waste. consider industrial sales (i.e. sales engineer) where you sell parts, equipment, supplies for construction and engineering fields. can be hugely rewarding (i.e. can make as much or more than insurance agent/personal banker). from that background/experience/network you might even be able to start your own small business (buying/selling industrial goods/supplies). thats how most SMEs (that you will come across in No.3) start. be your own boss and call the shorts.

in no.3 and no.4 you are part of and contributing to the real economy (value-adding) rather than taking money from ppl and promising to pay them when they are in trouble (dead or near-death).

your choice and your career, do not let money be the only deciding factor. for no.2 you do have plenty of room for work/life balance but your income will be unstable. for the rest you will be part of "a machine" and hope to climb the ladder. good luck!

oh i see. but heard that in banks, their insurance is limited and wouldn't people rather be buying directly from the direct insurance company better? AKA whatever bank sells, insurance company has it (except forex, cards, etc). Whatever insurance company sells, banks has limited products. Investments product both insurance company and banks, what's the main difference actually?
 

peterchan75

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Since you are 25, can give 1 or 2 years to try out. If you don't like it, then go back to engineering. You will never know until you have hands on experience. Reflect why you want to leave engineering on the first place.;)
 

archcherub

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oh i see. but heard that in banks, their insurance is limited and wouldn't people rather be buying directly from the direct insurance company better? AKA whatever bank sells, insurance company has it (except forex, cards, etc). Whatever insurance company sells, banks has limited products. Investments product both insurance company and banks, what's the main difference actually?

u got it mistaken, whatever the insurance company sells, the bank has it.
whatever the bank sells, the insurance company may not have it.

I was once with with a mighty insurance firm. When certain partner banks launched almost similar insurance products with that company, the agents complained like hell, because there were accompanied by FD and structural products that agents cannot provided. A lot of such products were provided with discounts if purchased with the same insurance pdts u can buy from the agents. What can the agents provide? shopping or movie vouchers lor..

Agents do earn higher commission.
I consider the RM in a bank as a lesser evil, though both are still salesman..

But take advice from lousylah and take advice no.3 and no.4

Do NOT take advice from an existing insurance manager whether this career is good or not.
its like asking a toyota car salesman whether you should buy a toyota car.
What do you really expect him to tell you?

Sigh. there are perks indeed, but till now, i seriously dont think its worth it.
1) high commission
2) tons of travel perks, if u are good enough.
3) ability to plan out ur time.

but these perks are not good enough. if u want to achieve good sales, you lose a lot on your "free time". at my peak, i did not have a single rest day for a few months. you met up with tons of old "friends" because u have to. no doubt some become good friends, but many become superficial. its not good for your social life. Not good for your family life too, because of the different working hours.

lots of travels. i was totally advertised lots of travellings. i was travelling 4-5 times a year, all fully paid.
bad thing? most of the time u travel with your colleagues, people i dont really find it fun to travel with. and there are rules, conventions and restrictions that you should not break. This sucks a lot more than I can possibly write down...

after a few yrs of such travels, u learn to really hate travelling. but by then, due to agency peer pressure, you cant even reject! u cant even not accept such "freebies", imagine this "perk"....

and these trips? there are not free, in IRAS's view. you get to pay a good tax amount on it. SUCKS.

And the pay and bonus, for my age that time, i was a happy go fellow with those high incomes. but no one told me the huge amount of expenditures that I am expected for it.
and while i earn more than my friends in that period, as of today, majority of my friends have caught up with a large salary and better experience in the corporate world, while theoretically, if i had stayed, i had nothing much than sales experience.
You sell insurance, and when u get to management, u sell a career to others.
SALES.

u know what's the straw that breaks the camel back?
when on a certain day of the year, everything resets. You are back to zero. Everything you had done for the past year goes to $0. You start all over again and start qualifying for all the awards... every single level of incentive and stuff.

It is fun and exciting indeed for the 1st few years of your life. It is a senior who whined softly to me, the final straw i had,

"wah tomorrow everything back to zero again....."
 
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archcherub

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Investments product both insurance company and banks, what's the main difference actually?

Oh, the bank is capable of selling real investment products that has nothing to do with insurance.
everything the insurance company sells, has insurance element in it. nothing is free, even when the agent insists the insurance bonus that sits with the unit trusts u bought. Look at the underlying feeder funds inside, if u buy it direct from a bank or broker (IFA) u will get it cheaper without the x% whatever fee they charged.
yeah, the insurance is "free".

No.3 - if you really want to be in banking, try to find your way in corporate banking. maybe start with SME banking. banks appreciate your ability in maths from your engineering background. you will be a real banker selling real bank products like trade finance, cash management and FX. you should get a decent basic and depends on your bank, perhaps a nice bonus. in this role you will meet treasurers, finance managers, CFO, CEO and build your network.

No.4 - you are from engineering background, do not let it go to waste. consider industrial sales (i.e. sales engineer) where you sell parts, equipment, supplies for construction and engineering fields. can be hugely rewarding (i.e. can make as much or more than insurance agent/personal banker). from that background/experience/network you might even be able to start your own small business (buying/selling industrial goods/supplies). thats how most SMEs (that you will come across in No.3) start. be your own boss and call the shorts.

in no.3 and no.4 you are part of and contributing to the real economy (value-adding) rather than taking money from ppl and promising to pay them when they are in trouble (dead or near-death).

your choice and your career, do not let money be the only deciding factor. for no.2 you do have plenty of room for work/life balance but your income will be unstable. for the rest you will be part of "a machine" and hope to climb the ladder. good luck!

the more i read his advice, the more i think u shld go for his #3 and #4.
or go for other careers. dont wanna comment any further before any insurance agents here hunt me down to slaughter me.

In any case, i buy my new insurance nowadays from IFA agents. I find them more ethical with a better range of products to offer...
(because the bankers at all 3 local banks tries to sell me products that they earn most commission)
 
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w1rbelw1nd

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Well TS, I am 25 as well, but I never consider doing a sales role in a bank or insurance company, even though I have heard of people doing very well in this line and I personally have a lot of interest in personal finance.

My guess is that the training you will receive, the environment that you will be in is just sales sales sales. You will be brainwashed about the good work that you will do to clients when you push sales to them, when in fact it is those who structure the products and the actuaries that are actually value-adding to society.

Moreover, it may not make sense to join the industry when MAS is trying to get rid of the sales line for insurance through an online sales portal. Things can only get tougher for consumer banking and more so for insurance companies.

I too share your disenchantment of a 9-5 job, my plans are to farm for another 2-3 years and then join a start up. :)
 

Solution9

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wow, thanks for all the advice. I kinda make up my mind already after meeting with one of the "director" from the agency ytd. Seems to me pretty good and attractive and the emphasis on how they run like a "family" since my friend is inside. At the moment, it really overwrites my decision making as compared to a bank job.

I might just go for in the the next month after my reservists. Wish myself good luck and time to time I'll post back here to update where I'm heading currently in that line. haha well, gotta try!
 

wahkao3

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if you are interested in personal finance financial adviser is the best job for you
 

zirhk3355

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Well Solution9, I wish you good luck in your career choice indeed. However, my own advice is: Just spend 10-15mins every 6 months to come back here and re-read lousylah and archcherub posts.

Here's my story:

I am 35 this year, was a RM in DBS for a short time and then dabbled into property and insurance agencies. I filed my first millionth dollar income with IRAS before I was 30, but my savings was a pathetic 4-digit figure.

Thus, I know what the two forummers said were right. I was lucky that I managed to wake myself up in time to REALLY learn that what I was doing is not going anywhere for my career. I am not kidding - you DO NOT automatically learn about investments while working in banks and insurance agencies. All you do is sell sell sell. Forummers here will know I am just starting to learn investments from them recently.

It was then, its the same today. Last week my RM cannot even compute my cash yield from the projected yield on the fund sheet. I had to teach my broker on how silly his property investments are because his rental incomes go fully into his installments and only thru me that he realized that he is now a sitting duck waiting for interests to go up. My insurance agent just told me extended TPD rider (10 years) means the company will extend my term insurance's coverage by 10 years after 65 years old (Huh???). These are the 'quality' of the sales people in banks/insurance agencies - you do not learn the products, you do not learn how to invest, you just sell.

Though some of my friends who are still in such banks / agencies jobs are still doing better than me, both they and I know, looking at our careers' trajectories, I would be better off than any one of them in less than 5 years. But they had gone too far down the line to turn back. They cannot afford to go back to zero because their savings are still at 4-digit figure and all they have is 'sales experience'.

That's why I said I am lucky. Not many are. And therefore I think I have to be more direct than our two forummers here: I do wish you good luck indeed because you will need it.
 
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iCuteCube

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I am a Graduate Associate (Sales) at a local bank.

Some background from my side is I Graduated in Information Systems with 2nd upper honors, professional working experience in IT Project Management over 1.5 years at a global MNC. Did a few overseas project, good prospect actually.

However, I chose to leave my IT Job to try something new, since I am young (26 years old).

Even though working in a local bank, people might think it's very "atas", I believe the people who surf this forum knows more than the cover behind such job. Titles like "Bankers", will make people go WOW, but the pay check and stress you getting might not match what people assumed.

If you wanna hear my experience, we can chat over coffee at Starbucks or Coffee Bean. Think carefully what you want. I don't regret my decision, because at that point of time of career switch, I told myself to give 2 years to try finance industry. Since I am always interested in finance, sales direction.

The worse case scenario for me is to switch back to IT, but towards account management or Sales Management.

Initially I wanted to switch to a IT Sales job, but sad to say, prestigious sales role in IT they do not want people with little sales experience. And down one level is those "lower class" of sales, which is telesales which all those "foreign talent" work with you.

At that point of time, the decision I made was the best for me. Till date i did not regret. But I would strongly advice people that want to enter finance industry to think twice and review their options. It is really very tough, especially cross over from another industry and also the stress involved.
 

wahkao3

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there was this time i received a call to join finance industry. they said can get 15k per month. I dunno whether real or fake. looking back, look like fake one.

Here is the story:
===========================================

Banking and finance are aggressively hiring, no need to scared no job

The other day I received a call to join the bank as a consultant. They got my resume from jobsdb.com. Job duties are to manage customer's investments.

My resume is a engineering one. despite sending so many resumes to engineering companies, I havent got interview yet. Then this famous bank called me to join them. I say I ish only engineering experience, i know nothing about investments. They say ish ok one, they need people and they will pay good basic salary. They will provide training.


they say if I am good can easily get 15k/month.

I work in my current job, also dont have 15k/month. And I am very good at my current job

If famous banks are even calling an engineering guy like me to join them, this means there is no shortage of jobs in the banking and finance industry.

Those from banking and finance no need to scared no job.
 

zirhk3355

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wahkao3: Is that you being sarcastic again?? :p

No need to scared no job, just need to scare no pay lah!
 

archcherub

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wahkao3: Is that you being sarcastic again?? :p

No need to scared no job, just need to scare no pay lah!

Wahkao always like that.. U dunno when he is serious and when he is just trolling.
I had to read a few times to see if he is being sarcastic.
15k in banking. Sure....
 

archcherub

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Well Solution9, I wish you good luck in your career choice indeed. However, my own advice is: Just spend 10-15mins every 6 months to come back here and re-read lousylah and archcherub posts.

Here's my story:

I am 35 this year, was a RM in DBS for a short time and then dabbled into property and insurance agencies. I filed my first millionth dollar income with IRAS before I was 30, but my savings was a pathetic 4-digit figure.

Thus, I know what the two forummers said were right. I was lucky that I managed to wake myself up in time to REALLY learn that what I was doing is not going anywhere for my career. I am not kidding - you DO NOT automatically learn about investments while working in banks and insurance agencies. All you do is sell sell sell. Forummers here will know I am just starting to learn investments from them recently.

It was then, its the same today. Last week my RM cannot even compute my cash yield from the projected yield on the fund sheet. I had to teach my broker on how silly his property investments are because his rental incomes go fully into his installments and only thru me that he realized that he is now a sitting duck waiting for interests to go up. My insurance agent just told me extended TPD rider (10 years) means the company will extend my term insurance's coverage by 10 years after 65 years old (Huh???). These are the 'quality' of the sales people in banks/insurance agencies - you do not learn the products, you do not learn how to invest, you just sell.

Though some of my friends who are still in such banks / agencies jobs are still doing better than me, both they and I know, looking at our careers' trajectories, I would be better off than any one of them in less than 5 years. But they had gone too far down the line to turn back. They cannot afford to go back to zero because their savings are still at 4-digit figure and all they have is 'sales experience'.

That's why I said I am lucky. Not many are. And therefore I think I have to be more direct than our two forummers here: I do wish you good luck indeed because you will need it.

Good point. I learnt more about investment from shiny things, dividend warrior, wahkao, knight rider, apple beats, limster, henrylbh, gummybear, alexchia etc than I did in my whole career.

Good luck TS.
 
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Solution9

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Really thanks and appreciated for everyone's advice here. I know it's a tough time decision btw the "banker" and an agent. Honestly, I don't believe in insurance until I'm kinda being open nowadays and you know, being 25 now and I felt like never been achieved something significant in my life or career life, thus decided to take a leap of faith and just venture into agent. I wish to hit my goals in life and help people to the best I can. I'll just whack for the first year hard and see how it goes haha.

Ya, I'm quite active here so I will always check back. Probably even attend events or something organize by you guys. :))
 
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