[CONSOLIDATED] Israel & Palestine Hamas conflict updates [History Discussion and stirring against any religion NOT ALLOWED]

[Bam25th]

You quoted me, dedicated an entire paragraph turning my criticism of you against me unconvincingly just for the sake of it, got me so excited about the ONE source and its basically about what he and the other person said? This is your evidence "IDF admitted the war is going nowhere"? Lol. Can't you read? Defence Minister, Yoav Gallant, remains adamant Israel can achieve its objectives. Why did you say the whole IDF admitted it. Because you hastily googled that as you desperately want it to be true? Seems more likely. Reportedly Just a few generals not all of them who share that opinion - if you choose to believe it. Let alone Express.co.uk is a sensationalist tablod trash hardly considered a trusted or legitimate source. You really can't make this up.

What are u really trying to convince me of? There are many valid perspectives out there, sure, therefore I should cut you some slack and believe you even when you offered no proof? i.e. just take your word for it? That link doesn't count. Do you follow your own advice and take note of what you just did? You literally the one dismissing my proof without any valid explanation. It can be subjective only when you have proper sources to back up your claims but you failed at meeting the criteria. So you're wrong again. Your last garbled word salad doesn't convince anyone. It more accuarately describes you if you fail at your own standard.

The only thing I’m trying to convince you is that you aren’t correct. But you seemed more stubborn than I thought

So, I guess you can write better than me, but it’s not going to convince anyone either.

Your point about IDF is already so ridiculous that with or without proof, many will concur with me. It’s already July, 10 months since the invasion. What happened to swift and decisive victory?
Rather than being academic and trying to back your views with your so called sources, try observing reality and use reality to back your viewpoints


Since I’m free and since you mentioned how “excited” I am, which I aren’t, I’m going to quote you another source: https://theconversation.com/gaza-wa...-but-benjamin-netanyahu-isnt-listening-233309

But really, I failed to understand why you care so much about sources for these sort of info. Again, this is not maths and science. Your “facts” is shaped by whether you read CNN or Fox News, etc.

So, my advice to you is, try to observe actual reality and form your own perspective.

 

[cal127]

The only thing I’m trying to convince you is that you aren’t correct. But you seemed more stubborn than I thought

So, I guess you can write better than me, but it’s not going to convince anyone either.

Your point about IDF is already so ridiculous that with or without proof, many will concur with me. It’s already July, 10 months since the invasion. What happened to swift and decisive victory?
Rather than being academic and trying to back your views with your so called sources, try observing reality and use reality to back your viewpoints

Sure but explain, And feel free to engage why my earlier properly reasoned well backed up analysis makes no sense or have no value to you. I'm still waiting. I have been pushing and waiting. You don't even try to address any of those points but keep coming up these baselesss grandiose assertions and hiding behind garbled word salads that's easily called out which isn't even true.

Who concurs with you, your imaginary friends and maga buddies? So now proof doesnt matter because you deem something is ridiculous? Yet you still want me to believe you coz truth is subjective. Proof doesn't matter. Lol. I rest my case. I think everyone can observe you are trying to save some face and unwilling engage properly. I only know israel is dug in for a long war and it may be months. Again I have to ask for a source.

I'l be the first to admit I have never stepped into Crimea before. Doesn't mean my sources are untrue. Those are not tabloid sources no reason to doubt their veracity or journalistic integrity. You mean you have observed the true reality enough to debunk them? How?

 

[Bam25th]

Sure but explain, And feel free to engage why my earlier properly reasoned well backed up analysis makes no sense or have no value to you. I'm still waiting. I have been pushing and waiting. You don't even try to address any of those points but keep coming up these baselesss grandiose assertions and hiding behind garbled word salads that's easily called out which isn't even true.

Who concurs with you, your imaginary friends and maga buddies? So now proof doesnt matter because you deem something is ridiculous? Yet you still want me to believe you coz truth is subjective. Proof doesn't matter. Lol. I rest my case. I think everyone can observe you are trying to save some face and unwilling engage properly. I only know israel is dug in for a long war and it may be months. Again I have to ask for a source again.

I'l be the first to admit I have never stepped into Crimea before. Doesn't mean my sources are untrue. Those are not tabloid sources no reason to doubt their veracity or journalistic integrity. You mean you have observed the true reality enough to debunk them? How?

Properly reasoned? To who? It doesn’t seems reasonable to me.

Also, we have chatted quite a bit, so I’m not sure which point you are referring to. Haha the only point I can recall off my head is you agreeing that under Trump, the world is more peaceful

I quoted the source above already, if you haven’t read. I quote again: https://theconversation.com/gaza-wa...-but-benjamin-netanyahu-isnt-listening-233309

Plus the war cabinet was dissolved and there are many disagreements over the objectives of the war and whether it should continue or not. If that isn’t enough to justify what I’ve said about IDF, then I don’t know what is enough. At least, to me, it’s enough.

And I’m really not trying to save my own face. What’s there to save. I just find it funny how you are so adamant in thinking you are right because you thought you of your “properly reasoned well backed up analysis”. Well, the reality is, it is only so to you and your echo chamber

 

[cal127]

Properly reasoned? To who? It doesn’t seems reasonable to me.

Also, we have chatted quite a bit, so I’m not sure which point you are referring to. Haha the only point I can recall off my head is you agreeing that under Trump, the world is more peaceful

I quoted the source above already, if you haven’t read. I quote again: https://theconversation.com/gaza-wa...-but-benjamin-netanyahu-isnt-listening-233309

Plus the war cabinet was dissolved and there are many disagreements over the objectives of the war and whether it should continue or not. If that isn’t enough to justify what I’ve said about IDF, then I don’t know what is enough. At least, to me, it’s enough.

And I’m really not trying to save my own face. What’s there to save. I just find it funny how you are so adamant in thinking you are right because you thought you of your “properly reasoned well backed up analysis”. Well, the reality is, it is only so to you and your echo chamber

The point is I tried sincerely and if you disagree kindly state what is disagreeable and explain. But you don't even bother. If you wanna keep clinging onto that playbook my answer will still be the same. I don't need to repeat myself to you. You don't have to repeat something bla bla isn't the case for you. No one cares. We have seen that enough times. And I can't force you to do anything against your will.

Sorry. Just a different source focused on the endgame with another of your simplistic reinterpretation to try to turn things around to your favor. Citing one that says israel can't win doesn't mean they'll lose . Is the war really going nowhere? Don't change the subject. My earlier assertion that the IDF is more than capable of dealing with Hamas is still valid and indisputable. No one said it will be an easy ride. Your own source quoted the defence minister as saying they are confident of achieving theiir objectives. There remains schsms and disagreements on how to approach the endgame among the leaders. Also depends on what's your definition of victory. Killing every single terrorist will be almost impossible but there's no denying the campaign did lowered Hamas' military capability. Isn't that considered a success or victory of some sort? Is that going nowhere? I already said and my stand remains this is a long war and Israel is dug in. That remains true. I think you're the only one who threw another curve ball with the claim it will be a decisive victory.

As long as they can maintain the will to continue occupying and controlling Gaza and fighting a counterinsurgency campaign, the situation will reach some level of equilibrium, whereby Hamas's inflow of recruits and weapons and ammunition balances Israel's ability to destroy it. Controlling Gaza's land border and tunnels to Egypt will help. Hamas can only drag this out long enough for Israel to lose their will and leave. This is about what happened in Vietnam and Afghanistan to the US, or France in Algeria. They are counting on eroding public support and political will for a prolonged war.

Err. There's only one echo chamber that can exist. That's among empty vessels who derail and can't come up with anything constructive including their insults.

 

[Bam25th]

Sorry. Just a different source focused on the endgame with another of your simplistic reinterpretation to try to turn things around to your favor. Citing one that says israel can't win doesn't mean they'll lose . Is the war really going nowhere? Don't change the subject. My earlier assertion that the IDF is more than capable of dealing with Hamas is still valid and indisputable. No one said it will be an easy ride. Your own source quoted the defence minister as saying they are confident of achieving theiir objectives. There remains schsms and disagreements on how to approach the endgame among the leaders. Also depends on what's your definition of victory. Killing every single terrorist will be almost impossible but there's no denying the campaign did lowered Hamas' military capability. Isn't that considered a success or victory of some sort? Is that going nowhere? I already said and my stand remains this is a long war and Israel is dug in. That remains true. I think you're the only one who threw another curve ball with the claim it will be a decisive victory.

You may have misread my point, or I may not have conveyed it properly.

Either way, let me try again. What I meant to say is, if more support from USA was given to Israel, including boots on ground, victory in Gaza might have been achieved much quicker.


Whether IDF will lose, or any of the yardsticks mentioned by either of us, is our own subjective interpretation. To me, IDF had already “lost”, cause they have yet to kill Sinwar, only rescued a handful of hostages, lost international public support, etc etc. Even if they eventually manage to kill Sinwar, and rescue all remaining hostages, i will still considered them having “lost”. But all these subjective opinions are just mine, and there is little use to try to justify them, so hence I didn’t. And this opinion is used to explain why I think IDF isn’t more than capable of handling Hamas, because they have failed my expectations of them. Is my expectations of them justified? To some, yes, to others and maybe you, no. But that doesn’t change anything, cause I’m just stating my opinion.

But, what I hoped is less contentious is still the point I stated on American boots on ground, or in this case, the lack of. And returning back to the topic, that is what I feel is the difference in approach between Biden and Trump. Or at least that’s what I believe Trump will do if he were the president, but we won’t know.

 

[cal127]

You may have misread my point, or I may not have conveyed it properly.

Either way, let me try again. What I meant to say is, if more support from USA was given to Israel, including boots on ground, victory in Gaza might have been achieved much quicker.


Whether IDF will lose, or any of the yardsticks mentioned by either of us, is our own subjective interpretation. To me, IDF had already “lost”, cause they have yet to kill Sinwar, only rescued a handful of hostages, lost international public support, etc etc. Even if they eventually manage to kill Sinwar, and rescue all remaining hostages, i will still considered them having “lost”. But all these subjective opinions are just mine, and there is little use to try to justify them, so hence I didn’t. And this opinion is used to explain why I think IDF isn’t more than capable of handling Hamas, because they have failed my expectations of them. Is my expectations of them justified? To some, yes, to others and maybe you, no. But that doesn’t change anything, cause I’m just stating my opinion.

But, what I hoped is less contentious is still the point I stated on American boots on ground, or in this case, the lack of. And returning back to the topic, that is what I feel is the difference in approach between Biden and Trump. Or at least that’s what I believe Trump will do if he were the president, but we won’t know.

You are allowed to change or have a different opinion which is fine. But don't say I may have misread your point. There was no confusion on my part.

Let me get this straight. You wish to contrain the definition of an IDF victory as nothing less than killing of Sinwar. Why is there little use to justify it when your rationale will go a long way in greater depth to help us understand why its important and justify the IDF failed. You don't even think its necessary to explain it? You are basically telling us to just accept it. So in that case can your opinion still be valid? Sadly no. Especially if that's your one and only cue. If you don't explain, what basis do you have to claim your expectations can be justified to some? In what way? Sure, if you insist that's your opinion but it won't convince anyone which is right back where we started.

You hope. You make it sound like "boots on the ground" is something willynilly that any president can commit. There's a War Powers Resolution that's intended to check on the president through congress. Trump will need to address a joint session of Congress and asks both houses to declare war. Any reason for your optimism it will get passed? Why would you even think President Trump is willing to commit troops just to terminate Sinwar in the first place?

 

[Bam25th]

You are allowed to change or have a different opinion which is fine. But don't say I may have misread your point. There was no confusion on my part.

Let me get this straight. You wish to contrain the definition of an IDF victory as nothing less than killing of Sinwar. Why is there little use to justify it when your rationale will go a long way in greater depth to help us understand why its important and justify the IDF failed. You don't even think its necessary to explain it? You are basically telling us to just accept it. So in that case can your opinion still be valid? Sadly no. Especially if that's your one and only cue. If you don't explain, what basis do you have to claim your expectations can be justified to some? In what way? Sure, if you insist that's your opinion but it won't convince anyone which is right back where we started.

You hope. You make it sound like "boots on the ground" is something willynilly that any president can commit. There's a War Powers Resolution that's intended to check on the president through congress. Trump will need to address a joint session of Congress and asks both houses to declare war. Any reason for your optimism it will get passed? Why would you even think President Trump is willing to commit troops just to terminate Sinwar in the first place?

I don’t understand why I have to justify my opinion. Do I need to justify why I like the colour blue?

But since you asked for it, I will give you some justifications. First, Sinwar is the mastermind, and eliminating or capturing him is necessary. In case you ask why, it’s the same reason as why capturing or killing Osama is deemed necessarily. If you want to pursue further down why I think they are equivalent, well, I’ve no further answer.

There are many justifications and reasons, both explicit, implicit, subconscious, etc etc. To force a justification for an opinion, to me, is meaningless. When someone share an opinion, I take it at face value. And when I share an opinion, I don’t give justifications. Even when I do, it may not be what I truly feel subconsciously. Maybe I’m not as eloquent as you. And I don’t expect others to be eloquent as well. And I’m not trying to convince you or anyone to share the same opinion as me, just as how you have failed to convince me to share the same opinion as you.

In fact, I thought it’s childish to keep using sources to justify opinions. Forming an opinion, then using sources which states the opinions of others, just means there are now a group of ppl with similar opinions. But those are still just opinions.

I’ve listed down the facts, which is Sinwar still alive, hostages not rescued, UN resolutions against Israel, 10 months passed. My opinion that IDF failed is derived from these facts.

So, how about you try justify what is an IDF victory to you? I will be amazed if you can convince me that IDF is doing a good job, taking into consideration these few facts.


Again with the boots on ground and asking for reasons for my optimism. You really have a thing for justifications! How about you give justifications for why you think it will not be passed? Or are you going to use the “since you brought it up, you ought to give justifications” against me?

Here I was being sincere in sharing opinions, but somehow I get the feeling of being trolled by you and your incessant request for justifications

Haha soon you will be asking me to justify why 1+1=2 lol. Should I still entertain?

 

[saint_sg]

 

[duatiaoloh]

​

Defence Minister Ng Eng Hen (left) speaking at the Aspen Security Forum in Colorado in the US on July 17.




SINGAPORE – The West’s role in the Gaza conflict has incensed the young in many countries around the world, and not just Muslims, Singapore’s Defence Minister Ng Eng Hen said at a security forum in the United States.
It risks radicalising another generation of would-be terrorists in Gaza and elsewhere, he added, pointing out that America also risks losing political support across the world.
Dr Ng made these comments on July 17 at the Aspen Security Forum in Colorado, during a chat with Foreign Policy magazine’s editor-in-chief Ravi Agarwal.
The Defence Minister was responding to a question about what the mood was like among Muslims in Singapore and its neighbouring countries over the war in Gaza.
Dr Ng also touched on US-China relations and China’s actions in Asia, where he called Chinese assertiveness in the South China Sea “bad foreign policy”, and said the country will have to find a way to undo it.
The Aspen Security Forum is a national security and foreign policy conference for professionals and officials in these fields.

Anger over Gaza​

On the ongoing conflict in Gaza, Dr Ng was asked about the mood among Muslims in Singapore, Malaysia, and Indonesia in relation to the West’s role in it.





He used one word to describe the mood – “anger”.
He added that the anger was not confined to only Muslims, and was also prevalent among the young in many countries, including Singapore, who are particularly incensed about the violence and the fact that nothing seems to be done to stop it.
And he warned that the US could lose political support along with some of its soft power in the world because of this.

The anger among the young towards the situation in the Middle East is difficult for countries to address, whether they had Muslim populations or not, said the minister.
One of the effects of this is that it would likely have radicalised another generation of would-be terrorists in Gaza and elsewhere, he said.
As an example, he pointed to the July 15 announcement by the Internal Security Department that two people in Singapore, including a 14-year-old boy, were issued restriction orders after they were found to be self-radicalised.
Dr Ng added the wider issue for the Middle East is that the Gaza conflict has made it difficult for the more progressive Arab states to resume ties with Israel as they seek to balance their interest against Iran.
He noted that the Abraham Accords – bilateral agreements that the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain signed separately with Israel to normalise relations between the countries – have likely been upended as a result.

US Defence Trip
Video of highlights in this US defence trip. Everywhere in the world you go, people are more worried about the future and pay more attention to security issues than before. U.S. Department of Defense (DoD) The Aspen Institute
Posted by Ng Eng Hen on Wednesday, July 17, 2024

Bad foreign policy decision​

Asked for his observations on China and its perspective on the world and how that affects its actions, Dr Ng said a lot of how it has acted over the past three decades makes sense, given its position.
For example, the extensive building of military facilities – including airbases and harbours on the reclaimed islands in the South China Sea, which have since been used to support its military and paramilitary forces – makes perfect strategic sense.
“From their point of view, (they would have said,) ‘If I could do it, I would’, and they did”, said Dr Ng.
But he called this a bad foreign policy choice by China, even though it has allowed the Chinese to move forward their defence line several hundred kilometres forward of its land borders, despite an international arbitral tribunal ruling that China could not claim any territory or waters beyond some of its geographical features.
The 2016 ruling was the result of a case brought by the Philippines, a rival claimant to the ownership of part of the islands and reefs of the South China Sea, to determine the status of the islands and features under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea.
Dr Ng also revealed that in his private conversations with the Chinese, they had said that China is not claiming all of the waters and features in the South China Sea, although this ran counter to their public pronouncements.
He was likely referring to the nine-dash line on Chinese maps of the South China Sea, which underpins China’s claim to the ownership of up to 90 per cent of the disputed waters.
“How to roll back (the claims) is something that they (China) need to deal with,” he said.

 

[wickedpuppy]

GST , Jobs , BTO , Marriage , TFR , Infant Milk Price , WC , AWARE , Skillfuture or even tray return ...

Plenty of issues here... but go talk about other people issues...

Hiaz...

India In Our Mind
Gaza In Our Mind

Anyone in Govt has Singapore in their minds ??

It's like playing CS while talking to gf on the phone and having Maggie Mee at the same time..

Pls ... pls ... focus on one thing... meditate ... breathe in breathe out...

 

[Pyromaster]

Really meh? He go interview pre school children to find out ah

 

[dambio]

Watever, youngsters not happy then shld go help them

 

[Sillyporeboy]

Can ownself settle ownself first (why NS only men need serve while women gets a free ride?) before putting nose up someone elses arse and sniffing around their business?

 

[mryongtan]

GST , Jobs , BTO , Marriage , TFR , Infant Milk Price , WC , AWARE , Skillfuture or even tray return ...

Plenty of issues here... but go talk about other people issues...

Hiaz...

India In Our Mind
Gaza In Our Mind

Anyone in Govt has Singapore in their minds ??

It's like playing CS while talking to gf on the phone and having Maggie Mee at the same time..

Pls ... pls ... focus on one thing... meditate ... breathe in breathe out...

just a red herring.

 

[fortunehunter]

Who cares actually.
I more worry for my food on my table than this conflict that not related to me.

 

[sacrificium]

What nonsense is he talking about. We are more concerned about cost of living. And about inflationary policies that make us so miserable.

Who really cares about Hamas and Israel? You think tell them don’t fight then they will stop fighting?

 

[pokipoki08]

Wars are fought over resources and profits
Emotions have very little to do with it
How much does it cost to deploy enough to ensure a victory?

Only those who are forced to fight, flee and protest (bystanders), ARE EMOTIONAL

Of course, those who profit from wars and sanctions are emotional

Those who are versed in history will know, wars mean money grabbing time, including gold.

Anyone with the bigger fist can take anything, including ones life.

These emotional group are greatly deluded and plays into the hands of the masterminds.

Why don't they publish and show who profits and how much? Instead of showing the casualties.

 

[messidona]

at least their soccer team qualified for asian cup

 

[Zinna]

Many EDMWers are not among the 'young' population he is referring to

 

[XuishX]

War had always been started by the old to kill the young.