Corporate Bonds versus REITs

OngHuatHuat

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What is your take on this?

USA corporate bonds or Singapore corporate bonds or Reits?

Where can i find information about USA corporate bonds? Thanks!
 

BBCWatcher

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What is your take on this?
There's really no direct comparison. They're different investment vehicles, and they all have potential roles to play.

USA corporate bonds
Like most other U.S. financial things, it's a comparatively huge market with associated cost efficiencies and tremendous variety. You can buy individual bonds (if you can meet the minimums) and all sorts of bond funds across a wide spectrum of bond ratings, maturities, and industries. These corporates are often extremely multinational. McDonald's, for example, collects about two thirds of its revenues from outside the United States, last I checked -- and the U.S. is a big chunk of the world all by itself. So a McDonald's corporate bond isn't really a U.S. play but rather a very multinational company's promise to pay some stream of U.S. dollars. These bonds are U.S. dollar denominated, of course. Unlike equities (which track underlying businesses), bonds are promises to pay particular, specific streams of currency. If the business doubles its profits year over year, bondholders get no bonus. So there is some legitimate currency risk if you care mostly or completely about supporting your future consumption in some other currency, such as Singapore dollars. As with all three of these vehicles, there is some principal risk. The least principal risk among the three would be available in a high quality U.S. bond fund, excluding currency risk.

Singapore corporate bonds
A much, much narrower market -- microscopic in comparison, really -- with less diversity across industries. Yields net of costs are broadly lower, as YYhwin noted. Personally I'm not that interested in these, except in their proper, natural percentage within a low cost global bond index fund, and given the bond-like nature of CPF SA funds that I prefer to hold over Singapore corporate bonds. Singapore government bonds are also pretty attractive nowadays.

I might get more interested if high quality global multinationals start to issue Singapore dollar denominated bonds. But then those yields will be pretty low, in all likelihood, so probably not.

Younger investors saving for retirement should start off with a low percentage allocated to bonds and gradually raise that percentage as retirement approaches.

You're effectively or actually buying a small fraction of real properties. REITs are available individually, in many countries, and in both passively (index) and actively managed fund aggregates. There are country-specific, regional, and global REIT funds. A REIT in Singapore would pay out in Singapore dollars. The principal risk would be among the highest of the options in this particular list. Real estate in Singapore could go pear shaped, easily. It has before. So it's a very narrow bet, to be sure.

Many investors in Singapore are already over-exposed to real estate. However, if you aren't, I wouldn't quibble too much if you want to allocate up to about 10% maximum in REITs. I prefer a particular low cost global REIT index fund. I dollar cost average into that fund, in a small percentage compared to my total allocations. Real estate is only one industry, with nothing particularly magical or special about it. So I'll take a small piece of that action but only that.
 

OngHuatHuat

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Reits carry stock market risk.
I am thinking of buying higher yield but higher risk perpetual bonds and make use of the proceeds to do high risk trading.
Anyway, I have very limited experience in bond trading. I owned olam 6.75 % bond before, sold it with a handsome profit + interest.
Currently looking for more stable streams of income as my capital size grows and other assets are bringing me cash flows.
My active income not that high in the sense that sometimes it can be low sometimes it can be high, that's why I am cracking my head everyday to make sure my current model sustainable
 

crossfitter

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Reits carry stock market risk.
I am thinking of buying higher yield but higher risk perpetual bonds and make use of the proceeds to do high risk trading.
Anyway, I have very limited experience in bond trading. I owned olam 6.75 % bond before, sold it with a handsome profit + interest.
Currently looking for more stable streams of income as my capital size grows and other assets are bringing me cash flows.
My active income not that high in the sense that sometimes it can be low sometimes it can be high, that's why I am cracking my head everyday to make sure my current model sustainable

Correct me if I am wrong but you probably bought bonds as the interest rate cycle is on a downward cycle so the price of your bonds increased as interest rates go down. Now maybe a bad time to enter into the bond market as its projected that interest rates will increase in the future (which may not happen looking at the current slowdown of the US economy in Q1)

If you hold onto to bonds till maturity, you are not subjected to price flatuations from interest rate movements so all is good but if you want to trade on the potential upside in bond price, it may not be a good time to enter the market.
 

OngHuatHuat

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Actually from what I observed so far, the bond market has recovered strongly too since early of the year. Maybe perhaps it is very close to coupon payment date now.



Correct me if I am wrong but you probably bought bonds as the interest rate cycle is on a downward cycle so the price of your bonds increased as interest rates go down. Now maybe a bad time to enter into the bond market as its projected that interest rates will increase in the future (which may not happen looking at the current slowdown of the US economy in Q1)

If you hold onto to bonds till maturity, you are not subjected to price flatuations from interest rate movements so all is good but if you want to trade on the potential upside in bond price, it may not be a good time to enter the market.
 

w1rbelw1nd

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Price would have adjusted for market expectations. Doesn't mean that pending IR increase means bond purchase at s lower price which factors this risk is unattractive. We should not think that we are smarter than the market.

Correct me if I am wrong but you probably bought bonds as the interest rate cycle is on a downward cycle so the price of your bonds increased as interest rates go down. Now maybe a bad time to enter into the bond market as its projected that interest rates will increase in the future (which may not happen looking at the current slowdown of the US economy in Q1)

If you hold onto to bonds till maturity, you are not subjected to price flatuations from interest rate movements so all is good but if you want to trade on the potential upside in bond price, it may not be a good time to enter the market.
 

OngHuatHuat

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I think I overestimated the effect of rate hike last time.

Price would have adjusted for market expectations. Doesn't mean that pending IR increase means bond purchase at s lower price which factors this risk is unattractive. We should not think that we are smarter than the market.
 

Jarlaxle

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crowdlending can consider since u want higher return frm lending.
 
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